Dark truth about wireless earphones

SevenSystems

@tom_ward said:
To the point of the discussion:
RF must have an effect on living tissue. Whether it's a negative effect or not, is another question. We've only recently become highly interested in understanding the harm of microplastics, which we've been creating much longer than we've been using cellphones. It'll be interesting to see what continuing research finds. That is not an endorsement of social media "information"...I genuinely think we will learn more, beyond "does it cause cancer", and I find it interesting.

Thanks, this sums it up very well. I'm not and have never stated that RF does cause harm. I'm only stating that it could, and that it's easily avoided.

@wim said:

@SevenSystems said:
Ah I didn't mean that the field strength somehow magically increases by itself 🙂 just that the closer you move the source (in this case, earbuds) to something (in this case, the brain), the field strength at that site increases squared. i.e. move source twice as close, field strength increases 4-fold.

Does it go to infinity if embedded in the brain?

Well no, it'll never exceed the actual field strength generated by the source (BT transmitter). My whole presentation of the matter is also simplified, as I've only taken the far field into account. At the wavelength of BT (I'm assuming it uses 2.4 GHz and thus roughly 12 cm), the brain is in the near field of the earbuds and thus my simplistic inverse square law calculation doesn't neatly apply. But being in the near field definitely doesn't make things better either! Just more complex to accurately calculate.

israelite

This should be in the Hardware section. Also, unnecessary drama.

SirKen

@mjm1138 said:

@SevenSystems said:

@mjm1138 said:
We have a solid 20 years of millions of people using bluetooth headsets (remember when everyone had the little Lt. Uhuru Jawbone headsets?) and closer to 30 years with millions of people holding cell phones up to their ears. If there was a correlation with either of those activities and cancer, we would know it.

I wasn't specifically referring to cancer. How about induced currents in neurons / synapses? How about thermal effects? As far as I know, the research is "inconclusive". I know and have seen first hand that an active mobile phone can induce havoc in electronic devices nearby. Granted, the brain works on an electro-chemical basis, but still. Why take the risk when not needed?

Also, I've once taken an actual mechanical Millivoltmeter, bridged its terminals with a diode, and the actual needle moved when I started using a mobile phone nearby! Trust me, after you've once seen the RF energy from a mobile phone ACTUALLY MECHANICALLY MOVE A NEEDLE, you're traumatized 😂

Assertions like that with no evidence don’t deserve oxygen.

I don't like the tone of that.

Anyway, I'm out of this now with my pseudo-scientific BS 😂 (BTW, as there's been some conflation... I haven't sourced anything from Instagram nor would I recommend getting scientific or medical information from there. My recommendation is always: Get information from as many sources as possible (as long as they appear at least somewhat reasonable), then use your common sense to filter them!)

This thread started with a literal screenshot from Instagram. And “research is inconclusive” is another way of saying that no connection has been found, i.e. it’s just speculation, lacking evidence. An anecdote about a millivolt meter isn’t really evidence of anything. Sources of electromagnetism can mechanically move the needle of a compass. Is that bad? Human bodies are exposed to external sources of electrical energy constantly, even in the absence of technology.

You don’t like my tone. Okay. I don’t like the open sewer of disinformation and BS that social media has become, and it saddens me to see it spreading to forums like this. Again, I reference the post that started the thread. Maybe my tone is a bigger problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There was 0 disinformation in his post. I studied exactly what he described in my Intro to Microwave Theory classes. If everyone thought like you and tried to shut down debate, we would still be living in middle ages, thinking the sun rotated around the earth.

Then again, there is a reason Planck said science advances one funeral at a time.

SevenSystems

@mjm1138 said:

@SevenSystems said:

@mjm1138 said:
We have a solid 20 years of millions of people using bluetooth headsets (remember when everyone had the little Lt. Uhuru Jawbone headsets?) and closer to 30 years with millions of people holding cell phones up to their ears. If there was a correlation with either of those activities and cancer, we would know it.

I wasn't specifically referring to cancer. How about induced currents in neurons / synapses? How about thermal effects? As far as I know, the research is "inconclusive". I know and have seen first hand that an active mobile phone can induce havoc in electronic devices nearby. Granted, the brain works on an electro-chemical basis, but still. Why take the risk when not needed?

Also, I've once taken an actual mechanical Millivoltmeter, bridged its terminals with a diode, and the actual needle moved when I started using a mobile phone nearby! Trust me, after you've once seen the RF energy from a mobile phone ACTUALLY MECHANICALLY MOVE A NEEDLE, you're traumatized 😂

Assertions like that with no evidence don’t deserve oxygen.

I don't like the tone of that.

Anyway, I'm out of this now with my pseudo-scientific BS 😂 (BTW, as there's been some conflation... I haven't sourced anything from Instagram nor would I recommend getting scientific or medical information from there. My recommendation is always: Get information from as many sources as possible (as long as they appear at least somewhat reasonable), then use your common sense to filter them!)

This thread started with a literal screenshot from Instagram.

Yes I know. At times I wasn't sure who you were refering to. But hey, it's okay! We agree on some things and disagree on others. I hope healthily. Because that's how discussions should be! 🥰

And “research is inconclusive” is another way of saying that no connection has been found, i.e. it’s just speculation, lacking evidence.

Yes, no doubt. A few years ago, no evidence had been found between exposure to microplastics and adverse health effects. Roughly a century ago, no evidence had been found between exposure to intense X-rays and cancer. Does that mean that X-rays shouldn't be treated with respect? No! I'm just trying to be reasonable. That includes being careful with stuff that hasn't been conclusively shown not to be dangerous... but of course that's also a matter of preference, and I respect all attitudes. If I haven't at some point, then I apologize.

An anecdote about a millivolt meter isn’t really evidence of anything. Sources of electromagnetism can mechanically move the needle of a compass.

I must admit: Good counter! 😄 however, without doing exact calculations, my intuition tells me that the energy carried by the RF from the now-proverbial earbuds is many many orders of magnitude greater than that of the earth's magnetic field.

Is that bad? Human bodies are exposed to external sources of electrical energy constantly, even in the absence of technology.

Hmmm... can you give examples of sources of significant electromagnetic fields in the absence of technology? Or electromagnetic radiation for that matter. Apart from the sun! (granted, that radiation IS actually KNOWN to be damaging, but then again you can use sunscreen... there's no earbudscreen!)

You don’t like my tone. Okay. I don’t like the open sewer of disinformation and BS that social media has become, and it saddens me to see it spreading to forums like this. Again, I reference the posct that started the thread. Maybe my tone is a bigger problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree that loads of bullshit is spread on social media (and everywhere else). I don't defend the original Instagram screenshot. I only defend open discussion and openness to ongoing questioning of the status quo without beheading people (even if only virtually! 🙂)

McD

I hate wires so much that I’ll take 5-10 years off my life to avoid buying more boxes of them.
But latency requirements mean we must get better engineering that cares about us.

Apple! Please make VR cool. The device must offload more of processing to the mothership (our iPads or iPhones) or it will never catch on. The human hardware must look very cool like:

Steve Jobs would get it. And they would have yet another product line no one can touch.

FYI: In my vision, that’s NOT a piercing in his ear. It’s a sub-woofer for more bass.
An iPin which many use as piercings in erogenous zones for “more pleasure”.
See “Pinhead” for the ultimate in stereo imaging:

Regarding “bone conducting” headphones… isn’t that just another form of “cable” made from human body parts? So, 2000’s.

AlmostAnonymous

@SevenSystems said:
I guess I can see the potential benefit of headphones being wireless, I mean I often scream at the tangled mess I pull out of my pocket and then spending 5 minutes trying to untangle them

Science has shown pockets have nothing to do with the issue….

AlmostAnonymous

@SevenSystems said:

@mjm1138 said:

@SevenSystems said:

@mjm1138 said:
We have a solid 20 years of millions of people using bluetooth headsets (remember when everyone had the little Lt. Uhuru Jawbone headsets?) and closer to 30 years with millions of people holding cell phones up to their ears. If there was a correlation with either of those activities and cancer, we would know it.

I wasn't specifically referring to cancer. How about induced currents in neurons / synapses? How about thermal effects? As far as I know, the research is "inconclusive". I know and have seen first hand that an active mobile phone can induce havoc in electronic devices nearby. Granted, the brain works on an electro-chemical basis, but still. Why take the risk when not needed?

Also, I've once taken an actual mechanical Millivoltmeter, bridged its terminals with a diode, and the actual needle moved when I started using a mobile phone nearby! Trust me, after you've once seen the RF energy from a mobile phone ACTUALLY MECHANICALLY MOVE A NEEDLE, you're traumatized 😂

Assertions like that with no evidence don’t deserve oxygen.

I don't like the tone of that.

Anyway, I'm out of this now with my pseudo-scientific BS 😂 (BTW, as there's been some conflation... I haven't sourced anything from Instagram nor would I recommend getting scientific or medical information from there. My recommendation is always: Get information from as many sources as possible (as long as they appear at least somewhat reasonable), then use your common sense to filter them!)

This thread started with a literal screenshot from Instagram.

Yes I know. At times I wasn't sure who you were refering to. But hey, it's okay! We agree on some things and disagree on others. I hope healthily. Because that's how discussions should be! 🥰

And “research is inconclusive” is another way of saying that no connection has been found, i.e. it’s just speculation, lacking evidence.

Yes, no doubt. A few years ago, no evidence had been found between exposure to microplastics and adverse health effects. Roughly a century ago, no evidence had been found between exposure to intense X-rays and cancer. Does that mean that X-rays shouldn't be treated with respect? No! I'm just trying to be reasonable. That includes being careful with stuff that hasn't been conclusively shown not to be dangerous... but of course that's also a matter of preference, and I respect all attitudes. If I haven't at some point, then I apologize.

An anecdote about a millivolt meter isn’t really evidence of anything. Sources of electromagnetism can mechanically move the needle of a compass.

I must admit: Good counter! 😄 however, without doing exact calculations, my intuition tells me that the energy carried by the RF from the now-proverbial earbuds is many many orders of magnitude greater than that of the earth's magnetic field.

Is that bad? Human bodies are exposed to external sources of electrical energy constantly, even in the absence of technology.

Hmmm... can you give examples of sources of significant electromagnetic fields in the absence of technology? Or electromagnetic radiation for that matter. Apart from the sun! (granted, that radiation IS actually KNOWN to be damaging, but then again you can use sunscreen... there's no earbudscreen!)

You don’t like my tone. Okay. I don’t like the open sewer of disinformation and BS that social media has become, and it saddens me to see it spreading to forums like this. Again, I reference the posct that started the thread. Maybe my tone is a bigger problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree that loads of bullshit is spread on social media (and everywhere else). I don't defend the original Instagram screenshot. I only defend open discussion and openness to ongoing questioning of the status quo without beheading people (even if only virtually! 🙂)

Doesn’t the Bluetooth transmit omidirectionally? So aren’t I giving people in my general area cancer, even thought they don’t have the headphones in their ear? It’s not like it’s a direct beam from transmitter to receiver…..

I can see their phone from my phone in the pairing…..I’m already getting radiated by their Bluetooth.

EMP now?

Also Bluetooth and WiFi occupy the same radio waves. Why isn’t instagram poster freaking out about the 10k WiFi networks he crosses a day he doesn’t even know about?

dendy

Dark truth: People are believing nonsenses spreaded by random influencers on Instagram and TikTok instead of scientists.

Science: Wirelless headphones use low energy bluetooth which has zero impact even to inner ear organ, taking apart of brain which is hidden behind skull ..

Pure. Profound. Nonsense.

[drop the mic]

knewspeak

@dendy said:
Dark truth: People are believing nonsenses spreaded by random influencers on Instagram and TikTok instead of scientists.

Science: Wirelless headphones use low energy bluetooth which has zero impact even to inner ear organ, taking apart of brain which is hidden behind skull ..

Pure. Profound. Nonsense.

[drop the mic]

Zero impact, I wouldn’t be certain about that.

SevenSystems

@AlmostAnonymous said:

@SevenSystems said:

@mjm1138 said:

@SevenSystems said:

@mjm1138 said:
We have a solid 20 years of millions of people using bluetooth headsets (remember when everyone had the little Lt. Uhuru Jawbone headsets?) and closer to 30 years with millions of people holding cell phones up to their ears. If there was a correlation with either of those activities and cancer, we would know it.

I wasn't specifically referring to cancer. How about induced currents in neurons / synapses? How about thermal effects? As far as I know, the research is "inconclusive". I know and have seen first hand that an active mobile phone can induce havoc in electronic devices nearby. Granted, the brain works on an electro-chemical basis, but still. Why take the risk when not needed?

Also, I've once taken an actual mechanical Millivoltmeter, bridged its terminals with a diode, and the actual needle moved when I started using a mobile phone nearby! Trust me, after you've once seen the RF energy from a mobile phone ACTUALLY MECHANICALLY MOVE A NEEDLE, you're traumatized 😂

Assertions like that with no evidence don’t deserve oxygen.

I don't like the tone of that.

Anyway, I'm out of this now with my pseudo-scientific BS 😂 (BTW, as there's been some conflation... I haven't sourced anything from Instagram nor would I recommend getting scientific or medical information from there. My recommendation is always: Get information from as many sources as possible (as long as they appear at least somewhat reasonable), then use your common sense to filter them!)

This thread started with a literal screenshot from Instagram.

Yes I know. At times I wasn't sure who you were refering to. But hey, it's okay! We agree on some things and disagree on others. I hope healthily. Because that's how discussions should be! 🥰

And “research is inconclusive” is another way of saying that no connection has been found, i.e. it’s just speculation, lacking evidence.

Yes, no doubt. A few years ago, no evidence had been found between exposure to microplastics and adverse health effects. Roughly a century ago, no evidence had been found between exposure to intense X-rays and cancer. Does that mean that X-rays shouldn't be treated with respect? No! I'm just trying to be reasonable. That includes being careful with stuff that hasn't been conclusively shown not to be dangerous... but of course that's also a matter of preference, and I respect all attitudes. If I haven't at some point, then I apologize.

An anecdote about a millivolt meter isn’t really evidence of anything. Sources of electromagnetism can mechanically move the needle of a compass.

I must admit: Good counter! 😄 however, without doing exact calculations, my intuition tells me that the energy carried by the RF from the now-proverbial earbuds is many many orders of magnitude greater than that of the earth's magnetic field.

Is that bad? Human bodies are exposed to external sources of electrical energy constantly, even in the absence of technology.

Hmmm... can you give examples of sources of significant electromagnetic fields in the absence of technology? Or electromagnetic radiation for that matter. Apart from the sun! (granted, that radiation IS actually KNOWN to be damaging, but then again you can use sunscreen... there's no earbudscreen!)

You don’t like my tone. Okay. I don’t like the open sewer of disinformation and BS that social media has become, and it saddens me to see it spreading to forums like this. Again, I reference the posct that started the thread. Maybe my tone is a bigger problem ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree that loads of bullshit is spread on social media (and everywhere else). I don't defend the original Instagram screenshot. I only defend open discussion and openness to ongoing questioning of the status quo without beheading people (even if only virtually! 🙂)

Doesn’t the Bluetooth transmit omidirectionally?

Yes.

So aren’t I giving people in my general area cancer

It's extremely unlikely. If you read my other posts again (which I recommend), the main concern I'm raising is with the extremely short distance between Bluetooth earbuds and the brain. FIeld strength falls off with the square of the distance. As soon as you're a reasonable distance away from any "modern digital" RF source, you're probably safe.

I can see their phone from my phone in the pairing…..I’m already getting radiated by their Bluetooth.

Yes, but the energy deposited into your brain is extremely low. When you're 2 meters away from them, your brain's exposure is roughly 40,000 times lower than theirs.

EMP now?

?

Also Bluetooth and WiFi occupy the same radio waves. Why isn’t instagram poster freaking out about the 10k WiFi networks he crosses a day he doesn’t even know about?

See above. Distance.

SevenSystems

@dendy said:
Dark truth: People are believing nonsenses spreaded by random influencers on Instagram and TikTok instead of scientists.

Science: Wirelless headphones use low energy bluetooth which has zero impact even to inner ear organ, taking apart of brain which is hidden behind skull ..

Pure. Profound. Nonsense.

[drop the mic]

I will give you this: you have VERY strong convictions and vocally represent them on the forum. That's good! (no sarcasm). However, not all of them are based in fact. That's an area that could still be improved 😇

On a more serious note: The claim that strong microwave RF fields have "zero impact" on biological tissue is not true. Just the extent of its effects is uncertain. That doesn't automatically mean that there is no adverse effect.

Blipsford_Baubie

@tom_ward said:

@Blipsford_Baubie said:
I sometimes wonder if I’m the only person who occasionally feels a phantom vibration on my upper leg above the knee, where my phone would be in my pocket. It startled me the first time I experienced this, because I went to grab my phone thinking my wife was texting, but my phone wasn’t even near me. Lol?

You aren't the only person who has experienced phantom vibrations. I started removing my phone from my pocket as often as possible...and after a period of time the phantom signals did stop. I know a lot of people who have experienced this, coming from many years of constant communications via text/slack for work. The joys of being on call 24/7 for live software.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6149296/

Thank you for this. This is interesting to me, and I appreciate you sharing your own experience. Good to know that it went away.

kirmesteggno

@dendy said:
Dark truth: People are believing nonsenses spreaded by random influencers on Instagram and TikTok instead of scientists.

Science: Wirelless headphones use low energy bluetooth which has zero impact even to inner ear organ, taking apart of brain which is hidden behind skull ..

Pure. Profound. Nonsense.

[drop the mic]

100% agree.

Most people don't know that it's just a business move by some content marketers without morals and ethics. Next step you're buying in their onlineshop prepping for the apocalypse.

If you're already doubting science and think they're lying about BT then you're an easy target to get pulled into their zombie army of "twitter bots". Many "bots" are just radicalized people directed to and through telegram groups.

sigma79

If their were any proven effects/of something.

Any scientist turned whistleblower would be zapped ( ironically with maybe some sort of energy beam )

And exist no more.

This would keep all the other scientists in check

( Usually cash would surfice )

lol.

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