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Expression pedal as MIDI device?
Dear all,
I have an M-AUDIO MIDI KEYBOARD KEYSTATION 61-key
currently, I connect it to my BEHRINGER 404 UMC HD interface via midi.
USB lead then runs from the Interface, into a USB-B port on a usb-c multi port adaptor/hub > into the usb-c on iPad Pro.
💡 Now, I want to introduce an expression pedal to control my playing.
My BEHRINGER interface has no more free midi in ports (only a spare/unused MIDI OUT port). The usb is also occupied.
💡 The usb-c hub (connected to iPad) has unused USB-B ports on it.
ℹ️ --I've read that it's possible to use expression pedals as MIDI controllers...
❔ would it be possible therefore, to connect an expression pedal, which has a TRS port on it, .. to have a TRS to USB lead
(as seen in the link), have that connected to the usb port on the hub, and have the iPad use it as a midi controller?
🤔 💭
Be greatful to learn what the community thinks!
Kind regards, Phil.
Comments
Hello.Shortly: I use something like Spy (only channel 1), and beatbars to translate Expression Pedal to MIDI. That's what I do with my 2 Expr pedals. Sorry, cannot write more now. All connected to powered USB powered hub. This hub is central fo all the stuff.
@SkillipEvolver ; you need a device that converts thx expression pedal to MIDI (its TRS connector is not midi). Many Bluetooth footswitches (irig blueboard , m-vave chocolate) have expression pedal inputs that they convert to midi. There are standalone converters but they are more expensive than the footswitches from what I have seen.
No, you can't just get a TRS to USB lead and have the expression pedal work as a midi controller. It needs to be plugged into something that can translate the electrical signal into midi messages.
You could plug a sustain pedal into the keyboard and use the CC 64 on/off sent from it for switches, but not for expression.
You could consider getting something like a iRig Blueboard or M-Vave Chocolate that has an expression pedal input and can connect via Bluetooth. Or the BeatBars device mentioned above. The price is more than something like the M-Vave and you'd get foot switches to boot.
Hi guys,
Right okay. Okay that confirms my understanding thanks.
(basically, the requirement for some device to convert expression into midi).
I've had a look at the irig, and the M-Wave. Both seem like decent options with pros and cons.
I think that the build quality of the M-Wave (metal) seems a bit more appealing compared to the iRig. Though I do respect iRig! (I had one of they're guitar to 3.5mm input adaptors back in my early iPad days!)
Seems like Bluetooth is a common way to go with this setup .
Charging:
Quick question about the M-Wave.
So this device uses a lithium battery, 2.5hrs to charge 👍🏻.
--there is a usb-c port on the back of it.. I take it this is how device gets charged? (I can't see it explicitly stated on the product page):
https://amzn.eu/d/8FRZEE4
(whereas, the iRig uses 4x rechargeable AA batt)
At £30, this seems really appealing to me, given that I already have the expr pedal.
I'm initially looking to use this with KoalaFX app, to introduce changes while I play 🎹
The M-Vave Chocolate sounds like a good solution for you. Just throwing a couple more expensive options out there; these are devices that serve single purpose of converting analog pedal signals to midi messages. I have the Tecontrol one, which is fine but seems a little fragile:
https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php
https://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-pedal-controller
Yes, the M-vave usb port is used for charging. It can also be used to connect the device rather than Bluetooth, a possible plus, especially for performing. The iRig manual says explicitly not to use rechargeable batteries, though I’ve read of people doing it anyway with no negative result.
The m-vave switches are clicky. I like that, but lots of people do not. The switches are highly configurable through an iOS native app. You can even program them to send different messages on long-press, and also to send multiple messages. The build is sturdy. I would be a little concerned about it ending up on its side if (actually when) accidentally kicked on stage. That wouldn’t be a worry with the shape of the Blueboard.
Lights on the Blueboard could be helpful. It has two expression/sustain pedal jacks rather than the single jack on the m-vave. The switches are quiet, but a little mushy for my taste. The switches and pedals configuration is limited. You can choose between sending fixed notes or CCs at power on time. You can do more with the dedicated Blueboard app running, but no way would I ever want to go that route.
Overall I prefer the m-vave.
I have used good quality rechargeables in a blueboard for years. The warning is because old school rechargeables didn’t store much charge and had a depletion curve that would make them u reliable for this sort of application,
I tried it just now and the damn thing exploded and took off my right foot. Then my house burned down with me in it. ymmv.
@SkillipEvolver . I notice that your keyboard has a Sustain pedal input. One of my KBs has an input that accepts either a sustain or expression pedal. You could check whether yours is similar.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Yes, I had read that sustain and expression ports are not usually interchangeable, so I ended up going down this road.
But you never know.. it might work? I can give it a try when my expression pedal arrives. 👍🏻 Love this idea.
—-one thought however, if that does work, it would no longer be acting as midi as far as the iPad is concerned, would it?
Therefore I would not be able to use it to control effects within the KoalaFX app.
If you’re not familiar with Koala, it’s pretty great. The UI gives you 8 sliders, 0-127, each of them are an effect (dub, reverb, bitcrush). So I was planning to map 1 (or a few) effects to the be triggered by the expression pedal.
i think the sustain input is a momentary function so will not work with expression.
Some Arturia keyboards (yes, even the small MiniLab MK3) have dual function inputs that work both with footswitches and most expression pedals.
Hmmm, hoping for an updated Keystep 37 with such inputs and more hands-on controls now 😄
not to go off topic too much but a massive spoiler was the push 3 inputs were supposed to accept both sustain and expression in per the manual. Expression in doesn't work!!! hopefully they can fix this as it should work i believe due to the design.
The blueboard handles either sustain pedals or expression pedals…so dual-use ports not exotic.
@SkillipEvolver . Yes, that port on your keyboard will generate MIDI. The input doesn't just disappear inside the keyboard, it's converted to MIDI, same as the Pitch Bend and Mod Wheel. For Sustain, it will generate CC64, for Expression it would likely generate CC9.
Greetings everyone.
Since this post was on the topic of expression pedals, rather than make a new post, thought I'd just ask here:
Thx.
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/wah-pedal/id6444608537
Here’s a dedicated device for what you’re looking for. $59 for one, which is a little pricy for a single function device. I’ve been thinking about getting their Quattro version for a dedicated CC controller for the OP-1.
https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php
@ksound look at the doremidi store, less than 70 bucks for 4 inputs. They also do midi merge boxes and all kinds of things
Blamsoft's free F16 filter sounds quite good as a Wah effect
i have one of these and it works great.! plug and play. i use it all the time with my expression pedal
I’ve been on the fence about getting the single or quattro for years! Want this for my desktop setup for controlling delay feedbacks while I track guitar etc and also for Omnisphere and synths while I’m playing live or tracking a part. maybe this thread will get me to pony up. I think you can setup multiple destinations for a single pedal right? At least I can use Ableton to do it if not
yeah, basically the pedal will send a midi cc into abelton, and you can assign it
to anything you want. especially in abelton live. just map it to any knob or button or parameter you want or multiple things. and your all set
Dear all,
🙏🏻Thanks for all the input on this topic of expression pedal..
after some time away, I just purchased a cheap (£13!) m-audio expr pedal. -to be fair, the Amazon reviews are unanimously positive.
🎹Unfortunately though, with my M-AUDIO 69-key midi keyboard.. I plug it into the sustain port (only option).
🔢 I can see the values changing on the LCD (on keyboard) telling me it's seeing the pedal... But the result is either on or off (ie, this combo of pedal and keyboard (through sustain port) will not work as expression. Bit of a shame.
ℹ️ Interestingly, I noticed even though the LCD values change (I also see the same in MidiWrench app on iPad)... it still won't function (even as sustain)...
🎛️ Lastly, there is a switch underneath to flick btwn M-AUDIO < and > OTHER
-but in OTHER, it failed to register at all. 😕
--it looks like I might need to get myself the M-WAVE CHOCOLATE ultimately.
💡(which was the suggestion from some of you good folks, 6 months ago
Fair enough!
ℹ️ i've seen YouTube tuts where folk are using high quality audio interfaces (which sometimes have expression ports on them).
-my Behringer UMC 404-HD however does not.
Shame, but yeah, looks like I might need the Chocolate ultimately..
It should function as Sustain. You might want to send the output from the keyboard to a midi monitor, then move the pedal to see what values (if any) are coming from the keyboard when you move the pedal. It should send MIDI CC 64 with value zero when off and 127 when on. If you're seeing values, but not seeing 0 and 127, then check the knob on the left hand side of the pedal to see if it's set to full range. That knob lets you limit the range of the output, and has caught me out once before.
If you don't see any output, that's odd.
Yes, get the Chocolate, and it'll be worth it since it seems to be a stable device. Also, regarding the m-audio pedal (I have it as well) check this page out for some great info on it: http://blackaddr.com/expression-pedal-repair-and-mod/
Hi guys,
Just trying to clarify compatibility. (so that anyone else who reads this will know)..
I just tested:
But unfortunately, could not get it to act as proper expression pedal (despite suggestions that it may work).
..but this made no difference unfortunately.
Readings on the LCD are 0, then 127 when pedal is fully pushed (which is fine). But basically, conclusion:
ℹ️ M-AUDIO expr pedal + AKAI MPK Mini 3 :
AKAI only wants to see a SUST pedal.
Evidence:
https://shorturl.at/xmvXf
Thanks a lot mate, looking forward to getting the Chocolate tonight!
Hi all,
Got my chocolate through today.
Just checking it connects ok...
I connected it to my hub.
(which is connected to the iPad with usb-c).
(It was mentioned that this can be connected to iPad via cable, forgoing Bluetooth).
Bluetooth light on Chocolate blinks... (it's putting out signal)
Opened up midi monitor, noticed that it's occasionally sending messages (without touching it)...
I thought this was odd, so I then made sure the Bluetooth was connected. (Settings on iPad, connect etc).
I noticed in MidiWrench, that it shows up under the name of SINCO when cabled, and FootCtrl when connected via Bluetooth.
I found that odd, but not a problem as such..
Is this normal?
I was keen to get rid of these random messages coming in.
--however, even when connected to the hub
(USB-C from Chocolate, into USB-c port on hub), AND connected to iPad via Bluetooth... Tthe messages remained.
I didn't know at this point whether it was a real problem..
So next, I tried connecting from Chocolate gadget, directly to iPad
(USB-c from gadget into USB-c port on iPad).
---nothing. Failed to pick it up. (Aggravating at this point).
To cap it all off, I wanted to check my USB-c port on the iPad... So I plugged in the standard apple charger from mains sources.. and just like shit all magic.. iPad no longer charges...
I hate to say it at this point...
But I am extremely suspicious (and quite suddenly pissed off) that this Chinese gadget has buggered the iPad USB-c charging/function 😳
I powered the ipad off and on, no change,
tried a different plug socket, no change,
the charger charges my phone no problem.
I highly suspect the problem is now the iPad 🤦🏻
No wonder apple never confidently promote musicianship with these things.. 😩
I can no longer even use my hub.. which funny enough means I can no longer use my M-AUDIO keyboard.. this day just turned to s**t. 👎🏻👎🏻
Christ sake, who would even think.. that plugging a USB-c gadget into an iPad could damage the iPad... 😡
Video from the moment before the iPad no longer accepted anything USB-c ... 😳
https://youtube.com/shorts/rGWtCe-502Y?si=M_eWnWJO7Nlt32Rj
Wow! Well, I for one will hold my thumbs for a minute and just hope that usb-c connection comes to live again. 🫰
What a bummer man.😭