Sugar Bytes Dialekt Out on Desktop, Shortly to Be Released on iPad and iPhone!

Gavinski · April 17

@echoopera said:
Played with the Demo.

It's cool and fun...but being limited to the predefined Instruments per Tracks is very unfortunate. I really want to use 8 Slice Tracks, or 4 Slice Tracks, 3 Chord Tracks, and 1 Percussion Track and organize my Tracks how I want to...but you are locked in to the Track and what type of instrumentation/sound it supports.

I don't like be locked into a Box when I am creating, so I won't be buying the app until this limitation is removed. Like I said before 8 Tracks is fine. But let me choose what those 8 Tracks are going to be for my Groove.

Please Free your Tracks @sugarbytes please

I managed to find the response from the dev when I asked him why they didn't allow the user more freedom to assign tracks:

"I would love to have all synthesizers available in all channels. unfortunately, with the framework I am working with, that would be impossible. I cannot use things like classes, where you have the code one time and can instantiate it multiple times."

So yeah, it's a technical limitation with whatever way this has been designed, best not to hold your breath for an update enabling it

reezygle · April 17

@Gavinski said:

@echoopera said:
Played with the Demo.

It's cool and fun...but being limited to the predefined Instruments per Tracks is very unfortunate. I really want to use 8 Slice Tracks, or 4 Slice Tracks, 3 Chord Tracks, and 1 Percussion Track and organize my Tracks how I want to...but you are locked in to the Track and what type of instrumentation/sound it supports.

I don't like be locked into a Box when I am creating, so I won't be buying the app until this limitation is removed. Like I said before 8 Tracks is fine. But let me choose what those 8 Tracks are going to be for my Groove.

Please Free your Tracks @sugarbytes please

I managed to find the response from the dev when I asked him why they didn't allow the user more freedom to assign tracks:

"I would love to have all synthesizers available in all channels. unfortunately, with the framework I am working with, that would be impossible. I cannot use things like classes, where you have the code one time and can instantiate it multiple times."

So yeah, it's a technical limitation with whatever way this has been designed, best not to hold your breath for an update enabling it

I really like the other SugarBytes apps. DrumComputer is a favorite. But I'm very confused about these design choices. Obviously it is not a technical limitation of the platform. Sounds like bad software architecture. If the app software architecture is that limiting then there is not much hope for this app other than it being rewritten from scratch. That's unfortunate.

Jumpercollins · April 17

Other reviews coming in.

Gavinski · April 17

@reezygle said:

@Gavinski said:

@echoopera said:
Played with the Demo.

It's cool and fun...but being limited to the predefined Instruments per Tracks is very unfortunate. I really want to use 8 Slice Tracks, or 4 Slice Tracks, 3 Chord Tracks, and 1 Percussion Track and organize my Tracks how I want to...but you are locked in to the Track and what type of instrumentation/sound it supports.

I don't like be locked into a Box when I am creating, so I won't be buying the app until this limitation is removed. Like I said before 8 Tracks is fine. But let me choose what those 8 Tracks are going to be for my Groove.

Please Free your Tracks @sugarbytes please

I managed to find the response from the dev when I asked him why they didn't allow the user more freedom to assign tracks:

"I would love to have all synthesizers available in all channels. unfortunately, with the framework I am working with, that would be impossible. I cannot use things like classes, where you have the code one time and can instantiate it multiple times."

So yeah, it's a technical limitation with whatever way this has been designed, best not to hold your breath for an update enabling it

I really like the other SugarBytes apps. DrumComputer is a favorite. But I'm very confused about these design choices. Obviously it is not a technical limitation of the platform. Sounds like bad software architecture. If the app software architecture is that limiting then there is not much hope for this app other than it being rewritten from scratch. That's unfortunate.

It's a pity, for sure. Only workaround for that I can think of, currently, is to use multiple instances

jwmmakerofmusic · April 17

Think I may be a little slow on the uptake here (I usually am, lol), but can Dialekt be used as AUv3 in, say, AUM, Cubasis 3, Logic Pro, etc?

wim · April 17

What developer in their right mind uses a framework that doesn't support classes and objects?? And how could anyone pull off an app of this complexity without it?

This is very perplexing.

Perhaps its coded in pure C? But why? Masochism?

echoopera · April 17

@Gavinski said:

@echoopera said:
Played with the Demo.

It's cool and fun...but being limited to the predefined Instruments per Tracks is very unfortunate. I really want to use 8 Slice Tracks, or 4 Slice Tracks, 3 Chord Tracks, and 1 Percussion Track and organize my Tracks how I want to...but you are locked in to the Track and what type of instrumentation/sound it supports.

I don't like be locked into a Box when I am creating, so I won't be buying the app until this limitation is removed. Like I said before 8 Tracks is fine. But let me choose what those 8 Tracks are going to be for my Groove.

Please Free your Tracks @sugarbytes please

I managed to find the response from the dev when I asked him why they didn't allow the user more freedom to assign tracks:

"I would love to have all synthesizers available in all channels. unfortunately, with the framework I am working with, that would be impossible. I cannot use things like classes, where you have the code one time and can instantiate it multiple times."

So yeah, it's a technical limitation with whatever way this has been designed, best not to hold your breath for an update enabling it

Hahahah...sounds like they picked the wrong Framework to build a Groovebox upon

Talk about painting yourself into a corner.

Now I have to decide if I want to expend the energy to let the Emperor know that he isn't wearing any clothes on IG, YT, and other areas more than I already have

@wim said:
What developer in their right mind uses a framework that doesn't support classes and objects?? And how could anyone pull off an app of this complexity without it?

This is very perplexing.

Perhaps its coded in pure C? But why? Masochism?

Hahaha...it's called MasoBoxIsm....but seriously it's just bad bad bad Product Management.

They will not be successful with this app...Grooveboxes should be blank slates of possibility when it comes to how people want to use them.

Give us flexibility within the limitations of the app. Don't give us limitations based on inflexible excuses and lack of foresight within the app

Guess SB won't be getting very much cash from users with this Dud of a release until this issue is fixed...if ever....

jwmmakerofmusic · April 17

@wim said:
What developer in their right mind uses a framework that doesn't support classes and objects?? And how could anyone pull off an app of this complexity without it?

This is very perplexing.

Perhaps its coded in pure C? But why? Masochism?

Yeah, no flippin idea. It's a pretty shortsighted move in my honest opinion. But if it can be used as AUv3 in a host on iPad (and even iPhone), then it'll fit in with my usual workflow in Cubasis. (Then again, I do love a good challenge of limitations. I mean, shit, I once had an OP-1 Field just for the challenge of creating an EP in it (I created 3 with it).)

Gavinski · April 17

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Think I may be a little slow on the uptake here (I usually am, lol), but can Dialekt be used as AUv3 in, say, AUM, Cubasis 3, Logic Pro, etc?

Yeah - as I mentioned at the start of my walkthrough, I was using it as an AUv3 hosted in AUM (in full screen mode, so not noticeable, most of the time)

jwmmakerofmusic · April 17

@Gavinski said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Think I may be a little slow on the uptake here (I usually am, lol), but can Dialekt be used as AUv3 in, say, AUM, Cubasis 3, Logic Pro, etc?

Yeah - as I mentioned at the start of my walkthrough, I was using it as an AUv3 hosted in AUM (in full screen mode, so not noticeable, most of the time)

Shit, I definitely missed that. 😂 Well that's _very_welcome news indeed. Meaning, I can use Dialekt as standalone for a real challenge, and within Cubasis 3 for more fully-fleshed out tracks.

echoopera · April 17

@Jumpercollins said:
Other reviews coming in.

I couldn't resist commenting on this Bad Bad Product Decision from SB

I went ahead and replied to the 2 other videos on Dialekt as well.

Someone needs to let the emperor know that he isn't wearing any clothes ya know

Robin2 · April 17

Looking at the user manual, it seems the ‘sampler memory has a fixed size of 10 seconds. Only the first 10 seconds of a loaded sample are written to memory.’

Seems like an odd restriction?

echoopera · April 17

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Gavinski said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Think I may be a little slow on the uptake here (I usually am, lol), but can Dialekt be used as AUv3 in, say, AUM, Cubasis 3, Logic Pro, etc?

Yeah - as I mentioned at the start of my walkthrough, I was using it as an AUv3 hosted in AUM (in full screen mode, so not noticeable, most of the time)

Shit, I definitely missed that. 😂 Well that's _very_welcome news indeed. Meaning, I can use Dialekt as standalone for a real challenge, and within Cubasis 3 for more fully-fleshed out tracks.

Be sure and test out the Demo. I think you will end up getting bored of it quickly since you can't change the Track types based on your mood and desire to finish a Track.

Who works this way in a GrooveBox? If I want 6 Drum Tracks...let me have 6 Drum Tracks and 2 Other types of Tracks...

This is kind of like building a Car with the steering wheel in the center of the Dashboard, 4 Doors, no back Seats, and the trunk with only enough space for a 12 pack of sodas.

I know this is a crazy exaggeration but come one now...we all know what a GROOVEBOX is supposed to be right? Right?

jwmmakerofmusic · April 17

@echoopera said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@Gavinski said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Think I may be a little slow on the uptake here (I usually am, lol), but can Dialekt be used as AUv3 in, say, AUM, Cubasis 3, Logic Pro, etc?

Yeah - as I mentioned at the start of my walkthrough, I was using it as an AUv3 hosted in AUM (in full screen mode, so not noticeable, most of the time)

Shit, I definitely missed that. 😂 Well that's _very_welcome news indeed. Meaning, I can use Dialekt as standalone for a real challenge, and within Cubasis 3 for more fully-fleshed out tracks.

Be sure and test out the Demo. I think you will end up getting bored of it quickly since you can't change the Track types based on your mood and desire to finish a Track.

Who works this way in a GrooveBox? If I want 6 Drum Tracks...let me have 6 Drum Tracks and 2 Other types of Tracks...

This is kind of like building a Car with the steering wheel in the center of the Dashboard, 4 Doors, no back Seats, and the trunk with only enough space for a 12 pack of sodas.

I know this is a crazy exaggeration but come one now...we all know what a GROOVEBOX is supposed to be right? Right?

If only one track can be drums...how about creating Ambient in Dialekt? 😂 Idk, I'm looking forward to the challenge so long as the intro price is right.

reasOne · April 17

Great video Gav, very well done.

I’ve switched almost entirely to creating on Mac with Ableton in the past few months, and I’ve picked up some amazing plug ins…. 99$ seems crazy for this to be honest.
I was thinking maybe I’ll grab it for iOS for when i am in the mood for iPad creating because it looks like a really fun touchscreen app, but i agree that not being able to pick your track instrument is kinda wild.

I would maybe drop 50$ for the plug in and 20$ for the app.

I’ll test the iOS demo and see if it changes my mind because despite the track limit it seems pretty promising to create something useful.

ATM, drambo is still the iOS choice Groovebox tho

robosardine · April 17

@Gavinski said:

@jwmmakerofmusic said:
Before I dive into your walkthrough @Gavinski , how would you say Dialekt compares to the likes of GR-16, GR-II, Bam, Drambo, etc? Also gratz on being given the opportunity to do the full walkthrough, mate!

I haven’t used any of those tbh, so can’t compare haha!

Bit of a coincidence there. I don’t use any of them either.. but I’ll definitely be getting this. Great video @Gavinski

robosardine · April 17

What are we guessing here for the price? I’ll go for £24.99

echoopera · April 17

@jwmmakerofmusic said:

@wim said:
What developer in their right mind uses a framework that doesn't support classes and objects?? And how could anyone pull off an app of this complexity without it?

This is very perplexing.

Perhaps its coded in pure C? But why? Masochism?

Yeah, no flippin idea. It's a pretty shortsighted move in my honest opinion. But if it can be used as AUv3 in a host on iPad (and even iPhone), then it'll fit in with my usual workflow in Cubasis. (Then again, I do love a good challenge of limitations. I mean, shit, I once had an OP-1 Field just for the challenge of creating an EP in it (I created 3 with it).)

Yeah, but even the OP-1Field let you decide what to place on those 4 Tracks If you want them all to be Drums...you could do that...or grindy FM synths...it allowed that.

4 Tracks are the Limit on the OP-1 Field
Track Types are not the limit.

Even the old app GrooveBox from Novation let you pick what kind of Instrument you have on the Track....and it's also limited to 8 Tracks.

Tracks should be flexible to suit your musical mood....you shouldn't be forced to only use what someone else deems the right choice, otherwise all the music from the app will sound the same.

What a Sugar Rush Buzz Kill

jwmmakerofmusic · April 17

@echoopera said:
What a Sugar Rush Buzz Kill

LOL! 😂 Okay, that was hilarious mate.

Ailerom · April 17

Seems a bit of a missed opportunity to get in on the audio looping.

echoopera · April 17

Stirring things up on the socials now:

reasOne · April 17

@echoopera said:
Stirring things up on the socials now:

So you do like the app? lol

echoopera · April 17

Yeah it's cool...but I don't like it enough to buy cause of the limitations on Track types.

You’re better off with Drambo or GR-2 if you want something new at this stage.

Pxlhg · April 18

@Gavinski said:

@Slush said:
Wow, Battalion will get some serious competition.

I think they’re pretty different tbh, no?

I'm just having a go at both in Reason. They're demos as I can't afford either one. Battalion are more in the DrumComputer area but I don't think you're that far off @Slush

I was just playing around when all of a sudden they married each other and I just smiled hearing some fantastic sounds. Then I remembered it was just a dream (demo).

It will be hard to choose, we are waiting for both coming to iOS (although B has a TestFlight beta) if you have to.

rs2000 · April 18

@reasOne said:

@echoopera said:
Stirring things up on the socials now:

So you do like the app? lol

I can see the idea behind Dialekt. A pre-defined tracks structure can get you going quickly and like Ableton Note, it's probably not intended to be more than a sketchpad.
This could be done in Drambo as well but at least in Dialekt you have a dedicated "classic front panel" for the track-specific controls.

I'm curious how it will look like on an iPhone. Good design on iPhone can make a big difference in its success.

reasOne · April 18

@rs2000 said:

@reasOne said:

@echoopera said:
Stirring things up on the socials now:

So you do like the app? lol

I can see the idea behind Dialekt. A pre-defined tracks structure can get you going quickly and like Ableton Note, it's probably not intended to be more than a sketchpad.
This could be done in Drambo as well but at least in Dialekt you have a dedicated "classic front panel" for the track-specific controls.

I'm curious how it will look like on an iPhone. Good design on iPhone can make a big difference in its success.

I agree. I’m not 100% against the structure here.. its designed to get you moving. I think it would be better for each time you open the app it preselects the instrument tracks for you but still have the ability to change them out. That would have been the best of both worlds.
I still have not ruled it out, definitely looking forward to demoing it!

echoopera · April 18

@rs2000 said:

@reasOne said:

@echoopera said:
Stirring things up on the socials now:

So you do like the app? lol

I can see the idea behind Dialekt. A pre-defined tracks structure can get you going quickly and like Ableton Note, it's probably not intended to be more than a sketchpad.
This could be done in Drambo as well but at least in Dialekt you have a dedicated "classic front panel" for the track-specific controls.

I'm curious how it will look like on an iPhone. Good design on iPhone can make a big difference in its success.

Yep. I agree with all your points. But the lack of being able to switch things up like you want to is just strange to me.

What other apps like this force you into such a rigid workflow model?

Note, Groovebox, GR-2, all loverly Grooveboxy apps with user minded flexibility.

I know I’m spoiled with the kind of apps I’ve listed above…so i honestly was surprised by this implementation which i view as an oversight on SBs part.

It was their intentional decision it seems…which i just don’t understand and probably never will.

chaocrator · April 18

the very 1st groovebox i won't instantly buy.

PS. while some people are unhappy with just one slice track – i don't need it at all, and 8 tracks is not a lot.
in theory i could waste some time to make a long sliceable sausage of 16 percussive sounds and use them this way – but why?!

alexwasashrimp · April 18

@echoopera said:

we all know what a GROOVEBOX is supposed to be right? Right?

To be fair, when it comes to hardware grooveboxes, that's exactly how so many of them work. But in a software groovebox it's a weird limitation for sure, although not a deal breaker for me for sure, limitations often breed creativity.

(the deal breaker is that I have Drambo already, so I probably won't ever need another groovebox app)

dendy · April 18

I found it nice that there is this limitation-challenge that track types are fixed. I like it a lot. Less options, more creativity :-D This limitation is actually main reason why i am going to give it a chance :-D

Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

Sugar Bytes Dialekt Out on Desktop, Shortly to Be Released on iPad and iPhone!

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