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Fishtail TestFlight Open as AUv3 — MIDI/CV generator with pitch-tempo lock, counterpoint
Kia ora everyone,
I’ve been building something called Fishtail, and I’d love to share the current browser build with people here:
https://amycin.github.io/amy-cin-fishtail/
Fishtail is a generative MIDI/CV music tool built around pitch-tempo lock, counterpoint, and musical “gravity” rules. The basic idea is that pitch, tempo, form, and harmonic behaviour are connected rather than treated as separate systems.
At the moment it can generate MIDI, project JSON, notes/reports, and optional CV WAV packages. It has form dice, counterpoint, Fishtail Fugue, DUB gravity, tempo lattice controls, and a Section Expression drawer with guarded Keyboard Bloom for restrained bass anchors, octave echoes, and shimmer.
I’m planning to take the core idea toward an AUv3 instrument after the web version feels musical and clear enough.
I’m especially interested in three kinds of feedback:
- Does the generated music feel useful or emotionally engaging?
- Does the interface make sense as a musical tool?
- Would anyone enjoy making/sharing presets or parameter recipes for it?
Visual/design feedback is also very welcome. I’m trying to make the app feel calm, tactile, and inviting across desktop, iPad, and eventually AUv3.
Thanks for having a look if you feel like trying it. I’m excited to hear what people make of it.
Ngā mihi nui,
Amy
Comments
Thanks to some lovely feedback from a visual artist - I have tweaked up the theme (Thank you Mary!) - I really appreciate the collaborative help I get from here and feedback - thank you - I think it is looking a lot nicer! My brain brains differently to other brains - and I found it hard to communicate Fishtail after using it personally for so long - into a web app - and hopefully into an AUv3 next! Fingers Crossed!
You already made a thread about this here a while ago, Amy, no? 😀
https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/68807/amy-cin-fishtail-midi-generator
Or is this different in some way?
Hi Gavinski - I did - you are right. I am trying to translate my braining into a way other people brain and did like - a massive redesign… and lol - sucked it up and set A at 440Hz when I much prefer 432 lol! (You can still change it though lol!)
I have made some experimental pieces and am trying out that piano app you recommend - PianoTeq - that is a mad good app! Like - really really nice!
Should I move the post somehow?
I’ve put my noodling around on the PianoTeq with this generator here - https://soundcloud.com/starlight-572491599
One day I woke with lots of energy and it’s a really funny piece lol!
By the by, I love your demonstrations Gavinski - you make beautiful music and have a lovely voice and manner in your presentations - really nice thank you - I enjoy them a lot! Thank you!
Nice to hear, thanks a lot Amy! With this generator, btw, is there any way you can demo its output before downloading, even just with a simple piano sound font or something? I think when I tried it a few weeks ago, that wasn't possible. But from your mention of Hz, I feel I must have somehow not noticed, but it is actually possible to audition outputs on the site?
Not at the moment sorry. I’m in the process of making it an AUv3 - and that will have a play button in it - but it will still need to be connected to a synth/instrument - I am trying to make it intuitive and easy to come to grips with - you are right - it will be easier when you can listen to it easier!
I just download the midi and load it into Atom at the moment to test quickly
I had the same thought as Gavinski...from a workflow standpoint it would be helpful to have some sort of audio preview of the sequence. As someone who is not very knowledgeable of music theory, scales, etc. I feel like I would need to hear the audio to determine if I wanted a certain progression or scale even. Clearly you know a lot of music theory and I'm sure the app makes sense to you.
Also...randomize or smart randomize buttons would be great along with the ability to lock certain parameters. I understand if this isn't the goal of the app, but it's helpful for dummies like me that don't know enough about music theory to really utilize what you've created. I think apps like Piano Motifs do a really good job of this without me having to know any sort of music theory. No worries if that's not your goal, just throwing it out there for others like me.
Hi as_in_the_skys,
I am just in the process of making it work as an AUv3 - it is nearly there…
I have not thought about making a synthesiser or piano plugin yet - to go with the app. I will think on it - that is two requests so it is obviously a useful thing…
The thing that has stopped me from making a synthesiser - is that this is - for me - quite a big thing. I really really really like synthesisers - and have lots of cool synthdefs in supercollider - but - I have not yet -
I could do like a sine wave kinda sine/tine thing or something I guess - it is just - that it sounds so bloody nice with other synths lol! Like the PianoTeq! Haha! I would love to plug the U4 into it!
I am on a mission to get this AUv3 loading… and I will try and see if I can add a synth sound - or soundfont or something. I really appreciate your feedback!
Hmm… Synth Goblin is thinking… I have a sidequest… that was not part of the plan. Hmm… but — yes - maybe - yes…
Does anyone have a good engine that you would like as a synth that is able to be used with credit or anything? I see lots of people are using DX7 style FM stuff - like - every synth I see these days has a DX7 built into it lol! It is like going back to the 80’s! I used to burrow a friends DX7 when I was a kid. I love them to be honest…
I just did a build till three in the morning last night trying to get this bloody AUv3 and Link running… It is getting closer…!!!
Also - I - this is designed to work with different intonations - so - it has to be a microtonal capable synth - some sort of MPE or Scala thing… hmm… that is another complexity - it is kinda hiding - but I made this to be a companion and test out my harmonic dub intonation idea - and I have these gravity style generation ideas - with that - kinda like brownian motion - with a small twist… hmm… you have got me thinking! Yay!
Oh, and the D4 and the D20 - they are weighted dice - I weighted them towards - what I hope is nice music when you push them - the D4 is small little simple piece - the D20 a bit bigger - more complex… I did some design about how the dice roll and what they produce…
From my results - what I really like - is a bit of swing - more irrational swing than you think - and - lots of rhythm motion - that seems to make Fishtail feel like it is swimming to me!
This seems very promising Amy, the outputs are pretty damn good for generated midi I reckon and can really be pretty cool put through an arp, thanks for this. Yes, would be nice to have this as an AUv3 I reckon, for sure.
+1 btw on @as_in_the_skies idea to have a random button haha. Maybe with locks so you can choose which things you don’t want randomized.
I ahh… the Fishtail is run on locks - tempi/pitch/colour - they relate. Making a synth is difficult if I want to showcase well - here is a track with the Continua 70’s style ep sound - demonstrating the lock with the dub intonation thing I am using sometimes. If you listen - you can hear the lock.
It is hard to describe in words.
:-) https://on.soundcloud.com/Cw5kRBaFiNhzHci9sM
@amy_cin i totally get it in terms of not adding an audio preview if the app is auv3. Super simple to route in AUM once the app is on iOS. I was thinking more for the web app it could be helpful.
Free idea that I wish I could create but I’m no app developer: an auv3 plugin that can open web hosted app/web pages for routing audio or midi inside a host like AUM. Then you could use apps like yours or even test out apps without jumping through all of Apples hoops to release an app on the App Store. It would be a great sandbox type app for testing ideas or proof of concept. Although from some research it seems web midi routing is maybe a limiting factor. Anyways just an idea.
I can make the browser make sound - it’s just that I don’t know that I want to - do you know what I mean? Like - making a synth generator is different to making a midi one/sync device - and there are already so many cool synths… I don’t know that I could add anything new - and may do an average job of the audio through the web…
AUv3 is coming along. I have been focusing on it - hyperfocus… and didn’t sleep at all the other night when I was building… I am up to build 182 as an AUv3, and it is starting to work for equal temperament at the moment
Like - in terms of intonation - does anyone have any likes?
Personally, I like Justonic and Harmonic intonations based on ratios - ET annoys me… but I could also add Well temperament… I am not sure which Justonic ones I can use. I have a special temperament that I made for myself - it kinda does good Bernard Herrman sounding music lol! I will put that in - I have a special - kinda like evolved counterpoint gravity rules for it…
Please only suggest temperaments I can use that don’t violate copyright or anything - I am happy to give credit - but I don’t want to steal anyones hard work…
Hi! I have taken the web app down — and am going to put the build into test flight soon… I am wondering about little things… like musical spelling - do people care about that? I notice a lot of iPad apps don’t use like - common musical spelling - and wonder if I should make it so that it corrects peoples spelling - or if people think it is a bug… or if it is a bug not having proper musical spelling… little things… I think Fishtailk is sounding great. I have tested it in AUM. I am not sure if it will work with Logic or Garageband. It is an audio AUv3 - but the audio output is only a metronome and pulse sound for tuning to the instrument - it outputs 8 channels of midi - I am pretty happy with it - it has taken a lot of work - I am on leave from work at the moment - so have had time to devote to this… it has been fun!
I’ll be hopefully back and posting soon with a test flight link after it has had an art pass by OcularDebris (She describes how the instrument will look).
Web app - and AUv3 are working well. I will be curious to see if others like it and find it useful!
@amy_cin are you from new zealand and perhaps maori?
I looked up the language of your intros signoff.
I am from New Zeland - not Māori - I say Kia ora by reflex as that is what we say in NZ - it means - may your future be healthy in all aspects of the word healthy - Ora is a cool concept in Te au Māori !!!
Oh yeah! You were all talking about randomisation or parts… the - dice - I have a D4 and a D20 at the moment. That means there is space for a D6, a D8 and a D12… Maybe even a D100 - if anyone wants to weight some behaviours when testing - let me know
I wonder how long Apple take to review things… I have it running as an AUv3 and hopefully for TestFlight soon.
TestFlight is open!
That was quite a lot of work!
I’m looking for testers for Fishtail, a generative MIDI AUv3 instrument for iOS/iPadOS. It requires a compatible AUv3 host and a connected software or hardware instrument. I’d especially appreciate testing in different hosts, MPE and pitch-bend tuning, and any analogue CV outputs you can validate.
TestFlight: https://testflight.apple.com/join/sW8tq4BE
I hope you like it!
It seems extremely interesting and capable of producing nice arrangements.
I’d love if Fishtail was able to sync with the host, like AUM.
And the UI is a bit sluggish…and it scrolls to the sides, which is not really needed.
Thanks for your feedback Nighur.
I made some compromises with the UI to make it try and flow - which I might change - I had some other feedback about problems with UI integration.
The tempo/pitch lock is actually kinda the point of Fishtail and I see it as a feature - not a bug lol! Typical thing for a developer to say haha! I think you may be able to get around the tempo lock by turning off Link after you generate. But I tried to make it so users keep Link on - Fishtail is designed to be a comptroller - so to take care of the tempo map (lattice) - and like I have kinda broken pitch with the Super Symmetry intonation - I have also broken time down - and the swing and rhythm engine is quite curious - and it relies on the Ableton Link to maintain tempi coherence.
That saying - I had another user saying they got annoyed by the Link lock - the pitch/tempo lock - which is kinda the point of Fishtail - but - I could remove that lock - i’m a little resistant too though - so i’m having a think about it.
I really appreciate you taking the time to give me feedback, and I am glad you are getting some nice arrangements! I hope they are real nice! I would love to hear some! I have been uploading my Fishtail tracks made during testing here:
https://soundcloud.com/starlight-572491599
I think it can make some really delightful music at times :-) and - Fishtail surprises me sometimes!
This is really interesting Amy, the outputs can sound very human and musical. Please share something about the process behind programming this, I think this has mad potential, it’s not sterile like 99% of generative midi apps are. Kudos!
Yeah, can’t wait for this to be out, it could be the only generator able to hold a candle to Piano Motifs
Oh! I've not heard of Piano Motifs - sounds cool - I'll have to check it out! Thanks for that!
Fishtail is a generative concept I have been using with my music for a long time now. It is a set of constraints I apply to myself in an attempt to create coherent music that is pleasing to me.
The unique feature from my perspective is, the tempo/pitch lock, and the Feel/Intonation section. I tried to make different intonations accessible and easy - as I love working with these intonations - these are ones I included - a couple are ones that I made up myself. I made up super symmetry with my partner, she is an artist and said my intonation and temperament should "look" like this in Entonal Studio - and super symmetry came out of it. It is curious to me, and can sound surprisingly musical (IMO) for an intonation that doesn't have a fixed home - it just implies it.
I added some generative algorythms - based on things I learnt at music school - counterpoint style, imitation and invention, fugue style (kinda), and my own personal approach I use.
At the heart of Fishtail, is also randomness. Randomness fascinates me and I obsess about it. I tried to make the random as random as possible so it would flow through Fishtail well, and enable it to be fast - and work on older phones and data pads. It takes 256bits from your devices CSPRNG, and applies algorithms to enlarge and whiten this small sample of random numbers. I used algorhythms based on modern cryptography algorhythms - so standard HKDF + ChaCha processing to the 256 bits. I measure effective randomness at 7.998 bits/byte, which, I personally think is unacceptable, bias, and has a definite curve, and - it is as random as we mere mortal humans are allowed unless we have a QRNG or QC or something - it is a thing that annoys me - random is weighted in all of our devices. I digress... sorry - that was a little side rant.
The swing engine, I am particularly proud of - I think it can produce musical sounding results with the available options. I like that Comptroller time breaks time haha! And - also - the rhythm motion - I think this produces musical results (to my ear). This applies - a wave - the length of the generated piece and makes - kinda like this ultra low LFO - like real low - below 0.001Hz even - and it is the length of the generated piece, and it modifies note position onto this tempo map (I call it a tempo lattice).
Essentially, Fishtail is an instrument designed to work with pitch and time in a fluid way, to swim in any environment, to use low system resource - to allow other insturments to shine, and to help people make things they like - if they like. I made the instrument for myself first - so it is coloured with my bias.
I started making music on the iPad a year or so ago, and find it a really nice way to create - frictionless - great software available - I love AUM and heaps of synths stuff - like a lot lot, and I wanted Fishtail to be able to swim in the same pond - so made her an AUv3 instrument... She does - like - this - I had to really scope myself. I am on leave from work to enable me to get time to create this instrument, and I have a lot of things I want it to do in my mind that I have not added. I kept it as minimum as possible. I have ideas for where to go next in my mind slowly forming.
Thanks Gav, it's really kind of you to ask about this. I am quite proud of Fishtail - she still has a few twitches - and quirks - and a lot of constraints - and - like - you can choose to use it or not - which is what I love about all these beautiful iPad music apps. They bring me a great deal of joy.
Ngā manaakitanga (with warm regards),
Amy
Thanks for the testing feedback so far. In the current build I am working on - I have addressed the jumpyness when clicking a section in the section arranger. Made the sliders easier to grab. And made it not go sideways when it is shrunk - that really helped with lots of things actually thank you - little things can make big difference. I am up to B338, and it feels solid. I am also tracing a crash that someone had. Has anyone had problems or anything to report on other systems?
I would love to know if anyone used the CV?
Hope you are all having a nice weekend - i’m gently tweaking Fishtail so she feels calmer and flows better! It’s really helpful to get feedback thank you