UK Garage jam in Korg Gadget

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
This is apparently 'post-dubstep' - so therefore Garage influenced... And at 130BPM... Anyway, it's great I think. Have a listen:

No, no, no! What the XXXX was that???? (bloody YouTube must have copied the link to the next random video)

What I meant to post was this :

Amazing I think.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@touchconspiracy

Interesting. I really like:

• the bass - you always manage great basses

• the vocal sample

• the filtered pad from 1 minute in

• the synths from 1 minute in

• the kick drum

I have a slight problem with it sounding quite recognisably Gadget. I think it's the snare (think its the one from the Junglist kit in London? Maybe another kit, but it's a bit high for me and I guess ive heard it too much) and the 'Lore' sound (from Keiv or Darwin?) that sounds like rain. Just heard them a bit too much.

The drum pattern sounds maybe a bit basic too? (I know the same could absolutely be said for mine). Or a bit plodding or something? But I know it's just work in progress so drum track probably far from finished.

Be interested to hear the rest though. And the above is just my opinion - ignore at will!

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Disclosure (often referred to as Garage... Pretty much a 4-4 beat as far as I can hear)... But a distinctive garage sound. Maybe not UK Garage though...

JohnnyGoodyear

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 HA! I listened to at least 15 mins of your first previous monster post, started to write, deleted, sat on my hands. Hey, everyone's got toast .

Dunno what this last one is (Evelyn), for me it feels like funk and soul in the modern tongue. I like it. Could dance to it, could make out to it. Two leading prerogatives for much music for many of us after all....and a good example (for me) of how samples don't have to be generic etc. Not perfect, but a good direction. Don't love the end, think it kind of peters out as though they lost a sense of what a killer finish might be, but lots of like here.

ADD: The LAST last one (Disclosure) I found well done but far more generic. Toast again.

touchconspiracy

Thanks Matt..

Was the newham kit in London actually, after reading your feedback I listened again, it's a bit too high in the mix I think. I'll adjust maybe change it.

I love the lore sound from Darwin tho, that stays!!!! But agree about the beats. Was just a basic start. I've got to listen to a lot of garage to get a feel for the varieties of beats and beat change ups first. But I'm happy and confident so far.

Not gonna rush this track..I've been wanting to go in new directions for awhile, have a break from my techno and dnb, cause I like most electronica and am not exclusive to one genre

Over all, was a 1.5 minute work in progress I posted to put my money where my mouth is so to speak, cause I'm serious about music and I told u and the others here I'm gonna give it a go.

I have a feeling, good feeling I might make a few tracks like this. I love the energy actually.

Anyway, it's your fault lol? You started the ios garage uprising:)

Look forward to more of it from u too matey!

And thanks, I'm quite happy bout it

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
touchconspiracy

Interesting. I really like:

• the bass - you always manage great basses

• the vocal sample

• the filtered pad from 1 minute in

• the synths from 1 minute in

• the kick drum

I have a slight problem with it sounding quite recognisably Gadget. I think it's the snare (think its the one from the Junglist kit in London? Maybe another kit, but it's a bit high for me and I guess ive heard it too much) and the 'Lore' sound (from Keiv or Darwin?) that sounds like rain. Just heard them a bit too much.

The drum pattern sounds maybe a bit basic too? (I know the same could absolutely be said for mine). Or a bit plodding or something? But I know it's just work in progress so drum track probably far from finished.

Be interested to hear the rest though. And the above is just my opinion - ignore at will!

touchconspiracy

Nah, that's uk garage, a bit slow but it got that swing:)

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Disclosure (often referred to as Garage... Pretty much a 4-4 beat as far as I can hear)... But a distinctive garage sound. Maybe not UK Garage though...

JohnnyGoodyear

@touchconspiracy interesting stuff. Good start. Agree the kit might be a bit high (in the mix or just high end), but that might be headphones I'm listening to it on also (although they tend to the bass side, so I compensate between the ears mostly...)

touchconspiracy

The snare is too high for sure, I gotta listen closer and emulate whatever type of kick and snares they use. Not used to this genre right now cause I was djing it in 2010 but then went back to techno and dnb. I love it tho, gonna focus on it exclusively for awhile ( research) and see if I can nail it.

I know a lot of the London producers and good mates at sub.fm , so I'm gonna get their support, feed backs etc , maybe gleam a few secrets from them lol

Anyway, all good, cheers for listening and helping confirm about the snares

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
touchconspiracy interesting stuff. Good start. Agree the kit might be a bit high (in the mix or just high end), but that might be headphones I'm listening to it on also (although they tend to the bass side, so I compensate between the ears mostly...)

solador78

The swing setting thing is interesting. How much does it really matter? solador78 posted a useful chart on mapping Gadget swing settings to the original MPC ones (you can't get gadget to match mathematically exactly). But then I've heard that the drum samples used in the MPC had random irregular silence in front of the hits and actually that was what caused the interesting groove. Surely you're better moving the swing up and down in Gadget until you hear a groove that suits your track, rather than trying to match some magic formula?

Sorry, but I find Gadget's Swing function almost totally useless because it can dial in at most 2 useful settings from the Linndrum magic formula: 58% (25 in gadget) and 66% (triplets, 50 in gadget). On the other hand, every setting on a linndrum/mpc/electribe between 50 and 75 is musical and doesn't sound disjointed and plodding like it was made with different drummer with random amounts of silence in front of the hits.

It doesn't really matter though because all of the reggae/dub/dancehall grooves that i like to program don't even call for swing.

Keep up the good work Matt! Haters gonna hate...

JohnnyGoodyear

There's a painter in New York called Frank Stella, been around forever (born in 36), and I was thinking of him today in the context of this ongoing (I guess discussion we have about styles and validity and expression and relative value and all of that. In 1966 he said:

“I found out that I just didn’t have anything to say in those terms (such as handwriting in paint, like De Kooning and other Abstract Expressionists) I didn’t want to mask variations; I didn’t want to record a path. I wanted to get the paint out of the can and onto the canvas. …I tried to keep the paint as good as it was in the can.”

and I liked this enough when I first read it to get out my notebook and copy it down. It's not that I particularly look up to Frank Stella, or like his work a bunch more than anyone else or admire his output, but I knew when I read this -even without knowing much about him then- that this was an artist, someone who was going about his business and that's maybe what real art, not the bullshit variations, is; going about your business as best as you see it and as best as you can. Anyhow, thought I'd share what he had to say.

On another note, I may also write something called The Bullshit Variations as a reminder not to take myself too seriously (just in case I'm ever in danger of that .

JohnnyGoodyear

Here's a Frank Stella painting ('Blue Horizon' from 1958):

Kaikoo

Hehe, @JohnnyGoodyear

This can be a nice iPad wallpaper

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Looks like a blue bamboo leaf. Thanks for posting @johnnygoodyear

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Hi @solador78

Been thinking about what you said above about Gadget's swing setting being crap.

So do you think this crazy idea would work to get Roger Linn swing settings in Gadget?

• set up you drum pattern in something with MPC style swing and midi out. Maybe Funkbox? BM2? Genome (I'd need to check).

• MIDI out your pattern live with Gadget recording it into London etc.

• In fact all you'd need to do is set up a patten with hits on the 16ths? Then get those into gadget by midi recording in? Maybe a drum hit on 1.1.1 to mark the start of the bar so you could pull back to the start of the bar in Gadget.

• then you could carefully use these swung 16th notes as a template (with the new copy and paste in Gadget) for any clip where you wanted swung 16th hits or notes

Flawed?

Matt_Fletcher_2000

I'll answer my own question... Sadly that doesn't work - although I'm not 100% sure why.

If you drive Gadget drums from FunkBox (turning funkbox internal sounds down) it's great. You hear the swing settings nicely at different settings between 50 and 75. So the midi is accuarate enough to cope.

But sadly when you hit record in Gadget to capture this (with Quantise in Gadget set to off) - what you render to the piano roll is wrong. 16th hits are not offset, with everything else being on the line. In fact notes at the start of bars are slightly delayed occasionally. And random hits are slightly off. But generally it looks quantised. That's at 56. At 64 it seems to work better. Although 8th hits that should be on the line aren't always perfect.

alexbuga

I kind of like it, although it feels like the harmonies are random-ish.

I'm no "connaisseur" of UK Garage, but as far as I know the drums on that genre are more punchy. I remember Artful Dodger.

R_2

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Here's a Frank Stella painting ('Blue Horizon' from 1958):

A visionary man
I wouldn't be surprised if Gadget's random title generator comes up with 'Blue Horizon' some day.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Possible solution...

Slow tempo down in FunkBox/Gadget to half speed. Or quarter speed. Record into Gadget and see if it deals better with printing it to the piano roll correctly.

Or just give up and do swing manually by ear on the Gadget piano roll. I'm tending towards this...

I do like FunkBox into Gadget though! It's really easy to mess around live with global accents and individual hit velocities as the drums loop round... Great for getting an initial groove going. You can also hit some rolls by hand on the drum pads. And it sync-starts Gadget too if you want to hear it with your bassline. It will also send it's own bassline out to another synth if you want.

solador78

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Here's a Frank Stella painting ('Blue Horizon' from 1958):

If you like blue, I also recommend Joan Miró's Triptych Blue I, II, III.

solador78

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Possible solution...
Or just give up and do swing manually by ear on the Gadget piano roll. I'm tending towards this...

Or up-vote or re-submit the following ticket on the Korg forum, please and thank you:

https://support.korguser.net/hc/communities/public/questions/202951570-Gadget-Swing-Control

JohnnyGoodyear

@R_2 said:

Brilliant spot on the Gadget likeness

JohnnyGoodyear

@solador78 said:
If you like blue, I also recommend Joan Miró's Triptych Blue I, II, III.

Between Miró and Rothko I could stare at color all day long....

solador78

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Between Miró and Rothko I could stare at color all day long....

As long as it's not Matisse's indigo... ugh

JohnnyGoodyear

@solador78 said:
As long as it's not Matisse's indigo... ugh

And I thought drum machines were subjective

Matt_Fletcher_2000

This is quite an interesting article / set of tips on swing:

http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/offbeat-eighths-and-all-that-jazz.html

solador78

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
This is quite an interesting article / set of tips on swing:

Cool! There's a reason why they call the precursor to UK Garage "New Jack Swing"..

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Smooth... I remember New Jack Swing

Edit: although less keen on the misogynistic lyrics...

solador78

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Edit: although less keen on the misogynistic lyrics...

80s aids psa:

"If I were you I'd take pre-cautiooooooooooooon!"

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Yep. And the name of the song of course.

Halftone

@touchconspiracy said:
Ok, here's what my first attempt sounds like so far..

I don't know anything about UK garage or similar styles - but I like this whatever you'd call it. Some cool stuff going on there. It's electronic music - and I love many styles of it - even the stuff that can't easily be classified