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The UK general election 2024

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Comments

  • KrupaKrupa

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @sevenape said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Jeez scary that people are openly saying they’ll support a party run by people who have been prime movers in the current raft of problems we face as a nation thinking that it is in some way an act of protest. It is nothing but an act of supplication to the cynicism that those people have strived for decades to bring to our people, a very sad state of affairs indeed.

    At least consider either spoiling your ballot, or supporting the greens or another party that actually has the interests of the people at heart…

    I could say the same about any support for the greens, but I doubt we have the same thoughts on what are the problems and there causes. I however won’t call it a ‘sad state of affairs’ or ‘scary’ that you have have your own opinion and get to choose your own way, because I believe in our freedoms as individuals to choose and I believe that belittling others is a tad arrogant.

    Fair enough, but check up on the candidate you’re planning to vote for, and really think about what, and more importantly who reform represent. The policies they’re espousing are all talking points of the oil cartels and other large business interests, or simple culture war classics…

    Very patronising.

    Honestly I think those are fair points. Farage is not the everyman he portrays. Populists like him are at worst puppets of Putin and at least selfish careerists.

    When people use terms like ‘culture war classics’ or suggesting that I haven’t even thought about who I’m voting for, then I suggest that they are patronising. State your policies and ideals and I may read them with interest. State you are right or make the comments more about the voter themselves and I’m pretty sure you are here for other gains than fair minded discussion.

    I think I'm just a bit confused by your position tbh; you say you don't like their policies or trust, but you think that they're an effective protest vote. They are led by someone who's been at the heart of politics in the UK and Europe for the last two decades who's policy platform is very clear, and not much different from the incumbent. It seems to me not so much a protest vote, but a vote to continue down the road we've been on since 2015...

    I'm sorry if this seems patronising to you, but I've been politically engaged (and as I've stated fairly left wing, though I have come to appreciate the benefits of more free market organisations such as the EU) since an early age and follow this stuff very closely and it does sadden me that people are being influenced to support people who clearly just want to cause yet more strife and division within our society.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited July 2024

    Deleted

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited July 2024

    Deleted

  • oldsynthguyoldsynthguy

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    we can see that the youth may not have all the freedoms we grew up with in years to come.

    Absolutely, Brexit put paid to all that - freedom of movement in particular, but also higher cost of living, higher rents, etc.

    I don’t get the reasoning of a ‘protest’ vote for the same party that caused it though - Reform plc, formerly known as The Brexit Party? The one that even its members acknowledge is full of racists?

    To paraphrase Stewart Lee: it’s like protesting about bad hotel room service by shitting in the bed, then realising that you then have to sleep in a shitted bed.

    For me the only protest vote available would be Lib Dem, since they’re the only party sensible enough to try and reverse the damage caused by Brexit. But any reasonably left-wing/centrist party here with a chance of ousting the nasty Tory incumbent will get my vote.

  • robosardinerobosardine

    @Krupa said:

    @robosardine said:

    @Krupa said:
    Ah fair enough, if it’s immigration that worries you, I, and probably no one can help you. Good luck with all that 🤘

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Jeez scary that people are openly saying they’ll support a party run by people who have been prime movers in the current raft of problems we face as a nation thinking that it is in some way an act of protest. It is nothing but an act of supplication to the cynicism that those people have strived for decades to bring to our people, a very sad state of affairs indeed.

    At least consider either spoiling your ballot, or supporting the greens or another party that actually has the interests of the people at heart…

    I could say the same about any support for the greens, but I doubt we have the same thoughts on what are the problems and there causes. I however won’t call it a ‘sad state of affairs’ or ‘scary’ that you have have your own opinion and get to choose your own way, because I believe in our freedoms as individuals to choose and I believe that belittling others is a tad arrogant.

    Fair enough, but check up on the candidate you’re planning to vote for, and really think about what, and more importantly who reform represent. The policies they’re espousing are all talking points of the oil cartels and other large business interests, or simple culture war classics…

    Very patronising.

    If you see it that way, fair enough but I’m pretty sure I’m right…

    • yet you have still to state who you are intending to vote for - Lib Dems or Greens you mentioned as possibilities. Is there not enough difference between them for you to have made up your mind at this stage? You shouldn’t really be picking apart other peoples choices unless you are going to put up your own.

    I'll actually be voting labour this time, we've had an unpleasant and (imho compromised by corruption) dog of a tory for years and the only person who can unseat him is a pretty decent local councillor who has engaged positively with the community for the whole time I've been here. I've voted green in previous years when there was either no chance of unseating a tory, or it was a safe labour seat and wanted to register my interest. I'd much prefer a PR system of any sort, maybe a hybrid one like the Germans have where yo uget to influence the overall makeup of government, but still have a the ability to support an individual that you favour...

    I’m actually a bit of a left winger myself traditionally. There just isn’t enough specifics in that Labour manifesto and Starmer is unconvincing for me. If the Labour Party were to commit to start renationalising at least one of the public sell offs or had a concrete easily understandable plan for the redistribution of wealth or a plan for recovering money from giant companies who avoid tax or a commitment to proper support for the NHS then I might be tempted again.

    Ironically proportional representation would play right into the reform parties hands who would have a much greater representation in parliament. Farage has pledged to increase the tax threshold to £20,000 - a massive benefit to those who need that break most.

    Things are getting desperate. Consecutive Conservative and Labour governments have left us each time with a higher and higher level of national debt and a crumbling infrastructure - why would anyone be convinced that doing the same yet again would make any difference whatsoever? - especially with no coherent manifesto to believe in. Labour are asking us to vote for ‘change’ for the sake of it. You can only bang your head off a wall for so long.

    We do need change - in the entire political system. We need a disruptor. I think Reform offers that.

  • knewspeakknewspeak

    @oldsynthguy said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    we can see that the youth may not have all the freedoms we grew up with in years to come.

    Absolutely, Brexit put paid to all that - freedom of movement in particular, but also higher cost of living, higher rents, etc.

    I don’t get the reasoning of a ‘protest’ vote for the same party that caused it though - Reform plc, formerly known as The Brexit Party? The one that even its members acknowledge is full of racists?

    To paraphrase Stewart Lee: it’s like protesting about bad hotel room service by shitting in the bed, then realising that you then have to sleep in a shitted bed.

    For me the only protest vote available would be Lib Dem, since they’re the only party sensible enough to try and reverse the damage caused by Brexit. But any reasonably left-wing/centrist party here with a chance of ousting the nasty Tory incumbent will get my vote.

    I think the young should be more worried about the wars to come, the west wants to convert them to corpses, wars in Ukraine, Middle East and China are in the making. Endless war, keep voting the same way, that’s what you’ll get. Suicidal Abyss.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited July 2024

    Deleted

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited July 2024

    Deleted

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited July 2024

    Deleted

  • oldsynthguyoldsynthguy

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @robosardine said:

    @Krupa said:

    @robosardine said:

    @Krupa said:
    Ah fair enough, if it’s immigration that worries you, I, and probably no one can help you. Good luck with all that 🤘

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Jeez scary that people are openly saying they’ll support a party run by people who have been prime movers in the current raft of problems we face as a nation thinking that it is in some way an act of protest. It is nothing but an act of supplication to the cynicism that those people have strived for decades to bring to our people, a very sad state of affairs indeed.

    At least consider either spoiling your ballot, or supporting the greens or another party that actually has the interests of the people at heart…

    I could say the same about any support for the greens, but I doubt we have the same thoughts on what are the problems and there causes. I however won’t call it a ‘sad state of affairs’ or ‘scary’ that you have have your own opinion and get to choose your own way, because I believe in our freedoms as individuals to choose and I believe that belittling others is a tad arrogant.

    Fair enough, but check up on the candidate you’re planning to vote for, and really think about what, and more importantly who reform represent. The policies they’re espousing are all talking points of the oil cartels and other large business interests, or simple culture war classics…

    Very patronising.

    If you see it that way, fair enough but I’m pretty sure I’m right…

    • yet you have still to state who you are intending to vote for - Lib Dems or Greens you mentioned as possibilities. Is there not enough difference between them for you to have made up your mind at this stage? You shouldn’t really be picking apart other peoples choices unless you are going to put up your own.

    I'll actually be voting labour this time, we've had an unpleasant and (imho compromised by corruption) dog of a tory for years and the only person who can unseat him is a pretty decent local councillor who has engaged positively with the community for the whole time I've been here. I've voted green in previous years when there was either no chance of unseating a tory, or it was a safe labour seat and wanted to register my interest. I'd much prefer a PR system of any sort, maybe a hybrid one like the Germans have where yo uget to influence the overall makeup of government, but still have a the ability to support an individual that you favour...

    I’m actually a bit of a left winger myself traditionally. There just isn’t enough specifics in that Labour manifesto and Starmer is unconvincing for me. If the Labour Party were to commit to start renationalising at least one of the public sell offs or had a concrete easily understandable plan for the redistribution of wealth or a plan for recovering money from giant companies who avoid tax or a commitment to proper support for the NHS then I might be tempted again.

    Ironically proportional representation would play right into the reform parties hands who would have a much greater representation in parliament. Farage has pledged to increase the tax threshold to £20,000 - a massive benefit to those who need that break most.

    Things are getting desperate. Consecutive Conservative and Labour governments have left us each time with a higher and higher level of national debt and a crumbling infrastructure - why would anyone be convinced that doing the same yet again would make any difference whatsoever? - especially with no coherent manifesto to believe in. Labour are asking us to vote for ‘change’ for the sake of it. You can only bang your head off a wall for so long.

    We do need change - in the entire political system. We need a disruptor. I think Reform offers that.

    Agree. The only difference between the usual parties is what they promise. History shows us that they are all cut from the same cloth.

    They’re not really though, are they.

  • richardyotrichardyot

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919
    edited July 2024

    Deleted

  • GavinskiGavinski

    This thread should never have been started tbh - the forum is supposed to be about music only now. Not really sure why the thread was not shut down already. I am interested in politics, but I think the rule against discussing politics here was made for good reasons, and people should respect it.

  • KrupaKrupa
    edited July 2024

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @sevenape said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:

    @Fruitbat1919 said:

    @Krupa said:
    Jeez scary that people are openly saying they’ll support a party run by people who have been prime movers in the current raft of problems we face as a nation thinking that it is in some way an act of protest. It is nothing but an act of supplication to the cynicism that those people have strived for decades to bring to our people, a very sad state of affairs indeed.

    At least consider either spoiling your ballot, or supporting the greens or another party that actually has the interests of the people at heart…

    I could say the same about any support for the greens, but I doubt we have the same thoughts on what are the problems and there causes. I however won’t call it a ‘sad state of affairs’ or ‘scary’ that you have have your own opinion and get to choose your own way, because I believe in our freedoms as individuals to choose and I believe that belittling others is a tad arrogant.

    Fair enough, but check up on the candidate you’re planning to vote for, and really think about what, and more importantly who reform represent. The policies they’re espousing are all talking points of the oil cartels and other large business interests, or simple culture war classics…

    Very patronising.

    Honestly I think those are fair points. Farage is not the everyman he portrays. Populists like him are at worst puppets of Putin and at least selfish careerists.

    When people use terms like ‘culture war classics’ or suggesting that I haven’t even thought about who I’m voting for, then I suggest that they are patronising. State your policies and ideals and I may read them with interest. State you are right or make the comments more about the voter themselves and I’m pretty sure you are here for other gains than fair minded discussion.

    I think I'm just a bit confused by your position tbh; you say you don't like their policies or trust, but you think that they're an effective protest vote. They are led by someone who's been at the heart of politics in the UK and Europe for the last two decades who's policy platform is very clear, and not much different from the incumbent. It seems to me not so much a protest vote, but a vote to continue down the road we've been on since 2015...

    I'm sorry if this seems patronising to you, but I've been politically engaged (and as I've stated fairly left wing, though I have come to appreciate the benefits of more free market organisations such as the EU) since an early age and follow this stuff very closely and it does sadden me that people are being influenced to support people who clearly just want to cause yet more strife and division within our society.

    If you are confused, you could have inquired further using appropriate language to engage me in conversation. Let’s try this for a little to see if we can discuss why you are confused by my choices. If you ask a couple of questions that are open questions that are genuinely looking for my opinions and not the usual media style ‘gotya’ questions, then I will give you some honest and considered answers. Although they may be long and take a while, as I have lots of thoughts and sometimes have issues structuring them into written form due to a health condition.

    If you genuinely just want to be seen as ‘right’ though, may I politely suggest we just don’t waste each others time, as I’m sure we both have more important things to do, and I do mean that politely and in a friendly manner.

    While attempting not to feel patronised myself by the ‘media gotya’ thing, I’m not sure how open or closed a question you’d be happy with. Maybe why would anyone with the best interests of their country want to actively support more of the politics of division and populist lies? Or if that’s too specific maybe just simply why?

    Tbh I don’t feel that it’s a particularly complex or nuanced thing you’re advocating, but if you think you’ve got a considered point to put across please do.

  • oldsynthguyoldsynthguy

    @Fruitbat1919 said:
    Sad to see this thread that could have been discussion about the subject will just decline to meme wars and other lazy posts.

    My response was from an article in The Times: https://www.thetimes.com/article/162919ca-5e42-4594-a693-d3626f10f112?shareToken=f34fda1b860d0e65d3630269ecdb6989

    As for being a good MP for the people who vote for him in Clacton, again, from The Times:

  • SimonSimon
    edited July 2024

    What is it in Michael's ground rules that people don't understand?

    He is nice enough to let us use his Forum as an all-round music disscussion area, not just as a support forum for his apps. We shouldn't abuse that.

  • Fruitbat1919Fruitbat1919

    @Simon said:

    What is it in Michael's ground rules that people don't understand?

    He is nice enough to let us use his Forum as an all-round music disscussion area, not just as a support forum for his apps. We shouldn't abuse that.

    Actually, I didn't realise that non music related content was not allowed in the other category. My bad. That's fair and I will delete all my comments and not post in such threads again.

  • bygjohnbygjohn

    @Simon said:

    What is it in Michael's ground rules that people don't understand?

    He is nice enough to let us use his Forum as an all-round music disscussion area, not just as a support forum for his apps. We shouldn't abuse that.

    Thank you for the reminder, and apologies to Michael and the mods.

This discussion has been closed.

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