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Windows 10 Audio Production Discussion

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Comments

  • edited August 2015

    I personally got fed up with iOS, waiting 4 gens for an extra gig of ram and then waiting for the apps to catch up and then waiting for a proper daw and then waiting for the latest gadget update and so on.....having a ton of synths, loopers etc with no great way of connecting and saving them all.

    I now have a surface pro 3 with Ableton Suite, Synthmaster, Sunrizer, Z3ta, Fab Filter suite etc etc......maybe I have low standards but to my initial surprise I have not missed the iPad Air 2 at all with the exception of its form factor.

    I thought it might sting a bit having spent a ton of cash on apps but I am a happy chappy.

    Windows 10 seems to be where apples heading ie a universal operating system so we shall see what the future holds.

    I think BitWig looks great on surface.

    Still keeping an eye out for iPad pro....

  • I'd love to see a dedicated OS streamlined for Music, only real chance of that is if 'indies' produced something like say a refined Linux Distro, but then it would need to combine a Windows/Mac wrapper for all the wealth of software-plugins already available, but really OS cutting edge tech is aimed at games, entertainment, we using it for Music Production are really an afterthought.

  • I do miss Borderlands Granular tho and Samplr...

  • @DaveMagoo said:
    I do miss Borderlands Granular tho and Samplr...

    There's a reasonably priced plugin called 'The Mangle' you may want to look at http://sound-guru.com/software/mangle/

  • @knewspeak said:
    There's a reasonably priced plugin called 'The Mangle' you may want to look at http://sound-guru.com/software/mangle/

    Will try the demo...thanks...

    ...I also need to pay more attention to Max for Live....maybe there is an alternative within that...

  • edited August 2015

    As far as more the details of MS changes to the framework it's here. https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2015/3-634

    The changes are deep, deeper than indicated in the video, driven partially by a group of musicians within MS (of which there are many) and have the blessings of the company. It's been on the to-do list for years now but it's been challenging to get it into the pipeline until 8 came along. In the context of just the PC (disregarding phones and tablets) it's pretty obvious what they did. They just got the work done on the audio engine and streamlined development workflow in the process. If you download the sample code you see they've been busting their ass to get this out. It's pretty damn clean and straightforward too. Makes me miss being a developer....a little bit.

    To understand MS contributions to the PC audio processing architecture (of which there are many) you have to dig kind of deep back to OpenAL and then follow what everyone else, including Apple, have done based on that API. Both companies have had different takes, different approaches, some revolutionary and some not so much.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenAL

    Now that the framework is in your Win 10 machine, you're already enjoying some of the basic native enhancements, but really just have to wait for the 3rd parties to build on the new framework to take advantage of remaining native enhancements not enjoyed by a simple OS upgrade.

    So whether you like iOS OSX or Windows they're both making serious strides in the last couple years because they've both woken up to what they need to work on. You'd be hard pressed to see a difference in mentality to that between the two companies in the last 3-4 years. It's not like the 90's or the turn of the century any more. Apple vs MS hate arguments are useless and lost their context years ago. It's a matter of preference and the rest is baseless wannabe nerd bigotry. Insiders at Apple and MS even know that. They're of similar mindsets and that's a really good thing for everyone, especially them, then back to us.

    P.S. The "send feedback to Apple/Microsoft" feature that everyone has blown up privacy concerns about is a big factor, since about Win 7, in MS understanding of the work that actually needed to be done and continues to do so. Food for thought.

  • edited August 2015

    @Proto said:
    You think you need this high specs to create some music on a windows pc? Dont know why you think you need 64gb ram to have a stable windows machine

    The motherboard I'm looking at will accept up to 64 but 32gb may just do it. I've not met a computer yet that can handle my tracks without bouncing processor heavy tracks to audio.. And I left it late before moving over to computers in 2006.. And besides it future proofs me to some extent.

    I think windows 10 and surface have proved you can have a proper operating system on a tablet. A proper operating system on an ipad could solve a lot of issues.

  • @KDub Thanks for the input/overview. Appreciate it.

  • @KDub said:

    So whether you like iOS OSX or Windows they're both making serious strides in the last couple years because they've both woken up to what they need to work on. You'd be hard pressed to see a difference in mentality to that between the two companies in the last 3-4 years. It's not like the 90's or the turn of the century any more. Apple vs MS hate arguments are useless and lost their context years ago. It's a matter of preference and the rest is baseless wannabe nerd bigotry. Insiders at Apple and MS even know that. They're of similar mindsets and that's a really good thing for everyone, especially them, then back to us.

    >

    Couldn't agree more.

  • @RUncELL said:
    I think windows 10 and surface have proved you can have a proper operating system on a tablet. A proper operating system on an ipad could solve a lot of issues.

    Couldn't agree more :)

  • I will add my voice to the chorus that competition is good. Heck, it's essential.

    In my daily life, both work and personal, I enjoy all of the above operating systems, as well Linux. I make a living programming using Windows 7 (rock solid OS, love it) and I do most of my personal and social stuff on Apple hardware (I'm typing this on a Mac Mini). There are things I miss in each OS when I use them, as well as things I enjoy.

    iOS, in my opinion, is leading the pack in delivering what most people want. For the vast majority of people, the vast majority of the time, iOS has eliminated annoyances that we previously accepted as normal, such as installing device drivers, restarting after installing software, and closing applications to free memory.

    There are still many, many times when I help family members with their Mac OS X and Windows machines because something breaks (e.g., they can't print). Usually, the fix is something they could never have come up with on their own. I rarely have to do this with their iOS devices.

    We, on this forum, are unusual in what we demand of our iOS devices. Apple must walk a fine line between giving specialists like us the features we need, while keeping the device simple, performant, and reliable.

  • I have disliked Mac for years, because their closed circle business model is stifling. It killed them in the beginning, but the move to unix, and the quality of the hardware, helped them break out. I do love my iPad, and iOS is easy. At the same time, I keep banging my head trying to move files and parts around, something that should be easy.

    Windows is a way cheaper platform to run than Mac. Software on it is just as good. The thought behind a single OS across multiple platforms is brilliant - it's way easier for the company, and devs.

    For longevity also. How long will Apple support iOS? They have already made one big change - they have brought out Swift as a replacement for Objective-C. Which means that every single app we are now using, if that draws to its logical conclusion, will have to be almost entirely rewritten at some point. Which leaves a window of opportunity for others to get in. I think iOS is safe for now, five years, don't know.

    I keep looking at Surface tablets, but they are stupidly expensive. OTOH, they are basically a small laptop.

    For now, I'm super happy with where I am. We'll see where the future goes.

  • xenxen
    edited August 2015

    @RUncELL said:
    I think windows 10 and surface have proved you can have a proper operating system on a tablet. A proper operating system on an ipad could solve a lot of issues.

    I went for a new Music PC from a specialist supplier in December and tweaked one of their base systems to suit my needs.

    I've ended up with 32Gb of RAM as that was the most the motherboard would take - an ASUS Z97-A with an i7 4790 (Quad, 3.6 GHz). I wanted to balance performance against stability (and bottom-line budget constraints). My last track, while not breaking down, was nudging against the buffers. But, by the end I was running just under 70 VST plug-ins and 24 tracks of bounced audio (bounced as that was the workflow rather than that being a system imposed limit). Before I got to that stage it was happily tracking 18 simultaneous inputs from my hardware, running half a dozen VST instruments and 3 tracks of vocal samples. This was with Cubase 8 Pro - and I think some of the glitches I started encountering were more to do with the software than the hardware.

    I thought I was future-proofing when I placed the order - computer performance is like income - doesn't seem to matter what we think is enough, we'll always end up at the limit sooner rather than later.

  • @xen said:

    Guy that taught me mixing called it the n+1 problem - we have n channel strips on the desk but you know we are going to want 1 more

  • Thanks @xen. This sounds very promising. 70 plug-ins and 24 audio tracks is probably about the same for me on average. I am also a Cubase (Reason and ni komplete) user. I'm looking at the Rampage V x99 board and may get 5930k due to costs. Lots of variables that I'm still looking into but really I can't wait :) Thanks

  • @rickwaugh said:
    For longevity also. How long will Apple support iOS? They have already made one big change - they have brought out Swift as a replacement for Objective-C. Which means that every single app we are now using, if that draws to its logical conclusion, will have to be almost entirely rewritten at some point.

    Apple have always been much more aggressive in forcing developers to change APIs etc... with big moves forward that break backwards compatibility: the move to Intel was the biggest one, but there have been many others, including the transition to 64bit on the desktop, and iOS updates on mobile.

    This makes for some very disruptive transitions, and ultimately means that eventually devs have to update or their apps are abandoned.

    Windows on the other hand has always been very forgiving when it comes to backwards compatibility, and MS go out of their way to support older frameworks.

  • It'll be interesting to see what Apple does this time. I'm not much of an iOS dev, but the differences between swift and objective-c are not trivial. Can't imagine the work that would go into rewriting some of the music apps.

  • xenxen
    edited August 2015

    @RUncELL said:
    Thanks xen. This sounds very promising. 70 plug-ins and 24 audio tracks is probably about the same for me on average. I am also a Cubase (Reason and ni komplete) user. I'm looking at the Rampage V x99 board and may get 5930k due to costs. Lots of variables that I'm still looking into but really I can't wait :) Thanks

    No worries. There is a lot to consider and you want to get it right. I spent ages looking at what I needed. I was upgrading from a PC I bought in 2006 running Cubase LE4 so the performance change to where I am now has been incredible. It's taken me 6 months just to get my head around the step change. Good luck with your own upgrade.

  • Thanks for posting the vid @DaveMagoo, btw don't know if you've tried them but iOS's very own Amazing Noises has some nice Ableton gems at http://www.amazingnoises.com/product-category/free/ amongst others.

  • isn't that the same video?

  • @firejan82 said:
    isn't that the same video?

    Yep

  • Oops....too many Brandys I think....

  • edited August 2015

    I thought maybe this one had an alternate ending

  • Any Reaper user's, no 5, is live tomorrow, so I've just read.

  • Used Reaper exclusively for years. Love it. Major version rev should be interesting. Hopefully in a good way.

  • @KDub said:
    Used Reaper exclusively for years. Love it. Major version rev should be interesting. Hopefully in a good way.

    Out of all the DAW's I've got Reaper hasn't yet refused to use every plugin I've got, plus it's so flexible, if you've got Lemur on the iPad, Binder is a nice controller to use with it.

  • Agreed. When I had the Zoom R24 it worked simply great with it.

  • @firejan82 said:
    I thought maybe this one had an alternate ending

    like what? a blue screen?

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