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My question for the experts is:
Why do sf2? Or sfz etc.
I have some, put them all into GR 2, then slowly pared them down to the higher quality ones (the AEM ones) and some others off the net, but haven’t actually used them. Not sure, what the advantage is…
Lighter weight cpu-wise than the other options?
Do they sound better than these other options (don’t feel like it unless I dress them up with eq and fx…which may make them not so cpu light after all…)
I can be swayed but right now I’m not that keen.
Nice work on that huge list, Pop.
I think sfz is only a way to store files in the bundle as a human readable and editable way. There’s no actual difference in audio or performance from sf2. That’s why you can easily convert. Sf3 uses ogg though, but I’ve never much cared about that
https://www.polyphone.io/en/documentation/manual/annexes/the-different-soundfont-formats
I also use the SoundFonts app and mine is full of sf2’s too. I see there is an Update out for it, was thinking of updating it because it often crashes in AUM. Do you know if updating the app would clear out the soundfonts I’ve already installed in my current one?
Soundfonts (sf2) are self contained packages which include instructions and sound files. Sfz files are simply a set of text instructions which link to a separate set of sound files.
The quality of the sound files in each case will be the defining feature, not the format.
It’s quite easy to make your own sfz instruments using Versilian Studio’s Folder to SFZ Converter (free). They also have some excellent free orchestral sfz instruments on their website.
It should not clear out the soundfonts; worked fine for me. And the current version is much more stable.
Thanks! Just installed, and all looks well.
Do any of the soundfont apps come with soundfonts?
If remember right, the SoundFonts app came with a few when I first installed it, like fluid r3, freefont, maybe a muse one.
And now a Roland piano. Thanks, you were spot on.
Thanks for note. Where do you think the best of a given soundfont, piano or another instrument, even a synth, ranks in quality against the alternatives?
meaning the other ways to get piano or synth into your tracks, physical modeling, sample based romper, the synth itself. I’m trying to figure out the appeal. Its it the light cpu load I mentioned or…?
When it comes to sample based instruments (be they soundfont, sfz or another format) it’s largely down to the quality of the recorded samples. However, generally speaking, better quality samples and more samples per note range are of course going to result in greater storage requirements. Some bespoke sample based instruments like Pure Piano have greater functionality than soundfonts but for standard piano sounds, a 1gb soundfont with well recorded samples will likely sound just as good as any other 1gb sample based piano library.
With synths, it largely depends if you want to use the sounds of classic synthesisers in your music. If you do, then a good soundfont of, for example, a Jupiter 8 can be a financially realistic way of doing so. If it doesn’t have to be ‘the real thing’ then a good all around synth app can have you covered for most things and will likely have a much smaller storage requirement. Most synths have a tonne of presets if you don’t want to make your own, but the added bonus is that you can also design your own sounds if you want to. Which end resulting sound is better quality? Highly subjective and realistically no one listening to your music is probably going to care less whether that synth sound is sample based or generated by a real or software synth.
I can’t begin to afford Pianoteq (physical modeling) but it sounds amazing from what I’ve heard. I imagine the future will be physical modeling more and more: sounds are incredibly accurate and with no samples involved, it has a tiny footprint as well.
Where do soundfonts/sfz rank? I think good ones are up there with any similarly sized sample sets used by any other formats, simple as that.
Makes good sense, thank you
I do appreciate the physical modeling option, space saving and can sound incredibly accurate
Piantoteq has a Bechstein I’m saving up for, sounds exactly like one I had blessed access to long ago
Best piano I’ve tried other than a 11gb sampled Fazioli (EXS format) I’ve occasionally installed on the device, when I had that space to spare.
To answer the "why" part of your previous question from my point of view, back in the days when Auria was THE DAW, and I learnt about their sample player Lyra, along with it being quite easy to create your own .sfz files (as mentioned by @Robin2 ), especially with something like Synthjacker (at the time, now RIP), where I could sample hardware easily, it became a viable way to get some really high quality sounds in, in a simple way, in to Auria.
The USP of Lyra was that it could "stream" (from the harddrive) sfz files, meaning you didn't have to load the entire thing in to memory like with sf2 (the devices weren't as powerful back then). I never created any tests to see if that was a noticeable difference, but hey, it sounded good in any case, and I could add a few of them to a project before freezing tracks. When Auria was released with Lyra it had a rather strange set of sfz instruments. We always thought they would release more, either as IAP's or that they simply would be included in a future update, but neither ever happened, and the rest is, as they say, history.
On another note, I used to share (on Dropbox) a library of sf2 files of varied quality. 30-40gb if memory serves me right, in mixed quality (stuff found online). I could probably dig out a link for it again if anyone would be interested, but they were all unsorted, so quite a job going through them all, and that is after a rather hefty download.
Hey @Littlewoodg, Did you use AudioLayer for playing the Fazioli exs? How did it perform on your device?
Unfortunately loading was a bit fiddly, played nicely then stopped working (hit a key once, would play twice). Might have been an easy fix but reloading would have been a chore so I gave up
Loaded and played beautifully in Auria Pro, but at one point I couldn’t spare the real estate. An instrument for the desktop now…
Thanks for the report. I’m always on the outlook for good pianos…
https://ia800401.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/16/items/500-soundfonts-full-gm-sets/500_Soundfonts_Full_GM_Sets.zip
Courtesy of @Eschatone . Thank you kindly.
This one is really lovely and crisp Favioli from Imperfect Samples (Funny name) It’s not on the store anymore but his other pianos are probably at least as good and nice prices. Btw, the issues I had with Audiolayer and the EXS paino could easily be a user error issue. My reports are often the outliers
https://www.imperfectsamples.com/website/store/
About 10 years ago there use to be some sampling software for PC that could create SF2 files from VSTs. You could dial in the quality, sample points, and set the loopback parameters however you liked. I went kind of crazy with it and went through factory presets from a lot of synths available back then... Omnisphere, Diva, OP-X, Massive and a bunch of other free ones. I didn't sample them all but just the ones that I found useful or interesting. I did multi-velocity when appropriate with a lot of sample points, and they ended up being pretty large in size... maybe 10-15 MB per SF2. In all I had over 30 GB of SF2 files I made.
They were really good sounding soundfonts but the problem was most hardware/software of that time wasn't set up to handle large SF2 files. My synth at the time took forever to load and change presets, and iPads didn't have that much storage (I think I had a 64GB iPad)... BS-16i worked but it was clunky and slow to audition them all. I ended up deeming them pretty useless and abandoned them but kept all of the files. It's a pretty incredible collection. I was thinking about loading some of them up in GR2 to see how well they work in there today, but also we have SO many excellent synths out right now for iOS that it also seems like maybe it's better to use those rather than mess around with all of these SF2's.
I should also note that there's a nice little free file browser for iOS called "File Hub" that lets you audition midi files using SF2.
Sounds interesting!
Just to tack on - an additional option for SF and MIDI - the Media Assistant app can also play MIDI files and you can load a custom soundfont set into it, including drum kits. The functionality is included with the basic version you can download and use free. I haven't tried out "File Hub" so I can't say how they compare.
Looks like another new version of the free noct-salamander grand piano was released a few days ago with improvements. Those of you looking for a free HQ grand piano in SFZ format may want to check it out, and the Noct Salamander grand piano project:
https://ir.isas.jaxa.jp/~cyamauch/NoctSalamanderGrandPiano/
I find it a bit amusing. To me, the one thing there is no lack of is decent piano soundfonts. But if you want a guitar, bass or drumkit, good luck. I guess like everything, it's all about perspective.
Guitar is way harder to sample well. Plus there are all those fret and string noises that are virtually impossible to incorporate in a realistic way … at least to a guitar olayer’s ears.
That said, I don’t totally hate these from Soundfonts 4u
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18CCYj8AFy7wpDdGg0ADx8GfTTHEFilrs/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c0ipt98FV3BBNAS_N4PdeiGfLwMk_31c/view?usp=sharing
I've tried those and yep, it's probably at least in part being a guitarist. They all just sound terrible. Drums as well though. I have listened to a LOT in the last few days and nothing.
Speaking of piano soundfonts, sometime ago, 15 to 20 years, around the time of dinosaurs like Samplelord, there was a company making big (ish) sf2 piano libraries. They had lots of sales and were pretty well known. Been trying hard to recall the name but it won't come out.
Some desktop apps offer this kind of detailed sampling but learning to play them needs time and knowledge about what a good guitar player does, which kinda guides me towards learning to play the guitar anyway 😅
“Pearl Guitar” (a guitar app that fell into disrepair after it was bought up by an app acquisition company) had a very convincing method of simulating the real squeaks and sounds of an acoustic guitar. I used it on probably a hundred projects before it finally became incompatible with iPadOS. Would be nice if a good developer (hello, Yonac?) snagged this one from whomever owns it today and resurrected it.
Doug even did a video on it:
Woah, that pearl guitar looks cool.
ChatGPT is great for finding things:
Also great for analyzing. I posted about that here:
https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/63978/jim-audio-groove-rider-2-released/p30
You had to make your chord choices in the little button area in advance, but it was a clever solution for solving one of the biggest problems in attempting to simulate a guitar on a touchscreen. And the string squeaks were a great addition for realism. I was quite proficient with that app at one time… and it was a lot less painful than playing a real guitar.