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Not knowing anything about math modules, I use Drambo’s Math modules arbitrarily at times. But know that I found this treasure trove of resources from this thread, I’m guessing Math means the same for Drambo too in this context?
@dendy: I do (very occasionally) shove some stuff onto YouTube, which (even more occasionally) sometimes includes my ‘bleep & boop’ output. Here’s an example from the channel using my lunchbox case setup (you can see it in the above pic, too, lid closed) from a few months ago. It’s doing a self-generating patch I made:
I group all my ‘finished piece’ bleep n bloop pieces under the ‘Cthonicist: Dark, Ambient’ playlist on the channel:
(Which I also sometimes use just to chuck up quick screen grab app try out vids to post here).
I have to be in the right mood to make a ‘proper’ video, and the patience to edit etc, so output there is… erratic.
Another option if you can’t afford the Maths module and don’t want the behringer is the cyclic skew module from pulp logic. It’s a lot more limited but can get you in that direction and can be used as a lfo, ad, and ads envelope and gives you a trigger out and eor trigger as well. A couple of those and some logic modules can go a long way though. The only thing I’m really missing with it that kind of hurts is not being able to modulate the decay
subbed, prettx interesting music … just listenig “pure light of the void”, a really good one !
videos are actually pretty good, i like them, all i do is usually just grab screen of app or take video of gesr i play, so your visualisations are step forward :-)
Now that is something else… days of fun without coming up for water / coffee / beer… 🤣 No way my wife would be happy , that’s for sure. At least with the iPad, it’s all hidden and out of the way lol (release your inner Colin Benders)
Uh? What MI clone is that? They are releasing a XAOC Batumi clone but I don’t remember another MI clone then Brains (Plaits)
I felt deja vu with the arrangement of the knobs of Maths.
https://jobsinfootball.com/blog/tactics/3-4-3-formation/
I pasted in my mind a 3-4-3 football formation and looked for a miRack module with knobs arrangement similar to that.
(In this case, I’m referring to the image of "Johan Cruyff, Barcelona" formation in the second half of the article, not "Antonio Conte, Chelsea".)
As a result, I found the module called Rampage.
What I say next is a lie, but the following link is a byproduct of my research for football articles.
Rampage versus Maths
https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179262
I have no knowledge of modular synths, so I didn’t understand the content of the linked thread. However, I somehow understood Maths and Rampage are not the same thing. (But I don’t know if the expression ‘different beast’ can be used in this case.)
By the way, what I state next is a complete lie, but extensive marketing research proved that when faced with the decision of which module to purchase, Johan Cruyff’s fans will choose Maths, with its familiar and beautiful formation.
If Behringer are > @H34rtc0r3 said:
Marbles I believe, Behringer version is named Chaos.
i believe behringer is in vast majority cases cloning products which are not actively produced by original manufacturers anymore … Which includes MI - correct me if i am wrong but they are not producing they modules anymore …
So i really dowsn’t understand the hate.
From interviews i saw with Behringer i believe that guy is true synth enthusiast and his main motivation is just to fulfill his own dreams because he simply can afford it..
Of course he is also goon businessman/entrepreneur so yeah, his company is not charity and it is expected it will generate profits - nothing wrong about that.
It’s same lile with Musk - he is doing business for huge amount og money and as person he has some pretty dumb opinions - which doesn’t mean that some of his activities doesn’t hsve huge positive impact for large amount of people.
Those two things - make money and do positive things for people - aren’t contradicting each other.
I’d say there’s room for artisan and mass-produced goods, it’s existed for a long time, in all forms of commerce and systems, including in relation to music, before Behringer as a business existed.
Drambo users are spoilt by having access to a large amount of included math modules, without any IAP required, that can do even more than the subject of this discussion.
But yes, we can never have enough good resources of ideas how to use them, no matter if in hardware or in software 😊
Im sorry but this is such a perfect example of a “Tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about, without telling me you don’t know what you’re talking about” statement.
Euro is expensive as fuck by all means but it’s definitely not because of extortionate mark ups (2nd hand market excluded). As much as some people want to think it’s just the latest hipster craze to take over the music gear industry, Euro is still a super small niche market in terms of production numbers. Over the last few years many makers had to close up shop due to supply chain issues, I can’t imagine if there were so high profits they would have been forced to make that decision.
If module makers were marking things up by 75%, shouldn’t Émilie Gillet/Tony Rolando etc be millionaires? I would actually love if they were tbh.
On the Behringer side of things, I just hope they eventually get sued out the wazzoo but I fear they have already budgeted for the litigation costs and it would do fuck all in the long run. I’ve absolutely no problem with people buying behringer products, especially when funds are tight. But I would highly recommend people consider what they are supporting and the long term damage companies like this do to a small industry where innovation is often championed by individuals doing it purely out of genuine passion. Think of how hard this is to watch as a small manufacturer? Any unique product you think will be well received, it’s not a question of if, but when will behringer come out of nowhere to remorselessly undercut you? I can’t imagine that’s very encouraging…
MI aren’t making any new ones, true. And there are clones already of the ones that have become open source (I believe the code is opened up after a couple of years.
However, Maths is very much a current product, as are the Moog semi-modulars which Behringer have cloned (or announced, in the case of their Subharmonicon clone).
They’re wily enough to make their stuff just different enough to make legal action difficult, which signals cynicism to me. A shame, because when they actually make a synth of their own they can do good stuff, eg the Neutron.
☝️This.
This is an excellent take.
hm, don’t think so:
it’s debatable if Crave, Edge (and Fire) are really clones, or better if they steal market share from Moog.. they have some significant disadvantages when compared to moog “originals” (for example incompatible with eurorack format, and many people are buying Moog originals exactly for that purpose) and i think most of people who buy crave/edge would never buy moog alternative anyway ..
Funny fact - current Moog comoany has basically nothing to do with original Bob Moog and they just use his name because they simply can. Good marketing move. .. So they are a kinda “behringer like” just in much smaller scale.
Except of few cases (crave/edge - which is debatable, then that keyboard where they cloned Artutia keystep - that was very nasty, totally agree in this point) - vast majority of their products aren’t direct ripoff of any existing product which is still activelly produced. Including whole Roland system xxx series, which is really great that they made it - cause Roland is totally incspable of build on upon their past successfull products something great, and rather just recycle same VA engine just in new and new HW cases.
Yes, this is true and can’t wait for Proton which looks like it moves all things on completely new level - and looks it finally goes into production.
Funny you mention Roland, when I look at my Roland SE-02, it kind of reminds me of another synth…
Yes lol :-) But in this case they just collaborated with other company which initially “cloned” that another synth :-))
I know a lot of independent sellers need to sell higher but there is absolutely a massive markup when you see a passive multiple or attenuator for $50 or more. I’m not saying they all do that but I have seen modules costing way more than they need to.
While it’s not a great look for Behringer to do this, I’m assuming they’re able to because Maths is so largely based off Serge and Buchla ideas and designs even if Abacus is an obvious clone of Maths. I get where people are coming from in complaints to behringer and I guess people can guilt trip me all they want for buying it but unless your convictions are so strong that you want to buy me Maths, which I could never afford and no one would ever buy me it cos I know your convictions aren’t that strong, I’d have to go with behringer. And I’m not going to limit myself just because I don’t make as much money as others.
Dendy, MI has nothing to do with Maths which is a MakeNoise product.
Oooo .. no idea why i thought it’s Mutable Instruments product..
ok then this is just plain BAD thing from Behringer .. very bad .. game changer, definitely will buy rather original !!
On the other hand, very creative people could team up with overseas manufacturers to produce their boutique modules at lower cost, same as Behringer and take advantage of their own market successes. Behringer is adept at identifying opportunities and jumping on them. Nothing prevents the smaller manufacturers from doing the same. Business is business. As a matter of fact, if the smaller outlets were to join a Eurorack Module Manufacturing Guild and take advantage of their combined resources, they’d be able to beat Behringer every time.
Behringer is cloning a bunch of in production products by lots of companies. Four LFO is a clone of Batumi by Xaoc Devices. As mentioned already, Maths is by Make Noise.
As for Moog, their products are all Euro compatible. In fact, you can put Subharmonicon etc into Eurorack cases, while you can't do that with the Behringer clones. (Neutron and Proton can be put in Euro cases, but not the Moog clones).
I do agree that in terms of market, Behringer products serve a different part of the market than say Moog. But Moog unlike Euro makers is a lot bigger, so clones of Euro maker products is a lot more questionable.
You can argue they are doing the same thing as guitar manufacturers have done for decades but the synth industry is lot smaller by far, so the economic impacts for smaller makers could be larger.
The other issue with Behringer Euro clones is they are a lot larger than more of the originals, which are not as convenient in small cases. So you can get them cheaply but good luck including them in your usual 104-208hp cases. In Euro, the size of modules matters. Many of the Behringer clones esp the digital ones all look like they are using same boards, so they are on average 16hp-20hp whereas the originals like Batumi etc are close to 10hp.
Behringer is a huge company @Neum that owns its own production facilities in Asia.
Boutique developers doing their manufacturing in Asia is not going to put them on an equal footing. And, to the extent that it lowers prices it also sends jobs out local markets.
I think somehow you mixed me up, I know the size and scale of Behringer’s production capabilities.
In Euro makers do in fact work with each other. It's very community oriented because they are not cloning each other's products. But that doesn't mean they are take on a global company. That's like saying if all small businesses worked together, they can take on Amazon. It's not the same thing at all.
On a positive note, I will say that it's good to see that Behringer is cloning out of production analog synths many old school manufacturers like Roland and Yamaha are only doing digital.
Apologies. Will fix
In case you’re under the impression that’s going to go away any time soon, it isn’t. That manufacturing advantage will continue until general purpose robots are able to replace factory workers at a lower cost and supply chains are shifted away from China.
Aha! Thx for the info. They are also doing Ripples!
Named Surges.
https://www.gearnews.com/behringer-reveals-more-modular-clones-on-the-way/
Cheers, I didn’t realise that.