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"Generative" music apps feel wrong and yet oh-so-right

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Comments

  • Gadget on it works fine as day goes by. You can slowly practice keys follows chords or vice versa with pad and arp of any synth with.

  • I'm sorry I don't quite understand. Do you mean that with practice I will learn the keys/chords from Navichord and then play then directly in Gadget, rather than via Navichord? This is fine, just don't want to be missing something.....still very taken with the simple possibilities it gifts the ear with....

  • edited June 2015

    @JohnnyGoodyear

    No, Sir! Nothing missing there. You play by using Navichord and record the midi note to Gadget.

  • edited June 2015

    @Kaikoo said:
    JohnnyGoodyear

    No, Sir! Nothing missing there. You play by using Navichord and record the midi note to Gadget.

    Thank-you. It is at my end (or the end of Gadget, or in the middle somewhere) that I am having some 'communication issues' then. I will take a stick to it (or myself), but first a thousand years of sleep.

  • Hi there,

    I'm Denis the developer of Navichord.

    @Kaikoo, thank you for mentioning Navichord!

    @JohnnyGoodyear, if you have any problem with the app, please let me know. I will try to resolve it asap.
    I recommend to go through the youtube channel (there is a link in the app) to get a good overview on features.

  • @thus said:

    It's funny you're mentioning auxy as an example of generative music app.
    I don't think it is generative -- it is not generating anything, just a minimalist piano roll that is easy to use and so removes some barriers.
    It is a simple and well designed composition and jamming tool, everything you make with it is totally yours -- auxy is not more "generative" than let's say Gadget.

  • That is a very good point, @nick. Auxy is not generative; just super easy and productive.

    All this good feedback has been very motivating, not to mention the additional iOS apps I need to check out!

  • @thus

    Catch up! Good man!

  • To go back to the original point, I don't think there is any wrong or right (there never is in art), only personal preference.

    Personally I like to create the actual musical elements (rhythm, harmony, melody) myself, and generally through performance (which might be fixed later), even though I'm not the greatest musician. I don't like using drum loops or even arpeggiators because I need to feel that I made the music myself for it to be creatively satisfying.

    On the other hand I'm quite happy to use synth presets, I see sound design as being quite separate from composition.

    For example, one benefit of creating your own drum/rhythm parts is that it teaches you how these are put together. That in turn can help you write better melodies because rhythm is a huge part of melody, and it also helps to write better songs because groove is important to songwriting. I've made loads of mistakes when creating my rhythm parts, with bad timing and poor groove, but as ever it's from those mistakes that I've been able to improve my understanding of rhythm.

  • @Navichord, I have some stuck notes with some synths. As it happens with more than one, I'm presuming Navichord is occasionally not sending a note off message?

  • Hi @Fitz, please share what are the synths and how to reproduce stuck notes. Does it happen with many apps in the background or right after restart (nothing in the background)? I will try to reproduce and fix.

  • @nick said:
    thus said:

    It's funny you're mentioning auxy as an example of generative music app.
    I don't think it is generative -- it is not generating anything, just a minimalist piano roll that is easy to use and so removes some barriers.
    It is a simple and well designed composition and jamming tool, everything you make with it is totally yours -- auxy is not more "generative" than let's say Gadget.

    Yep, I was thinking this as reading this thread. Auxy, with Midi Out, is totally your own composition. Auxy just makes it easy to come up with a "scale locked" composition.

    Figure is an interesting one. Evetually stuff is going to "sound like Figure" if you use it a lot - the combination of those 16 different rhythm settings and the in built sounds does eventually sound a bit samey. But if you go easy on using Figures Rhythms "off the peg" and you get creative with tweaking the sounds a lot - then I think you can make original sounding stuff - especially if you mix it with other apps. @JakobHaq does some really innovative stuff with Figure on his videos.

  • @Navichord Hi Dennis, good to see you here and thanks for your note.

    I only bought this app yesterday and found it very interesting, simple enough to use but also pleasantly different (a relatively rare combination at this point :). I did struggle to get sound out of Korg Gadget, and will try again today, especially as @Kaikoo indicates he has had no problem with it. Can you confirm what settings I should select in Navichord (just in case I am doing something obviously stupid; a common problem hereabouts :)

    Thanks again and congrats on the app.

  • edited June 2015

    Have you checked the Navichord velocity setting on midi page? If low enough, you can not hear any Gadget sound coming out! Gadget midi page setting to Auto.

  • @Kaikoo said:
    Have you checked the Navichord velocity setting on midi page? If low enough, you can not hear any Gadget sound coming out! Gadget midi page setting to Auto.

    Thank you Captain. Slept in late. Beautiful day here today. Going to go swim half a mile at Barton Springs, refresh this cloudy head and then try again. Good to see Mister Dennis here.

  • edited June 2015

    Enjoy swimming! I think Amsterdam and London has no sound through Navichord! I check many other little Gadget instruments, They run smoothly with Navichord!

  • I'm jealous, swimming sounds wonderful today!

  • @navichord

    Hi Denis, good to see you here! Thank You once more to bring further midi enhacement to users! There maybe a little confuse what this app can do as a thoughtful instruments. New music players seems miss the greater potential on Navichord! So I think a bit of manual documentry and publicity can make it more rewarding for you as a developer. And maybe some future planning can be address here. People can have a chance to try out your products!

  • edited June 2015

    @Kaikoo, you are completely right, the app doesn't have a manual and it takes some time to grasp the concept. It is also on my todo list. Together with midi controllers ;)
    I didn't use much Audiobus forum before, it looks like a nice place indeed. I will certainly post new updates here from now on.

  • @Navichord said:
    Kaikoo, you are completely right, the app doesn't have a manual and it takes some time to grasp the concept. It is also on my todo list. Together with midi controllers ;)

    Wow! A midi controller feature with Navichord? That will bring fantastic sound through! Such features like Midi CC assigment can put lots synth players exciting! Thank you!

  • Hi Denis ( @Navichord )

    Great to have you on here.

    I just bought your app...

    I get most of it, but i'm a little confused about the "pin" icon and whether, as you play different chords, you are keeping to the chosen scale or moving from scale to scale (it seems like the latter!). Also I seem to miss the second chord in the scale.

    Is there any chance you could summarise the basic principle / working of the app here in a few paragraphs?

    Thanks

  • edited June 2015

    @Navichord said:

    Btw, How to change octave up & down with midi quickly? Can I adjust octave in front of keyboard? I know it's hard for such tiny interface! Or is it not so important when playing chord with key on the fly! I am really dunno here!

  • Long ago, I Iived near 200 feets away from Bondi beach, Sydney. Good surfing place! also good for jogging along the coast.

  • Hi @Matt_Fletcher_2000,

    Pinning will be reworked in new versions.
    Right no by default minor and major chords will change scale highlighting. In other words, if you press Cmajor, the scale will change to Cmajor. Press Dminor, the scale will change to D minor. Pinning blocks scale change. This logic is not very straightforward, so I will rework it later.

    I wrote the app to help myself with piano chords and keys. In the beginning there was only minor/major scales. I had my midi keyboard connected and as I went through some chord progressions on the keyboard, the app was telling me what is the scale matching the chord so I could improvise on that scale.

    The other use is to make chord progressions. On the grid the chords are organized by hamonic distance, ie close chords sound harmonically continuous (perfect for verses), distant chords bring big harmony changes (good for choruses).

    For more info please check youtube videos and a small tutorial in iTunes description:
    "On chord progressions:
    With the grid layout good sounding chords are geometrically close to each other. For example, C major is right next to F major and G major. Harmonically distant chords are further away on the grid. This makes it very easy to select a good next chord. For subtle chord variations, pick the chords sharing the same notes, for dramatic variations pick the chords a bit away from each other.
    The harmonic grid makes it very easy to play chords. Major chord always has a shape of triangle facing up (as on the app icon). Minor chord is a triangle down. To play major or minor chords just touch the triangle center. The notes will light up and the chord name will be shown above the harmonic grid. Augmented and diminished are played with 3 touches on diagonals. Sixths, sevenths and ninths consist of a minor/major triad (one touch) + 6,7,9 or another major/minor triad (one touch), i.e. 2 touches. Same chord shape can be reused for any root note. The root is highlighted with yellow color.

    On melody creation:
    When you press a chord on the grid, the notes will be highlighted on the piano keyboard, so you can create a melody using those notes."

  • edited June 2015

    Yep - thanks @Navichord - that all makes sense to be honest. And I figured out the confusion with the II chord - it's because it's dimished (in the minor scale I was trying).

    Pinning to lock the scale makes sense... being able to shift to a new scale is kind of cool too.

    One think that might be useful is a 'hold' button for the top area (chords) so that you don't need to hold you 1, 2 or 3 fingers in position the whole time while trying out melodies over that chord...

    Great app though... i'm going to try midi out later.

  • @Kaikoo said:
    Long ago, I Iived near 200 feets away from Bondi beach, Sydney. Good surfing place! also good for jogging along the coast.

    I've been on Bondi once, beautiful place :)

    @Kaikoo said:
    Btw, How to change octave up & down with midi quickly? Can I adjust octave in front of keyboard? I know it's hard for such tiny interface! Or is it not so important when playing chord with key on the fly! I am really dunno here!

    This is tricky as there is no much screen space. I have some ideas on how to implement it, give me some time. Chords octave change looks less important than the piano.

  • @Navichord said:

    Yes Sir! Navichord is highly recommended for any synths players here! Of course it is very user friendly for beginning music app players. For Korg Gadget friend. I like it to record the notes.

  • edited June 2015

    @Navichord @Kaikoo Can't seem to make it hear/work/play anything out of Gadget I've tried....however works well with iM1 and Module. Also can sound beautiful with Synthmaster (Hard Santoor!) and no doubt lots of other things....Seems like a perfect addition to the wistful man's quiver.

    For anyone else who's wondering what we're talking about, here's the little piece Sir Doug did on this app a while back:

  • @JohnnyGoodyear,
    Do you have Gadget background audio enabled? It is in iPad settings, not in the app itself. Just tried it, seems to work fine. Of course, it needs enabling Gadget output in Navichord midi settings.

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