Lemur is back

revox

https://www.midikinetics.com/lemur/
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lemur/id6739544164

Lemur is back!!! Yaaayyy
(Yearly Subscription $99.99) Noooouu

I hope they'll offer a lifetime license.

steve99

This link has info for existing users, though no especially good news (like a discount), but a full explanation of their pricing policy and the fact the old version continues to work (subject to iOS updates).

https://www.midikinetics.com/announcement/lemur-rerelease/

uncledave

There's some other forum discussion following this post.

supadom

I foresee a major discussion on subscriptions.

supadom

I honestly don’t know much about Lemur but on the surface it looks very much like Loopy Pro in terms of widgets.

jwmmakerofmusic

I'm glad Lemur is back, but subscription? For what the app is, I don't consider 13 quid monthly (or 100 annually) worth it. That's more than what Logic Pro's sub is, and Logic can do so much more than Lemur and has more content. (Ofc I prefer CB3, but Logic is great too.)

drez

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I'm glad Lemur is back, but subscription? For what the app is, I don't consider 13 quid monthly (or 100 annually) worth it. That's more than what Logic Pro's sub is, and Logic can do so much more than Lemur and has more content. (Ofc I prefer CB3, but Logic is great too.)

Lemur is a completely different product. You can make your own customized interface to control anything. That's not something Logic does. It's probably the ultimate control app, imo. When i get my home studio setup, i will consider it for speed and workflow control.

espiegel123

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I'm glad Lemur is back, but subscription? For what the app is, I don't consider 13 quid monthly (or 100 annually) worth it. That's more than what Logic Pro's sub is, and Logic can do so much more than Lemur and has more content. (Ofc I prefer CB3, but Logic is great too.)

If you read their explanation, you will see that they are focused on a particular professional market and not hobbyists. Time will tell whether there is a sufficient market for it to be sustainable.

espiegel123

Also, implicit in their page about Lemur’s return is an appeal to other developers to charge more realistic prices … i.e. prices that reflect the time and effort to create the software.

wim

Meanwhile TouchOSC is $14.99US one-time purchase, and is as powerful as Lemur in the ways that would matter to most people here.

It's unable to run in the background and has only rotary motion on the knobs, which I can't stand though.

Gavinski

@espiegel123 said:
Also, implicit in their page about Lemur’s return is an appeal to other developers to charge more realistic prices … i.e. prices that reflect the time and effort to create the software.

Yes, everyone should ideally read this before commenting on the pricing, they make some important points, points with relevance to consumers and makers of all kinds of digital content

https://www.midikinetics.com/announcement/lemur-rerelease/

wim

@Gavinski said:
Yes, everyone should ideally read this before commenting on the pricing, they make some important points, points with relevance to consumers and makers of all kinds of digital content

https://www.midikinetics.com/announcement/lemur-rerelease/

;tldr

Since they didn't stealthy bork the existing version with a quiet "upgrade", I'm all for it. I hope they're successful.

reezygle

@Gavinski said:

@espiegel123 said:
Also, implicit in their page about Lemur’s return is an appeal to other developers to charge more realistic prices … i.e. prices that reflect the time and effort to create the software.

Yes, everyone should ideally read this before commenting on the pricing, they make some important points, points with relevance to consumers and makers of all kinds of digital content

https://www.midikinetics.com/announcement/lemur-rerelease/

I appreciate what they are saying and it is fair. But there is also the reality of the market. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this is much more expensive than Logic Pro's subscription on iPad (I know, I know Apple is a much larger company), plus there are solid working alternatives.

What I don't appreciate is them trying to put down the other apps by saying they are for hobbyists. I've seen plenty of professionals using Loopy Pro, TouchOSC, etc. in live shows. Just look on youtube.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that would pay the subscription, use it, and love it. I personally can't justify such a high price.

espiegel123

@reezygle said:

@Gavinski said:

@espiegel123 said:
Also, implicit in their page about Lemur’s return is an appeal to other developers to charge more realistic prices … i.e. prices that reflect the time and effort to create the software.

Yes, everyone should ideally read this before commenting on the pricing, they make some important points, points with relevance to consumers and makers of all kinds of digital content

https://www.midikinetics.com/announcement/lemur-rerelease/

I appreciate what they are saying and it is fair. But there is also the reality of the market. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this is much more expensive than Logic Pro's subscription on iPad (I know, I know Apple is a much larger company), plus there are solid working alternatives.

What I don't appreciate is them trying to put down the other apps by saying they are for hobbyists. I've seen plenty of professionals using Loopy Pro, TouchOSC, etc. in live shows. Just look on youtube.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that would pay the subscription, use it, and love it. I personally can't justify such a high price.

Imo, it isn’t a put-down to call people hobbyists. A lot of great art is created by hobbyists. There is nothing wrong with being a hobbyist or being semi-pro. I don’t think it is a put down to say that most apps are targeting a hobby market.

Very few people here are making their living from music. A lot of people here may hope to eventually make a living from music, but I’d be surprised if a significant percentage of people that post to the forum make their living from music.

I have no idea if there is enough of a market not served by other tools to make their strategy viable. It will be interesting to see.

Gavinski

@reezygle said:

@Gavinski said:

@espiegel123 said:
Also, implicit in their page about Lemur’s return is an appeal to other developers to charge more realistic prices … i.e. prices that reflect the time and effort to create the software.

Yes, everyone should ideally read this before commenting on the pricing, they make some important points, points with relevance to consumers and makers of all kinds of digital content

https://www.midikinetics.com/announcement/lemur-rerelease/

I appreciate what they are saying and it is fair. But there is also the reality of the market. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this is much more expensive than Logic Pro's subscription on iPad (I know, I know Apple is a much larger company), plus there are solid working alternatives.

What I don't appreciate is them trying to put down the other apps by saying they are for hobbyists. I've seen plenty of professionals using Loopy Pro, TouchOSC, etc. in live shows. Just look on youtube.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that would pay the subscription, use it, and love it. I personally can't justify such a high price.

Oh, I agree that they're definitely going to have a struggle at that price point! Mainly I wanted to encourage people to read that text before having a knee-jerk reaction or offering their opinion here, just so they're informed about the developer's arguments. Cheers!

jwmmakerofmusic

@drez said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I'm glad Lemur is back, but subscription? For what the app is, I don't consider 13 quid monthly (or 100 annually) worth it. That's more than what Logic Pro's sub is, and Logic can do so much more than Lemur and has more content. (Ofc I prefer CB3, but Logic is great too.)

Lemur is a completely different product. You can make your own customized interface to control anything. That's not something Logic does. It's probably the ultimate control app, imo. When i get my home studio setup, i will consider it for speed and workflow control.

Right. There are other control apps out there, but I get where you're coming from. If it floats your boat, I say "go for it".

---

@espiegel123 said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
I'm glad Lemur is back, but subscription? For what the app is, I don't consider 13 quid monthly (or 100 annually) worth it. That's more than what Logic Pro's sub is, and Logic can do so much more than Lemur and has more content. (Ofc I prefer CB3, but Logic is great too.)

If you read their explanation, you will see that they are focused on a particular professional market and not hobbyists. Time will tell whether there is a sufficient market for it to be sustainable.

Right, but I'm not a hobbyist (not that there's anything wrong with that, mate). I'm a professional who performs piano publicly and also does client work (both of which I'm in the midst of right at the moment). However, when it comes to visual arts, yeah, I'm a hobbyist, lol. 😂

johnfromberkeley

@revox said:

I hope they'll offer a lifetime license.

“Lifetime license $1,000”

reezygle

@espiegel123 I see your point for sure. What got me is that they are clearly associating other apps that by their definition are made for hobbyist, with low quality. Professional tools are what pros use to make something and make money with it. The way I read it in their post, "Pro" is a marketing label to project quality, regardless of facts. (Maybe Jim should call it GR-PRO and make it a subscription jkjkjkjkjk)

But yes it is a very tough environment to make a living from apps for sure. From a fairness stand-point, the best model I've seen is what Michael has done with Loopy Pro.

reezygle

@Gavinski I always appreciate your insights. Cheers indeed!

garden

Aaargh. Just like TouchOsc, a standalone app only. No way to load it as a control surface inside a host.

Gavinski

@garden said:
Aaargh. Just like TouchOsc, a standalone app only. No way to load it as a control surface inside a host.

Exactly, so of little interest to many (though certainly not all) of us here. Loopy Pro loaded as an AUv3 is maybe the slickest choice for that?

MonkeyDrummer

They, and all the other devs that bitch they can’t make enough should just have a deal that musicians can use their stuff for free and they get a cut of the massive royalties all the musicians make off streaming.
Because we all know how rich musicians are… 😂

Devs bitching they can’t make money on apps is getting tired…

cyberheater

I wish devs would give us options. Subscription or purchase even if the purchase price is quite high.

rs2000

@espiegel123 said:

@reezygle said:

@Gavinski said:

@espiegel123 said:
Also, implicit in their page about Lemur’s return is an appeal to other developers to charge more realistic prices … i.e. prices that reflect the time and effort to create the software.

Yes, everyone should ideally read this before commenting on the pricing, they make some important points, points with relevance to consumers and makers of all kinds of digital content

https://www.midikinetics.com/announcement/lemur-rerelease/

I appreciate what they are saying and it is fair. But there is also the reality of the market. As pointed out earlier in the thread, this is much more expensive than Logic Pro's subscription on iPad (I know, I know Apple is a much larger company), plus there are solid working alternatives.

What I don't appreciate is them trying to put down the other apps by saying they are for hobbyists. I've seen plenty of professionals using Loopy Pro, TouchOSC, etc. in live shows. Just look on youtube.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that would pay the subscription, use it, and love it. I personally can't justify such a high price.

Imo, it isn’t a put-down to call people hobbyists. A lot of great art is created by hobbyists. There is nothing wrong with being a hobbyist or being semi-pro. I don’t think it is a put down to say that most apps are targeting a hobby market.

Very few people here are making their living from music. A lot of people here may hope to eventually make a living from music, but I’d be surprised if a significant percentage of people that post to the forum make their living from music.

I have no idea if there is enough of a market not served by other tools to make their strategy viable. It will be interesting to see.

Indeed. Apart from the fact that the developer expects users to put their time and effort to create Lemur templates again and upload them for free as well, I don't think the same activity will happen again, not to speak of the vastly reduced amount of users due to the new pricing policy which for me would have been $1300 for the time that I've been using the Lemur app.
iPad apps need no touch surface, neither do desktop synths when you can have the original UI on a tablet now, but also the number of hardware that would benefit from it is slowly decreasing I think.

oldsynthguy

@reezygle said:
@espiegel123 I see your point for sure. What got me is that they are clearly associating other apps that by their definition are made for hobbyist, with low quality. Professional tools are what pros use to make something and make money with it. The way I read it in their post, "Pro" is a marketing label to project quality, regardless of facts.

Funnily enough most of the full time pro musicians I know, are running older, cheaper kit than I do as a hobbyist dabbler.

As it’s a hobby I have a set amount of cash available for software and hardware regardless of it bringing in a return for investment, whereas if I was making a living from it, I’d have to balance the books a bit more, and ensure purchases equated to extra profitability.

Krupa

@johnfromberkeley said:

@revox said:

I hope they'll offer a lifetime license.

“Lifetime license $1,000”

I’m old enough to recall paying more than twice, even thrice that to buy into upgrade paths for software😅

Gavinski

@oldsynthguy said:

@reezygle said:
@espiegel123 I see your point for sure. What got me is that they are clearly associating other apps that by their definition are made for hobbyist, with low quality. Professional tools are what pros use to make something and make money with it. The way I read it in their post, "Pro" is a marketing label to project quality, regardless of facts.

Funnily enough most of the full time pro musicians I know, are running older, cheaper kit than I do as a hobbyist dabbler.

As it’s a hobby I have a set amount of cash available for software and hardware regardless of it bringing in a return for investment, whereas if I was making a living from it, I’d have to balance the books a bit more, and ensure purchases equated to extra profitability.

Exactly! I reckon, for all kinds of different reasons, that there's actually more money to be made from the very large hobbyist market than the much smaller pro market.

oldsynthguy

@Gavinski said:

@oldsynthguy said:

@reezygle said:
@espiegel123 I see your point for sure. What got me is that they are clearly associating other apps that by their definition are made for hobbyist, with low quality. Professional tools are what pros use to make something and make money with it. The way I read it in their post, "Pro" is a marketing label to project quality, regardless of facts.

Funnily enough most of the full time pro musicians I know, are running older, cheaper kit than I do as a hobbyist dabbler.

As it’s a hobby I have a set amount of cash available for software and hardware regardless of it bringing in a return for investment, whereas if I was making a living from it, I’d have to balance the books a bit more, and ensure purchases equated to extra profitability.

Exactly! I reckon, for all kinds of different reasons, that there's actually more money to be made from the very large hobbyist market than the much smaller pro market.

As it’s a hobby, I think of a new app purchase as a bit of a treat. If it finds its way into my workflow and results in a new track, that’s a bonus. If not, then at least I’ll have had a bit of pleasure playing with it. I’ve only refunded two apps in over 10 years as they didn’t actually work - but if this was my job, I’d be way more choosy and critical.

I’m not going to pay £100 for a Lemur sub, but I probably spend 10x more on apps in total every year than my pro music buddies.

And there’s a lot more of us hobbyists than there are pro’s…

NTKK

I still have it running on two frozen pads - not on my newest m2 unfortianatly.

It doesn’t seem like I have to download the new version to make them work, as they write on the site - but that needs to be tested.
But it is moving to the first page of those pads.

It was pretty premium priced back in the day.
It is nice that they keep it alive - but on a subscription, I would have liked some updates.
Au3 at the minimum at that price.

I love Lemur - bought it in 2013 to automate Nave and record it into Cubasis - can’t remember why that was a good idea - then I slept on it for a couple of years and build some nice templates for the 1010 blackbox later on. Just dug out the Roland se-02 template because that synth is back on the table.

So I am going to miss the lemur if it is only for professionals at that price - I don’t use it on a dayly basis - but I realy hope it will keep on working on the frozen pads.

So welcome back

wim

@garden said:
Aaargh. Just like TouchOsc, a standalone app only. No way to load it as a control surface inside a host.

Though the difference is Lemur can run in the background, I think. That's important for two-way feedback. TouchOSC is only useful in split-screen or popover mode for that.

NTKK

I think it needs to be in the front all the time - some of my templates resets to saved state when you switch to other apps.

This has been a problem for years.

So if they fixed it now it might be worth a 💯$