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Any comprehensive DAW? - NS2 & Cubasis are kinda limiting
My most productive Hosts are usually Nanostudio2, Koala Sampler, AUM.
I want to like:
- Cubasis, but without the ability to send audio to other tracks & split signal in buses….it’s too limiting
- LK, but its not a real host, so every input/output needs to be wired manually into AUM; somehow the workflow slows down productivity
- Drambo, but its workflow is not that intuitive and quick
I’d use Nanostudio all the time for sketching songs, but it misses some more advanced routing ability & comprehensive automation, plus audio tracks (although I can partially compensate by loading Koala Sampler or BeatMaker, and most times I don’t use audio tracks).
What iOS DAW would you suggest, that has:
- sends/buses (for side-fxs, overdub, etc)
- decent sequencer & piano roll (I love Nanostudio 2)
- audio tracks
- recordable & editable automation, for instruments AND effects
- great integration of IN/OUT for audio & MIDI (to be used standalone or as AUv3)
- intuitive & fast workflow
- AUv3 support (instruments, audio FX, Midi FX)
- export & import of MIDI sequences
- Ableton Link for Start/Stop
- ideally good default synths & effects
- sidechain support
❓
Plus, ideally:
- linked clips
- various MIDI record modes (like NS)
- quantization
- scales highlighting and/or ghost notes
- no subscription business-model 😒
❓
I’m almost certain there’s no such DAW yet (I don’t expect audiotracks&automation from NS2, and I don’t see send buses coming to Cubasis anytime soon), so this is rather a rant masked as a question…
but I’m open to surprises or discussions 🙃
Comments
interestet what exsctly you are missing in NS2 in terms of routing ? Asking cause this parricular area is literally best part of whole NS - infinite amount of sends, groups, multi-levesls of grouping, you can send/receive midi/audio from/to lteeally any other track .. i can’t imagine what is missimg in NS2 in terms of routing
If you are ok with bundled plugins without availability of AUs (supports only IAA), then check FL Studio - it is most close to NS2 experience as you can get, it has decent routing (not that advanced lile NS2 though), it has even audio tracks and it is pretty stable. And it doesn’t cost much.
Bundled synths are pretty decent and FXs too.
Well… my advice is to have Roland Zenbeats on your radar. It’s a fully capable DAW as it stands now and the iOS- version 3 unlock is NOT a subscription. My gut feeling is that Roland has been focusing on the Galaxias release for desktop for some time now but with a little luck Roland Zenbeats will get some love 💕 in the coming future.
Anyway, it ticks many of your boxes and there is more to come😎.
/DMfan🇸🇪
ZB is good, unfortunstely a bit limited in terms of audio/midi routing, and there is one very major bug still unfixed - both build in sampler and audio track are killing sample transients - it removes first 5-10 ms of sample with litzle volume fade in which cannot be disabled - major bummer for percussive sounds (mostly noticeable for kick drums, they just lack transient tick when played in ZB)
Other than that, yup, pretty decent DAW too, worth to try.
I’ve set up complex interactive fx mixing scenes in AUM and then piped them into Cubasis via IAA. Not ideal though.
No mention of Logic Pro for iPad? It’s about due for a major upgrade . Another year or two down the road and it’s gonna be u touchable I think . I know there are shortcomings now though for sure
With Apple announcing new iPads on May 7th, it’s possible updates will soon follow.
https://www.apple.com/apple-events/
Yes, I note my annual Logic subscription is going to renew in June. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a significant update soon. Of course, I would also not be surprised if it’s another nine months until the next update 🤣
Haha. Both outcomes are certainly possible. Apple’s programmers seem to all turn their focus in one direction for new product or service announcements, to the exclusion of maintaining and improving existing software. And if that’s not true, it sure seems like it a lot of the time.
@Pictor wanted to know about non- subscription apps preferably, that’s why.
/DMfan🇸🇪
If you want an audio and midi clips and Timeline based workflow then it's only Logic and Zenbeats currently who are mostly full featured.
By the end of 2024 it'll be Loopy Pro though, and that's going to be the such a relief.
What iOS DAW would you suggest, that has:
sends/buses (for side-fxs, overdub, etc)
decent sequencer & piano roll (I love Nanostudio 2)- Cubasis can load any AU sequencer as a midi effect.
audio tracks-Cubasis, AEM, Auria Pro, Beatmaker 3, Zenbeats
recordable & editable automation, for instruments AND effects- Cubasis, AEM, Beatmaker 3, Zenbeats?
great integration of IN/OUT for audio & MIDI (to be used standalone or as AUv3)
intuitive & fast workflow- Cubasis, AEM, Beatmaker 3, Zenbeats
AUv3 support (instruments, audio FX, Midi FX)- Cubasis, AEM, Beatmaker 3 does not fully support midifx- without a work around, Zenbeats?
export & import of MIDI sequences- Cubasis, AEM,Beatmaker 3, Auria, Zenbeats
Ableton Link for Start/Stop- Cubasis, not sure about AEM or beatmaker since I don't need link when using a DAW don't care if they have or not.
ideally good default synths & effects- Cubasis, Beatmaker 3, AEM, Zenbeats
sidechain support- Cubasis,
❓
I liked zenbeats; never explored it much tho. I’ve read complaints about it, bugs & stability (if I recall correctly). But I’ll check it out again.
FL Studio always was my love on desktop (I never clicked much with Ableton Live).
I didn’t try it on iOS yet; but I’d rather stay without effects automation rather than without AUv3: I own too much AUs to not be able to use them in the main DAW.
About the routing of NS I am pretty satisfied as well, I wasnt sure about using that wording either 😅
I was referring to not having ways to “route” some automation (automation on patterns, effect automation editing; or even just using other audio-units to compensate).
Plus I remember some inability to add an external LFO generator a use it to drive knobs (but it might have still been related to the automation limitations already mentioned).
Just to set expectations - it's not very much like FL Studio. It does have some nice instruments that are like the classic desktop native FL Studio plugins (yay! 3xOSC 😎). It's mainly a self-contained app though. There is no AUv3 hosting and it can't run as a plugin either.
If you can´t stand the fact that Logic Pro for iPad is subsciption, you never ever will have the same amount of features and power that LP4i can offer...
Cubasis - it feels like it hasn't been improved for ages - it has been over ten years since first release, but Steinberg (Yamaha) seems to have very low priority on iPad...
Sure, we can built wonderful environments in Drambo and AUM for almost everything, but it can be a bit tedious...
So, my advice, pay 50 bucks for one year with Logic Pro, and you will not regret it.
I’ve only actually heard (good things most of the times) about it. I kinda remember I’ve discarded it and preferred Cubasis for some reason, couple years ago. But I’ll check it out better.
Yes, I avoid subscription models, with only few exceptions. Also music making is just a humble hobby, I don’t make money from it.
Also I’ve dropped MacBooks already, because I don’t resonate with Apple on many things. I compromised for music making.
But I’d rather give regular money to an independent developer or software house rather than big Apple. I know by experience how their software stays bugged for years/decades, so I’d rather finance software houses that actually listen to their niche users.
Didn’t feel attracted to LP somehow (I was fine with Koala as looper), but I gave it only a superficial look. I’ll wait for the update and explore it further.
Yes I also dropped the idea of it years ago; can’t compare with the desktop version (+ VSTs):(.
As everything related to Apple… I usually wait 1-3 years before jumping in their products.
Subscription model is a no-go, with few exceptions. In the future I want to be able to access my projects even if I don’t pay.
Yes, I was so disappointed to find out it misses send/returns buses…. since so many years
Although unlikely, I’ll consider it, thanks for the honest opinion
Cubasis unfortunately has no Send buses
Auria Pro and AEM… seems like I should inform myself more about them 🤔
I don’t know much about them.
BeatMaker 3 I have it but someone I’m not clicking with it; used it few times, for less complex things. I should study it better.
I'm not a Logic Pro subscriber - I'm just not interested in it on iPad.
But just to clarify, you can still access your projects even if you don't continue paying. You just can't modify them. You could conceivably pay one month, create a bunch of projects, skip many months, and then come back to them, only paying for another month if you needed to make changes.
I'm not sure how that works in practice - whether the projects are purely locked, or if you can still mess with them but not save changes. The point is, you don't have to pay just to revisit older projects.
If you make some exceptions for the subscription model @Pictor , let Logic be one of them. It's definitely the most comprehensive DAW on iOS. It even has Mastering Assistant, which is possibly the best AI mastering solution I've come across (and the best sounding to my ears).
That said, Logic is not my favourite environment to create music in. I also use my iPhone 14 Pro Max for creating music on the go given it has a stellar battery and 1TB storage, and so I cannot use Logic there. The award for "best creative environment" for me personally goes to Koala Sampler on my iPhone. I can sample anything into it via AUM, from oneshots, to melodic phrases, etc.
"And what about vocals" you may ask? I use Cubasis 3 to record and process those overtop any instrumental I create in Koala (or any other environment for that matter).
"So why do you recommend Logic again when you don't even seem to use it?" Oh, I use it, but for mastering my tracks. The way I figured is many AI mastering services charge a certain amount per track. Waves' AI Mastering solution costs like $6/track. It's flippin expensive. With Logic, I can master unlimited tracks for $5/month (or however much the cost is per year, although I prefer monthly as it's easier for my ADHD brain to comprehend lol). With the amount of tracks I produce in a month (at least a solid 4-5 tracks in a month, sometimes a lot more when I'm on a hot streak), I need an easy mastering solution that doesn't sound shit. (My own mastering skills are only slightly below halfway decent, lol.)
Anyways, your mileage may vary, and other forum tropes and catchphrases.
I’m considering the idea; maybe just to try for 1 month. Although I’ll probably resist to it if I can
Mine is a more hobbyist use case: I hardly “finish” songs, I’m rather experimenting and fiddling around with ideas. Because of that the mastering isn’t a priority, so that AI feature isn’t a purchasing factor (also, I’d rather improve my own mastering skills).
To me it’s important to have possibilities/flexibility with a decent UI design. NS2 is the best at spinning creativity + productivity, until you hit its limits.
Thanks @wim for the clarification; is good to know.
@DMfan Yes, thanks..I missed that
btw, FL Studio now has an AI mastering assistant as well as part of free lifetime updates:
https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/basics_new.htm
If you want to learn to master on your own, you'll probably want MagicDeathEyeStereo and Toneboosters Barricade for starters. There's also the option of Bark Filter's "Tripleband" preset. Be sure to use an LuFS meter to get your mixes to slightly above -14 LuFS.
And I love NS2 as well, but during the past year I've moved to Koala Sampler and FLSM, lol. I tried producing in NS2 for the first time in months, and I didn't care for the results. Whereas when I work with audio samples, I become inspired. In a way "printing to audio" limits my choices, and that in turn inspires more creativity.
I use AUM for most of my sampling needs (unless I'm sampling a video, in which case I use Koala).
I believe nobody has mention Audio Evolution Studio Mobile yet. Beside the features you mentioned, it is very stable (unlike abandoned Auria), lightweight and with some additional features such as audio time correction. Highly recommend it.
oh this, ok understand
Uhm ?
But you can’t control the returns from those busses or route them to another bus.
Heck not even master returns per bus in the mixer, everything gets summed up to the master output.
The art of iOS music production is juggling apps. Stick with the environment that clicks with you and allows you to be productive. Get around the “limits” with other apps. Get a sound down with other apps and bring that audio into NS2. Don’t faff around - commit to audio. You can always redo the audio, but if you hold on to the idea of being able to change everything, then you never complete a project. It is better to complete projects and start new ones. That is how we develop our unique style.
Without audio tracks?
Is NS2 really the most faff-less DAW for that style of composing? I kinda don't think so.
Loopy Pro ftw for "commit to audio" workflow if you ask me.