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R.I.P. Steve Albini: 1962-2024

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Comments

  • Damn, I saw the headlines yesterday, knew he helped make the soundtrack of my teen years, but this thread took a dark turn. Thank you @Svetlovska for all that you've done, I just can't imagine the horror of that kind of work.

  • I gave this some thought overnight. The bands he worked with were and are amazing bands and their politics were always on the leftish side of the political spectrum. The people that I have known who were attracted to these bands were and are very socially aware. From that viewpoint I don’t believe that Steve Albini would have been into anything like that. Of course, he is now not here to clarify that, but it doesn’t make sense that he would be. To say that he was would be to say that all of these artists he worked with condoned it as well which is difficult to picture. My personal thought is that he just didn’t think about the implications of putting that sort of commentary out there or show enough concern for the people that might be affected by his statements. I get the whole edgy process, but in my opinion child pornography is not really a topic you want to put out there in a manner which is open to misinterpretation.

    @Svetlovska I’m glad I have never had to personally deal with that sort of stuff to the level in which you have and I tip my hat to you for taking it on.

  • Even though I was initially saddened by the passing, I've learned so much about Albini the past day that, as I already stated, I take back my RIP and replace it with a "rot in hell". Okay, fine, so maybe Albini wasn't a pedophile afterall, but it's not "edgy" and "cool" to joke around about children being sexually abused. Albini might as well have been a pedophile sympathiser/enabler. "We all say and do crazy stuff in our 20s". Sorry, but there's no excusing pedophilia, pedophile enablers/sympathisers, and people who joke about that kind of stuff.

    And @mambonassau if you want to defend that sort of trash as "free speech", please rethink your life and core values! Don't you dare defend that as "free speech" and "just joking around". Would you like it if any of your young family members were sexually abused, only for some prick to turn around and make light of it just to be "edgy", "cool", and "punk rock"? Don't even bother explaining anything further, because you've already made your stance loud and clear.

    And I'm sorry to the mods for my strong stance on the matter, and believe me this is me trying to hold back as much as I possibly can as well as keep foul language to a minimum. I'm honestly not trying to start a flame war, but I draw a pretty hard line in the sand when it comes to this subject matter!

  • edited May 10
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  • Are you dense or something? I didn't say Albini was a pedophile. I said he was a sympathiser/enabler , which is almost just as bad as the real deal. And wow, "forgiveness, understanding, and a devotion to understanding context". How altruistic of you to give him a pass. Oh you are sure smarter than me. (sarcasm)

    Michael Jackson also did a lot of great things for charity and trying to bring about world peace. Does he also get a pass?

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  • @mambonassau said:
    JWM, Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Steve Albini wasn't. Nor was he a sympathizer in any real sense, beyond engineering a record of questionable artistic merit by a person who was famous in the noise scene (Sotos' Buyers' Market; he was in Whitehouse). You could argue that as a dumb twentysomething, Albini was an enabler in that he thought it was OK to play with horrible ideas - and thus spread them - as a kind of thoughtless provocation; I have already essentially agreed with you on that. You could even stretch the "enabler" definition to Sotos' LP, though that is more of a subjective thing and forces us to get into the "what is acceptable art?" weeds. These are all reasonable positions, though (it's worth noting) not the only defensible ones.

    I appreciate that we have different opinions on the severity of Albini's shitty, trollish writings within the scope of his entire career. I also respect your No Tolerance policy towards a person who attempted (and, let's face it, failed) to make art by playing with this particular terrible thing. I don't think I am smarter than you; at best, I think I approach life and art differently than you, and our lived experience in different landscapes, scenes, and artistic quarters factors into that.

    I stated my core values because you called them into question; not sure why you're coming at me for responding. Believe it or not, we are not as much at cross purposes as we may seem. This feels a bit like convos I have with my leftist friends where we agree on 99% of things, but the remaining 1% becomes a sort of moral crucible.

    Lol, yeah, sorry for going after your core values, but that's the only thing I'll apologise for. I guess this particular subject gets me kinda on edge, and my claws come out and my teeth bared to anyone I (mis)perceive as defending that vile crap.

  • edited May 10

    At the risk of my own edgelordery, I am going to agree with both @jwmmakerofmusic and @mambonassau, in impeccable liberal style.

    Albini was the same age as me; my politics, like his, are of the left, and were formed at the time on the same punk values. I, like him, did many questionable, dumb things in my youth. I also noted that he had never been caught with anything, except through his own commentary. I will also maintain though that the purchasers and promoters of this stuff - the enablers, as @jwmmakerofmusic has it, accurately, and as the younger Albini demonstrably sought to be on at least two occasions - are as culpable at the hard core offenders, for the well founded reasons I have already set out. Given the harm caused, the ‘reason’ for it is neither here nor there. That someone of some influence to impressionable young music fans was aspiring to make enjoying and being aroused by kiddie porn somehow ‘cool’ , whether or not a truthful insight into his personal motivation, is never going to fly with me.

    In addition to being a cop, I too at times in my life have been a journalist, post grad, and even a therapist, working with people who have experienced sexual abuse, and sexual and gender confusion. I too in my life have also done some very dumb things, (see the blood play clubs above), and have been incredibly lucky to survive them. I read the Guardian article, in fact was the person who posted it here, so I knew what his defence was, though I note the article made no reference to this aspect of his edgelording. Maybe too much of a stretch to defend…

    I guess the difference between my own youthful edgelordery and his was that mine only put me and on occasion other consenting adults at risk. And my cop spidey sense still tingles to a lot of probable cause in Angelous’ old saw, when the fundamental accounting for what turns you on is the topic under discussion.

    Anyway, the matter is, as they say, now ‘academic’, in his case at least.

    Addendum: pace @tahiche and @michael_m : and for the avoidance of doubt, I have never had a problem separating the (often flawed) human being from the (sometimes sublime) art such flawed humans make. Hell, I’m a major fan of H.P. Lovecraft, for pity’s sake, that well known racist snob… and purveyor of genius warped weirdness!

    People are damn complicated things, aren’t they?

  • edited May 10

    @mambonassau said:

    @Zerozerozero said:
    He’s certainly a purveyor through Sotos’ work, there’s no misunderstanding there, no idea if he was a collector. He’s unreliable yet if he waves it away as a joke it’s taken as true? If a friend came to me and asked if I’d like to record and sit through hours of real life child abuse testimony ( to be edgy?) I’d probably call the police rather than agree to it.
    There’s a lack of critical thinking with his history.

    Believe it or not, I agree - I'm not attracted to extremity for extremity's sake, and I wouldn't take on that project. It seems that he himself agrees with the lack of critical thinking bit. But that still doesn't make Albini a pedophile, much as people seem to crave that designation.

    I agree with you, I loved reading your posts, very well explained. I think he made terrible mistakes and took the provocative and punk thing to a dumbass extreme, and he apologized for that.
    That said, I lack the knowledge or details about the accusations. I do see how some might find these provocations unforgivable, just like it’s hard to forgive a Nazi sympathizer who hasn’t committed any crimes but still waves the svastika like an idiot.
    I see the likes of Alan Sparhawk, from Low, speaking wonders about Albini and it makes me think of this “case” was solid that wouldn’t be the case. So excuse me but I’ll do the “presumption of innocence” on this one and I’ll keep admiring Albini for all the other million things.

  • Regardless of his justifications for making those statements and the potential (and unfortunately unmeasurable) damage done by them, I do what I do with other musicians whose behavior doesn’t align with my personal moral compass - I separate the person from the music. In Albini’s case the revelations above might change my opinion of the man, but not of any music he has made.

    Hell, I mean Gary Glitter’s music was a big part of my childhood, and I’m not going to retroactively edit the soundtrack of some of my formative years because of revelations of wrongdoing at a later point.

    (Random thought - is there an equivalent of Godwin’s Law for GG’s name coming up in an internet discussion?)

  • Thanks, @Svetlovska for posting the information. It's as bad as I remembered.

    We were all young and most of us artists of some sort, but I don't know a single soul who would have thought raping babies was edgy cool, ever. Calling a sick, violent fetish ironic "art" doesn't excuse it, and might be an intellectual stretch to reconcile the cognitive dissonance.

    I don't separate the art from the artist as the world is filled with amazing art to enjoy, so why bother? If I find out someone is a sick fvck, I move on to something else, it's no big deal to me (and fuels my love of local music/writing scenes because I know the people involved). But the bands he engineered like the Breeders or PJ Harvey, etc., they aren't Steve Albini, they aren't to blame for his selfishness.

    He was often unkind, in retrospect, to the bands he worked with, so a passive-aggressive man. He called Surfer Rosa "A patchwork pinch loaf from a band who at their top dollar best are blandly entertaining college rock". He didn't like what he did, he thought hating the music and the people he worked with made him edgy and cool. His engineering skills were moderate, there's nothing for me to admire about him.

    Edgelord is a currently fashionable, romantic name for insecure a$$holes with tiny hearts, big egos, and an enormous desire for attention that overrides any ethical concerns.

  • @abf said:
    Thanks, @Svetlovska for posting the information. It's as bad as I remembered.

    We were all young and most of us artists of some sort, but I don't know a single soul who would have thought raping babies was edgy cool, ever. Calling a sick, violent fetish ironic "art" doesn't excuse it, and might be an intellectual stretch to reconcile the cognitive dissonance.

    I don't separate the art from the artist as the world is filled with amazing art to enjoy, so why bother? If I find out someone is a sick fvck, I move on to something else, it's no big deal to me (and fuels my love of local music/writing scenes because I know the people involved). But the bands he engineered like the Breeders or PJ Harvey, etc., they aren't Steve Albini, they aren't to blame for his selfishness.

    He was often unkind, in retrospect, to the bands he worked with, so a passive-aggressive man. He called Surfer Rosa "A patchwork pinch loaf from a band who at their top dollar best are blandly entertaining college rock". He didn't like what he did, he thought hating the music and the people he worked with made him edgy and cool. His engineering skills were moderate, there's nothing for me to admire about him.

    Edgelord is a currently fashionable, romantic name for insecure a$$holes with tiny hearts, big egos, and an enormous desire for attention that overrides any ethical concerns.

    I think this and @Svetlovska posts resonate the most.
    He read Sotos’ literature, he produced an album and he spoke about his work. Doesn’t seem like a brief flirtation with “transgression”, he spent many hours with this material and staunchly stood by his convicted friend in later life.
    As Svetlovska mentioned in a post, this would set alarm bells ringing in anyone one with basic training (or common sense) in this matter.
    The lack of critical thinking I mentioned in another post was in respect to his fans and people paying respect unquestionably.
    The sub text of this thread also being more about well worn subject of separating art and artist and how people go about that. Always interesting.
    I’d imagine it would be in shades but I think in cases where there are proven victims and prison sentences it would be hard to reconcile.
    The thought of blaring out Gary Glitter is something new to me.

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