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Do any of you guys tune your kick samples? If so, how?
I like to tune my kicks in the same key of the song I'm working on and just bought Total Energy Tuner for this one reason. If theres a kick sample I like, Im going to run it through TE Tuner, see what key is it tuned to and adjust from there. Right now I plan on using BM2 to adjust the tuning but curious if there's a more efficient way of doing this using ios apps.
thnx in advance
Comments
Depends on the song. When I do it's just by ear. Sometimes jumping up or down by an octave first and then fine tuning can make it easier to hear. Then drop/bump the octave back.
Thanks syrupcore. Which app do you use for tuning?
I also try to do it by ear but check out Tonal Energy by the same dev who did Thumbjam. It gets specific to the cents.
I don't use a tuning app for it though I use the tc electronic app for tuning my guitar.
When I'm tuning a kick or a tom it's in Nanostudio or DM1.
Nah bro, I sample my kicks in tune.
Or at least I would like to. I saw this video and I'm inspired to try get something like it out of Animoog. Lol, maybe I'm ignorant on bass synthesis.
Anyway, here's the video. Skip the dramatics, and go to the bass at 0:45.
Sorry no help on your question...
@gjcyrus -
Seems like a lot of work to use a separate app for tuning when BM2 already has tuning down to the cent...
@syrupcore gave the exact same answer here as I did on the Intua forum... Kismet!
Beatmaker 2 seems the best way to go at this point because it will change the pitch without altering the length of the sample. I should be careful how I word that though, because I believe that it changes the pitch by making the clip shorter or longer, but then restores to the original length using timestretching. Tuning the bass kick is essential. Keep in mind nanostudio and thumbjam use the same process but don't time-stretch the result, as far as I know.
Thnx guys!
@ syrupcore - I didnt know you could tune kicks in NS or DM-1, cool.
@ dubhaus - yeah I saw that you gave the same advice as syrupcore. Great minds think alike. As for why I want to use a separate tool? Take for example the kick sound from BM2 Breakbeat category, Violent Breaks. I really like the dirt and feel of that kick but when I tried to tune it by ear to a sample I had, it was always either too sharp or flat. When I ran it through Tonal Energy, i could see it was off by a few cents. so even adjusting the semitones wouldnt have worked. Id have to use bm2's fine tuning and that isnt precise. A lot of stuff ive been working on requires a very pronounced kick and if it's slightly off tune, it sounds like shit to me and doesnt have the feel I want. Tonal Energy is the only spectral analysis tool and tuner on audiobus that i know of. So Im still using BM2 to tune the kicks but using TE as a reference both for tuning AND frequency. that same violent breaks kick sounds like a angry tiger in my earbuds but like a pussycat on car stereo so im also looking to add a subkick at around 20 hz to beef it up.
@hmtx - so you know the key of the kicks upfront? how so? are you sampling from songs for a library where they tell you the key?
@AQ808 thnx for the timestretch info. never knew that. Also, cant remember but did you have those kick samples on dropbox or was that somebody else? seeing as you have 808 in your name, thought you might know of where to get some rumblin bass samples. Do you ever go on Intuas forum? I think theres a thread where theyre giving out free bm2 samples
@AQ808 said "Beatmaker 2 seems the best way to go at this point because it will change the pitch without altering the length of the sample. I should be careful how I word that though, because I believe that it changes the pitch by making the clip shorter or longer, but then restores to the original length using timestretching. "
That's not true. You can manually time stretch samples, but its not that great unless your trying to mangle it on purpose.
It doesn't do it automatically, but just like you said, it pitches up and down and shortens and lengthens the sample as a result.
@gjcyrus I hear that. Maybe one day that could be a feature that all samplers use.
Edit- PS- be careful all the way down there at 20hz. Just eating up valuable headroom. What you might try is 40-60hz if you want an oomph..
@dubhaus - thnx for the tip. Actually how do you go about layering your samples to get a nice juicy kick? the kick i referenced above already registers around 50 hz. Do you think another one at 40 hz is too close? also, I dont have much experience in how electronic kicks translate in club/live venue environments (ive played live lots but with live drums but never really spent time seeing how certain kicks at certain frequencies affect ppl in those environments.)
I might be mistaken but I think Bjork mixed one of her albums in a way so that ppl who were listening on earbuds would hear the mix a certain way but if you had the subwoofers and system to handle it, a person could also hear other elements of her mix that wouldnt translate thru earbuds
@gjcyrus Sorry my comment was totally off topic, talking abut synthesizing kicks and bass. I do realize you are talking about using samples of drums. Nonetheless, I thought you would appreciate the YouTube as inspiration, and might like to know that creating your own synthesized kicks are a possibility in iOS.
I don't have a lot of experience with sub bass synthesis, but I spend a bit of time with Animoog and have found ways to create synth kicks from scratch. So the idea is * make* samples by pressing the key , record it, then trim it down to a synthesized sample to use later. A key factor in this technique is sending Animoog thru EQ and compression effects, since the sub bass coming from Animoog is such low volume level.
But you are right, it's hard to get the kick in tune even when generating them on a keyboard. So, carry on, I'll be reading more informed comments with interest
@hmtx - haha, no worries man. sorry i just watched the youtube vid was reminded that i need proper monitoring to appreciate the low end of my mixes.
Very cool idea. Is Animoog the best synth for this job? The nice thing about your idea is if there was a way to pick the exact frequency of your sample and layer it with another kick sample. kinda like what dubhaus said to me earlier in thread. This one kick that i like sounds thin on my car speakers but maybe having one of these animoog samples combined with a snappy kick sample might produce an interesting combo?
@dubhausdisco Are we talking about the same thing?
This is from p.66 of the manual for Beatmaker 2 from their site in regards to the Sample Lab:
"B.3. CHANGING THE TEMPO OR PITCH OF A SAMPLE
When working with audio samples to compose songs, you may often need to adjust their tempo or pitch (tune) so that they sound right with the rest of your project.
The traditional pitch-change technique has the side effect of a change in the tempo as well as the tune. Using BeatMaker 2 Time-Stretching and Pitch-Shifting algorithms, you can change the tempo of a sample without affecting its tuning, and change its pitch without altering the playback speed."
After that, it explains use of the two.
@gjcyrus Not me
Probably Buddemeyer? Anyways, I would definitely pull my rumbling bass from either a synth, or my actual bass guitar. I really like the basses from Sunrizer personally, much punchier out of the box compared to others while staying focused in the bass range. I like Animoog when the bass is the focus of the song, but even the bass specific tones have a lot of high frequency content you may want to shelve while mixing in tracks with other instruments.
However, tuning the kick is the best way to get a combined bass and kick in one go, because when you mix bass and kick as separate instruments, you will wind up having to choose one over the other as they share prominence In the same frequencies.
I'm getting my kicks from Figure, since it really is just the Kong Drum Designer in Reason, and you can tweak them a bit. The percussive sounds from Impaktor are very nice too.
@AQ808 maybe I misread what you posted... It sounded like you meant BM2 automatically time stretched while pitch shifting to preserve the length of the sample, which it doesn't. My bad.
IMO the time stretching quality of the app would never lend itself to a transient sample such as a kick or snare, as it just gets too grainy...
I think you'd have to have a kick sample with an atrociously poor sample rate to notice any quality change on a single short sample, as long as it is being limited by pitch-shifting.
If you were just to flat out try to time-stretch a short sample for the heck of it without any limit, you will destroy it fairly quickly.
That said, that is exactly why you need 96k sample rate recordings for mixing, so that you can time-stretch without any noticeable detriment.
I really, really hope audiobus will be able to have an option for 96k at some point.
Beatmaker 2 and Auria support mixing of 96k tracks. I'm curious which others do. Auria just got Dirac Pro-based time stretching.
Auria does indeed support recording and mixing 96k files, but for the record BM2 simply converts any file you throw at it to 44.1/16bit.
I am certainly not going to go down the sample rate road here, as everyone has their own opinions regarding the benefits vs drawbacks of higher sample rates.
I will say that anything above 48k on the iPad is likely going to tax the system too much to make it worthwhile.
Interesting, so Beatmaker 2 accepts any sampling rate, and resolution up to 24bits, but converts it into the track at 44.1/16 on import? Or, does it convert everything to 44.1/16 on mixdown, after mixing? I really can't easily find the answer to that anywhere.
Yup, on import. Its audio engine is 44.1/16bit, so everything imported has to be converted to the native format first.
Now, that being said, I am not knocking BM2 for that, as its my sequencer of choice. I just choose not to mix in it.
Is @Ryan ok?? All this talk about BM2, and he hasn't chimed in yet?
On a side note, now that we have the +1 -1 rating system for comments, why are people going thru and flagging seemingly neutral comments and stuff? Childish...
That deserved a +1 @Dubhausdisco!
Weird. I'd prefer the ratings weren't on this board at all. Just ignore it, I guess.
Never been a fan of user rating systems on forums. I've seen a few boards where users would plead for posters to rate them if they thought their reply was useful. Quite silly in my opinion.
Not sure how the system here works as I don't pay attention but I am glad no one is pleading.
@funjunkie27 I'm all good sir. Just busy with some more stuff. I don't have anything to add to this conversation. I just use my ears to tell me what sounds good. These number guys need numbers. I can't help with that. :-) I hope all is well with you.
@Ryan...sir?? no one calls me that unless they owe me money ;-) Glad to hear you're doing well. Doing fine too....just too many apps and never enough time!
@Ryan. "Numbers guys need numbers" lol! Use your ears! No need to get technical.....
LoL heh if I learn all the tech I won't need to hire you guys to mix my albums. ;-)
Reminds me of that quote.
"Numbers make my brain feel numb. Perhaps that's why they're called numbers."
Depends on the style of music guys. i played in a death metal band two decades ago and we didnt give a fuck about what the key of the kick was. But if you're in a loud club and the kick is a huge focal point (ex. house where the kick is just boom boom boom boom) or even chilled out electronica stuff where the kick sample may have other elements like a flute, strings trumpet (lots of hip hop stuff have this like maybe wutang clan) and its basis of song where it hypnotizes you, if its off key it sounds like shit. pure and simple. also, ive got the fabulous tonal energy tuner by sonosaurus (thumbjam developer) and 99 percent of kick samples are off by few cents so just using your ears isnt accurate. if i can get something as close as possble, why not. try tuning your e string off by a few cents and play an e chord vs a nicely tuned guitar. youll hear what i mean.
peace
For those of you unfamiliar with EQ, frequencies and that sort of thing, watch this. Your mixes will automatically sound better no matter what style of music.
It's an older video where the guy is discussing EQ in FL Studio but he describes finding the sweet spot (or sweeping the EQ) You can use Remaster on FX or the Fabfilter ProQ to accomplish same thing.