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What setup is SEONN using nowadays? PAGE 3 - Mobile Server Update
Previously this thread was about, "My Frustrations of Live Gigging with iOS" but it has since evolved. Shoutout to @jwmmakerofmusic for the thread title inspiration.
Going to be talking about my setup as it constantly evolves.
Here's what we have so far:
Page 1 - My frustrations with iOS (with solid feedback on how to solve them)
Page 2 - RV and Car Mobile Studio
Page 3 - Tent Trailer Mobile Studio, some cool projects I’ve been a part of, Mobile Server Build, and my favourite iOS accessories.
I'll update this as I go.
Comments
Here's the previous post:
Had one of the most frustrating experiences as a music producer today, and it’s got me seriously questioning the iPad’s role in my workflow.
Earlier, I did a gig with Shallou and handled a lot of the backstage work for the venue. Had a good chat with his musical partner too, and he mentioned he never got into iPad production because it feels like a gimmick to him. I totally get it, though I tried to convince him to give Koala Sampler a shot.
Fast forward a few hours, and I went to a new gig where had a set without drums. I figured, why not just use Koala to lay down the beats? I loaded my drum kits, but that’s when things started going south. The pads on Koala, which should’ve matched up visually with an Akai or SP-404 layout, didn’t trigger the sounds the way I expected. Total mismatch.
I thought switching to GarageBand or Gadget might solve it, but after 20-30 minutes of routing through Audiobus and AUM, and fighting with the mapping, I finally gave up. Had to run the whole setup directly on the iPad, which just didn’t feel performance-ready.
Here’s the thing: iOS is awesome in theory because it’s portable. I love that I can take it anywhere. But when it comes to live gigs, especially with other artists where everything has to sync smoothly, the iPad setup just isn’t reliable enough. Alone, it might work, but in a collaborative, live environment? It’s just not there yet.
A Mac or PC is just so much more dependable. I know I can get things working exactly how I want without all the setup headaches.
Honestly, it’s a love-hate relationship. I’m all about the touch response and the unique instruments iOS offers, but the lack of a reliable way to set things up for a live gig without extensive prep is disappointing. It’s tough because I really want it to work better than it does.
So, picture and video time...who is Shallou?
I found out about Shallou earlier this year from this song, "Lie" which came up during my random shuffle on Spotify
He's a successful music producer, artist, guitarist, pianist who has been touring all over.
One of my contacts needed help.for a ton of backstage, and security work so they reached out to me. I'm still fitted with one of the radios from the event. Didn't even know it was Shallou because they kept calling him "Calu" or by his real name. It was until I looked up the ticket and saw that he was the person I had seen earlier, and was the main event.
I have played with Gadget lots of gigs and it never failed me. Sometimes it was a huge projects. But I think that it's different if there is kind of closed environment like Gadget, Garageband, some MultiFX like TH-U. Maybe it is better optimized and tested
Yeah, you need to invert the pads on Koala if you're using an external controller. This is a simple fix and should hopefully still work:
You can achieve the same thing Mozaic scripts and various other methods though.
Preparation is everything.
Changing the setup under stress / time constraints can become difficult, no matter if it's iOS or desktop apps running together. Especially if you choose a route that you haven't tried before.
I don't use midi controllers (yet), and I'm not having any issues playing live with an iPad. I do use a midi keyboard (no problems). I have guitar, bass, and vocals all going through a cheapie Zoom AMS-24 interface.
I use Loopy Pro. I guess the important thing is to be able to rehearse/sound check with your gear before going in front of people.
The thing I don't like about the iOS music world is the cables. I'm not a fan of usb connection. I'm more used to the robust 1/4" guitar cables and XLRs.
But here's the strange part. If I rotate Koala to landscape, the mapping is completely different.
I used to have problems with an iPad- crashing apps etc. But I’ve had no problems in the last couple of years- each of my songs is set up in AUM and I run my sound through a Novation audiohub, which works perfectly. I wouldn’t go back to anything else.
+1, preparation is everything, whatever system you use.
There's not enough information on the post, my gut says it's a user error but I might be wrong.
I've been using the ipad in live gigs with complex sessions, never had a problem
Yes, it’s a known thing, I’m not sure if it’s considered to be a bug or not. That said, I agree with the rest here, trying to figure out a good setup for new use, on a novel platform/software, under stress, is bound to be problematic. Just a short rehearsal would’ve shown you this particular quirk of Koala, and you could’ve decided if the workaround was worth or not.
This sounds like you are using Koala’s default mapping. Koala’s default mapping if I recall correctly changes with rotation but if you assign the midi to particular pads, the midi to pad association stays the same.
That's a failsafe to ensure that you don't flip to landscape. Koalas are vehemently opposed to horizontality - and rightly so.
That's exactly what I was about to say. If you have any kind of complex setup, you have to make sure you iron out all the bugs (including having a backup in place) before going on stage with it.
Yes. Although frustrating, this issue Seonn experienced was not due to any kind of flaw in iOS as a platform or iPads as hardware. If gigging live in any setup, you need to know your gear / apps intimately. That's the only lesson to be learnt here.
Yep, jamming is one thing, but going to stage with an untested setup is a HUGE gamble. I've foolishly done it before with a PC system i thought i knew all the quirks of. I didn't know all of them apparently and it showed.
I feel for ya @seonnthaproducer . It sux to be on that stage and it's not happening as it should, and it sux to know how a tool should work and have it not behave that way. But all we can do is plan and Practise, plan and Practise.
Last note, i do live, FULLY IMPROVISED techno sets regularly. The one thing i would never improvise now though is my setup.
Your frustration is understandable, but generalizing that the whole platform is unstable and unsuitable because you choose to go into a situation with an untested configuration? Sorry, but that’s just kind of silly.
The Koala behavior you describe is a well known Koala design limitation that has an easy workaround anyone experienced enough with the app to take it on stage should know be familiar with. Also, even if it was purely Koala’s fault, one app misbehaving doesn’t indicate a whole platform is substandard.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I think you’re pointing fingers in the wrong direction.
Faktz
Faktz
Perhaps I’m missing something here but if I wanted to do a live performance I would just used Live Loops in Logic Pro 4 iPad or even GarageBand .. Also, who hasn’t heard of similar things happening with laptops?
@seonnthaproducer Gonna keep it honest mate. Seems like you decided to try something at the last second. Doing things last second, regardless of the platform/device(s) you use, is a fool's errand. I'm not talking about musical improv and the like. I mean it's best to prepare prior to the actual gig, such as testing the apps and the controllers you plan to use with the apps, troubleshooting possible issues, making sure the speakers and the live mix are well-balanced and fit well with the acoustics of the space you're performing in, etc. Doing things "last second" rarely ever works out the way anyone wants it to.
And I'm with @wim on this. Let's not demonise a platform simply because you chose to do things "last second". I bet the same would've happened if you went with a last-second decision to use a laptop for drums. I don't think the platforms are unstable, only user error.
I use my iPad as my sole sound source when playing keyboards with 2 different cover bands. I usually connect 2 keyboards and sustain/volume pedals to my iPad, all via Bluetooth (the pedals both connect to an iRig Blueboard). I sometimes also connect an old iPhone to my iPad to function as a pitch bend / mod wheel for one of my keyboards that lacks these controls. I am running Keystage and many instrument apps on my iPad. I find this setup to be very stable.
Oh I'm generally a fan of iOS for production work. But I just gave this example to share my frustrations with it. I generally cannot use iOS on gigs because the setup time is way too much.
For piano apps, sure. Effects, maybe.
But I have a lot more to worry about. My phone battery dying, device not charging, one failed connection and your MIDI device isn't being recognised. Or the high amount of accessories I have to buy to make one iPad properly work.
With my guitar, I just pick it up and play. With my laptops, I just turn it on. And I can do a lot more customization and scripting.
I've had to worry about an update breaking a lot of my advanced scripts. And freezing my newest iPad means I can't get the latest app update fixing certain bugs.
But I love iOS and Android as a quick way to teach people. It's how I taught my drummer and pianist how to produce.
Just saying, it's not all roses in iOS land. There's definitely thorns.
Agreed. It was an impromptu situation, but some gigs generally are like that. I did kinda overdo it by trying to set up drums but hey, I wouldn't have known of this challenge if I didn't try.
It just feels like I'm fighting the technology, instead of the tech making the work easier to do.
Wouldn't it be awesome if I just connect my controller and it automatically worked based on its visual? It's great that certain controllers synergize with iOS, but this Koala default mapping really put me in a weird loop.
Eh...I dunno about that.
A keyboard is a keyboard. There's only 128 MIDI notes, and most of it isn't used at once.
I get that some softwares map C3, and others map C4. That's fine. I can transpose down one octave or up one octave.
What I was surprised about was when I'm tapping C3 and the F3 note is triggering, and I'm trying to find out why.
But at least I know it was Koala specific. And I really don't aim to be an expert of an app. I use it to make cool sounds and projects.
But the behavior between apps is so inconsistent. Garageband only allows keyboards, Groovebox only works with Novation controllers, and Koala only syncs with SP404 natively.
I mean, it's fine and all. But should one buy every single controller to get the most of iOS? Or should one have a subpar experience because they don't have a particular controller?
Gadget, I can't control the sliders except via the touchscreen. But it works with the nanokey controller natively.
Honestly, I won't lie, I've found Bluetooth more reliable than wired connection for iOS. Because I can take my UD-BT01 dongle to another keyboard and not lose my progress.
This was from 2 years ago
Oh gosh, 😅 that applies to any device and setup. Windows laptops are super susceptible to viruses for instance. Androids don't have near the amount of music apps iOS has. Macs are super expensive. I could go on. So it's not just iOS that has thorns suffice it to say.
Agreed. I just got poked today. I'm tempted to get a hardware drumpad, but that was what I was hoping to avoid doing.
Or I could just learn to play drums using a MIDI keybaord.
Mate, if you can afford it and/or have space for it, I'd say just get a hardware drumpad. ☺️
Still on the fence on that. But it's not a bad idea. It's the space right now that is the challenge. I've lived in so many studio type spaces that I'm shrinking down my gear.
I've gone from basements, to AirBNB, to RV, hotels; and nowadays I'm on the road so much that my car is my second home.
Even had to switch it up because I drove so much.
Definitely understand the frustration…this is on you though, why use something you admit you’re not intimately familiar with, on a whim. I feel that most people that have used koala for more than 20 minutes have run into this issue right away.
I've run into issues using it iOS live in other ways. After trying a lot, I've decided to take a break from combining iOS with much other hardware for live performances. I often find the setup fiddly when dealing with audio interfaces, sending/receiving midi, swapping presets, etc.
My current iOS live setup is more ambient/noise and is just Drambo with a Launchpad Pro MKIII (well... and Loopy Pro to talk to the midi controller for lighting).