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Any Drum sequencer with built in drumming “technique” ?
Like playing different time division in the same tempo/pattern. Choking cymbals, playing ghost note/flame. I am not a drummer so may be I didnt point out certain must have aspect but I hope I delivered my requirement.
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Unforunately, the best of these are the Lumbeat apps, only a few of which are AUV3. Perfect Drummer is pretty good, but its programming is incredibly tedious, and in the end not really much better than a well-made Octochron pattern.
The drummers in Logic Pro are pretty good, but quite limited in style, and of course you need the Logic subscription to use them.
I agree on the Logic Pro drummers, they do - at least partially - what you want to do but you don't have real control over them as the sequences are generated. You have some degree of control and you can always generate new patterns, but you can't go into details. The final output is usually superb though.
Actually, you can convert any Session Player to a MIDI or Pattern region to further tweak the generated pattern.
GarageBand, often overlooked, is free and has many of the same drum features of Logic Pro.
Another tip of the hat to Lumbeat - if you want "out of the box" drum patterns and performances with variations and fills I find them the easiest to use - just pick your groove, adjust the sliders and knobs for how busy you want the extras to be, adjust the timing from perfect to "drunk" and you've got something quite nice, that isn't just a repeating loop. It's not AUv3 of course, however you can export stems or a mix to audio or MIDI and import it into your project.
For MIDI drum sequencers with variation, Octachron is very nice - it plays a programmed sequence or generates one for you but has knobs that you can tweak to adjust for variations in the output, and it does it in a very smart way that sounds quite natural to me. Of course you need a drum app or sampler for it to trigger the samples on.
Regarding Logic it's as close as I know to one of the desktop based drum apps with the ability to tweak the actual parameters of the style and playback with some degree of sophistication, although the drum sounds are just OK imo.
I've played with a lot of iOS drum apps from Different Drummer (rather obscure, but amazing) to Logic Pro drummers, so this is based on a fair bit of experience, but keep looking - sometimes there are hidden gems out there. A quick search on YouTube for iOS drum apps will give you an idea of what's out there. Also , there have been a number of new apps that have been released recently that I have not tried - such as Klevgrand OneShot, and more in the pipe.
Only one Lumbeat app is AUv3 - the bass app!
The new JAmp Percussive app has some pretty decent capability for adding embellishments with some actual drummer intelligence behind them. See here: https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/64296/jamp-percussive-by-jan-maes-released
I've been just coming up with a groove, usually in Octachron, or sketched in live with Drambo or GR-2. Then I add in some really low velocity ghost notes just before or after the main notes of the groove. Then I turn down the probability of those strikes so they don't happen every time. With those sequencers you can also set cycle conditions so that certain hits only happen on say the 2nd of every 2 repeats, etc. Combining that with probability makes for more variation.
Fills can be faked that way too by using cycle conditions plus probability. I throw in some tom and cymbal hits at places where they make sense musically in a fill. Then set a cycle condition for to play only on bar 4 of every 4 bar cycle. I add in more hits than I want, then dial down the probability for all of them. The result is fills that make some musical sense, but are somewhat random.
That's how I do it when I'm feeling patient. When I'm not, I make the basic beat and then run it through two instances of AutoFills. One is set up to do straight-up one bar or half bar fills on the last bar of four, eight, or 16 bar cycles. The other is set to do short one or two beat fills, with everything turned to low velocity and low probabilities, every so many beats. I like to use off numbers of beats like 6, 9, 12 between fills, so that these extra notes show up in different places in the bar when they happen. It won't fool any drummer, but it's better than straight-up repeats.
We are still laboring under the assumptions implemented by many drum machines… is there a drum machine that has implemented time signature changes per bar and a nice collection of grace note decorated samples?
It appears splitting the sequencing of midi and the rendering of samples would provide the closest workflow.
I think ignoring the DAW’s limited time signature support and sequencing to the pulse and deciding which pulse is a “one” and mapping all drum events to unique midi notes.
Hopefully a developer sees opportunity to sell a dozen copies to the true drum fanatics out here.
Thanks! A very concrete mini drumming lesson. I do learnt alot. Also I watched some "finger drumming" video which is also mind blowing. I think I need a dedicate drum sequencer. Piano roll can do it but it's way slower. And you are absolute right to turn one core pattern sounds like an ongoing improvisation via probability and conditional triggering.
I'm really liking Octachron as a drum sequencer. Something about it seems more direct and accessible than other options for me. The fact that it has preset mappings for most drum machines is a bonus too.
Ah, yeah. I guess you're right. Thankfully, the drum apps can export both MIDI and audio.
Drum Perfect can do all the things requested, plus more. Probability based triggering of linked patterns for fills, chokes, multiple subdivisions across the same measure, you name it, it’s very deep. Many have been put off by the level of detail you can go into, but you don’t have to go overboard to get good results. Customisable with your own samples too.
Octachron supports polyrhythm! I'm double checking if that's what I think(same length divided by different beats)
edit: seems Patterning 3 can do what I want but I don't really like the cake interface...
It's going to individual get clock divider per lane too.
I used to think it was the best drum sequencing interface ever. I'm not as sure any more for my tastes. Octachron seems a bit more streamlined in some ways.
This is real polyrhythm then Octachron is a no brainer. And the fact it actually can also sequence musical notes makes it a ARP app too. I'm very selective because every app takes time to master before I can achieve 1+1>2.
I haven't owned any paid drum app(for the sound) yet. Any gems for me? I need both Acoustic/Electronic.
During my research one extra app caught my attetion, mKer step sequencer. This is not a drum sequencer but I think it can do the same plus much more. I think I will end up getting Octachron but I would like to study mKer a bit before pulling the trigger.
I expect you'll get a lot of recommendations for OneShot, and that would certainly be my top choice for a wide range of sounds, especially acoustic.
Again, the Lumbeat apps sound great, and as I've said those tracks can be exported as audio, even separated. DrumPerfect also has a good sample library but again, like Lumbeat... not AUV3.
The new release of DM10 offers a really good variety of classic electronic drum machines.
And one that is less likely to get a recommendation, but that I think produces really useful electrochunky percussion tone is DrumComputer.
Oneshot ( and percussive when complete )
Been setting up my controller and feel grid input sequencing now would be lame. Seems you can do way more with a controller.
I do need to capture sequences though per track and believe Drambo is faulty at the mo.
Battalion should be good for electronic depending on how to trigger in DAW.
Think Acoustic and battalion could be all the drums you need.
I mean just listening back.
It does sound more like hitting buttons compared to held patterns.
Still kinda good tho.
OneShot has finally put that to rest for me for acoustic drums. I don't see the need for anything else. (OneShot can do electronic drums too, and you can build your own kits of any genre). Drum Perfect Pro is also excellent, but I don't use it any more because AUv3 is just more convenient.
My most used for electronic drums is Ruismaker FM. It's that old shirt in the closet you wear every day ... because it's comfortable, even though you have other shirts that look better.
FAC Drumkit has the best sound for electronic drums IMO. That's the shirt you reach for when you take your wife out to dinner or when she hides your other one because she's sick of looking at you in it. It's also great for hybrid drums, mixing acoustic and electronic. It's fun to take a straight acoustic sound and add some electronic punch to it.
Ruismaker Noir for when I need to break out of the rut.
DrumComputer is hugely powerful for electronic, but way more work to learn and to craft sounds in. It has a wild sequencer too, with polyrhythms and all kinds of features. I just don't use it much. I find it too distracting and a bit of a resource hog.
Good idea. I can't help you there though. You might want to check out Prism as well.
There's something to be said for more universal sequencers that can do it all. If you want to be based in just one sequencer and not have to think about multiple apps, that's a good way to go. I'm more compartmentalized than that. I feel more focused with an apps that do one thing well.
Not really an arp app since it just plays what you sequence. It wouldn't output different notes if you feed it chords, for instance.
Which brings up a very important thing about Octachron. It's programming only. You can't record a drum beat into it by playing live. That's a big down-side in my book as I do like to start by tapping in a basic beat, then build from there.
@garden @sigma79 @wim
Thanks for all the recommendation. Will check all them out
I will just use the the piano-roll of whatever host for recording live playing. For instance, the common cymbals and bass drum roll at the end of rock tunes as the last clip/pattern. I think it's not a big issue as long as using the same drum sound app.
I really want to emphasize that these are just the apps that I find myself reaching for the most often because they're comfortable for me. I'm not a drummer and not someone who produces a lot of finished tracks. You shouldn't take anything I say as experienced advice.
Your experience is likely to be very different. I have tons of apps that I use and like for many reasons. These are just the ones that have slipped into my comfort zone.
Except for OneShot. That one is the clear winner for acoustic drums in an AUv3, or really for any sample based drums if you're into building your own kits.
The OP's initial point/intent is super valid I think. While we have offered up a lot of ideas, workaround's and alternatives, this lack of a good "parameter driven rhythm synthesis" is a hole. @janm31415 's Percussive's sequencer is the absolute best out of the box thing I've ever used. In fact I'd say that 90% of the value of that app is the sequencer, and not the manual sequencing part, but the knob-driven mutate part. I'd love to see the sequencer fork off and develop more abilities, like the ability to develop your own "vocabularies" in the drop down (single, roll, etc.). I really think Jan is onto something pretty revolutionary.
The ultimate drum sequencer would be one that takes into account drummers only have 4 limbs... So there should really be an idea where each limb gets it's own sequence and the sounds would be relevant to the voices those limb typically have access to (i.e. right foot=kick, left foot = had pedal, another kick, etc.) and then some parameter that control the probability and timing of the limbs and what thing they hit...
I think pretty much all drum machines and sequencer kinda get it wrong by having the sequencer directly address the voices (i.e. kick lane, snare lane, hat lane)
If I was a dev, as I've said before, this is the app/plugin/hardware unit I'd develop. Call it LimbSeq
Well said and I have similar thought ! As a guitar/bass player, how cool if there is a sequencer I can specify up/down pick, muting level, plucking area etc all on one interface.
Excellent @wim
@jklovemusic You may also want to check out Beat Scholar
https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/beat-scholar/id1632755445https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/beat-scholar/id1632755445
I studied this app as their pizza slices are great and I want it. But they have to edit velocity manually for every note which I cannot cope with.
I can export the midi for further editing but I rather pick a drum sequencer that handle the core drumming better and also do polyrhythm ,just not that easy as BS
Edit: but seriously when I need extreme polyrhythm I will get this app
Hey, I don’t have many apps but I know what I need I just don’t know these apps exist so you fill the gap very well. I will do my own research and your input is very valuable to me, thanks again
How true! At least for @Gravitas, @pedro and me