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Used AI to extract ambient music from jwmmakerofmusic’s painting
Jim, If you recall, you posted a painting a while back in an earlier discussion. I jokingly commented that it looked like it had some midi notes hidden in it. I really liked that painting and decided to try AI to make music with those subliminal notes that I could see. I tried ChatGPT to do it all by itself but it wasn’t able to. However, after some back and forth, it was able to generate the Python code to do it. And it introduced Pythonista to me and how to run the Python on my iPad (I was a software engineer in a past life). I had a long conversation with ChatGPT to get to the final result. Once I got the midi with the Python code, I brought it into LK in AUM and fed it to 3 synths. I slowed it down to 20 BPM to get this simple ambient piece.
This is your original painting:
Here’s the music in your painting @jwmmakerofmusic:
This is your art Jim. It is not AI’s art and it is definitely not mine. AI was just used to help look at your art in a different way. Some will likely disagree but I think this is actually a creative endeavor. A new tool for artists. Not just the stupid copy/paste mimicry that we see out there with AI.
You can hang a man with a rope, but you can also save him from drowning with a rope. AI can be used to inspire. It can also be used to destroy the world.
But I have to say, AI will never be able to create anything like Nat King Cole’s Mona Lisa, or Don McClean’s Starry Night 
And here’s the entire conversation, vibe, whatever you wanna call it, with ChatGPT in case anyone’s interested. I really learned quite a bit. I do enjoy the teaching aspect of AI.
https://chatgpt.com/share/6889354c-1af4-800e-bf37-569091ce4cae
I hope this starts a good conversation here.
Cheers to you Jim!
Comments
Wow, I don't quite know what to say, lol. First, the positives. I really love the results. The Ambient is soothing and lovely.
Although, the critique is...I am rather against AI for most things (unless it's like an AI tool used for mixing and mastering music as opposed to generating music). 😅 I've been that way since I did some research into AI earlier this year after @offbrands and I had a small disagreement in January and, as well, also being screwed out of a few commissions (mostly art commissions, and one music instrumental commission) due to the users deciding to go the AI route instead. So, uh, I'm still just a bit bitter about AI.
I mean, again, the results are lovely. ❤️ You are an amazing music. Just, uh, if I may make a request for the future. Can you please not feed my art into AI for any purpose? Please and thank you. 🙏
Thank you Jim. You have inspired me with your art these past few years that I’ve been here. Be it your music or your visual arts.
I will never again feed your art into AI. I know you know that I had no bad intentions. Just an experiment.
To me AI is just a tool and it’s on us humans if it’s abused and goes haywire. Just my opinion.
Cheers mate!
@offbrands You are always very elegant in bringing your points across. Part of my intention besides showing the possibilities for artists was to start a conversation here because I know there are many here like you with different points of view that care enough to engage in a productive and civil way. We all learn from each other.
With AI it’s becoming harder to draw the line. One could argue that using AI for restoration takes away jobs from professionals that restore art or other things for a living. The same can even be said for stem separation. Why shouldn’t we pay the original artists or a session musician to play and record the individual stems?
As you pointed out I had choice in the final result. That was my artistic input. Like a producer that works with different musicians or a conductor that guides a symphony orchestra. Someone like Hans Zimmer has musicians that would happily work with him/for him for free. He guides the creation of the final product. This way of work has now been democratized by AI in my humble opinion.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. ❤️
I'm jealous.
Thanks mate.
I appreciate your understanding, and yes, I know you had no bad intentions. That's why I said "I don't quite know what to say". I didn't want to come off as a dick, because we're friends, and there was no ill will there. ❤️
You know how humankind can be, though. Humankind has always misused and abused various tools, especially to fight with each other in wars and such. I have a feeling something similar to Skynet will come about either late this decade or in the 2030s that will destroy us.
Cheers to you too, my friend. 🍻
@offbrands That's a very well-put, thoroughly thought out reply. Exactly. Our friend @reezygle didn't mean any disrespect, and I didn't take him to be disrespectful. I'm just sour about AI taking away some works.
(Also, I go by "he/him". Lol.)
Ahaha. 😂 Yeah, I try to put in the hustle, but it seems more people want to take the "easy way" (like I ashamedly used to) by generating cover art rather than hiring a professional to do so. And, my art prices are dirt cheap. Cheaper than buying tokens from some shite AI model like Midjourney to generate half-arsed "art" from a robot.
Haha, that's all good, my friend.
I wasn't offended. I was simply clarifying. ❤️ Cheers.
Melodist is an app that turns any image into a midi file, with export.
I see that @Poppadocrock beat me to the Melodist comparison. I picked it up a few years ago as a curiosity. I thought that, for the price, it didn’t use actual AI, and I don’t think it does. I tried it with several different images. It created something different for each. The results were much better than I expected. Out of curiosity, I tried the first image a second time and it created the same music. It’s definitely doing something with the input, and not just random generation.
Regarding AI, I have never used it… that I was aware of. I think it has applications. @MadeofWax has taken it to a higher level that I have yet to see on this forum, or any of the others that I frequent. The danger of AI will become apparent when people start relying on it for basic human functions. It’s already too late to turn back, so I will just sit back and enjoy the show with an ice cold Martini.
Made by human hands, or shaken not stirred by a robotic arm? 🤣
My capable hands. Shaken of course. Don’t bruise the gin. It’s a bit early, so I’ll wait until at least noon. It’s quite a nice day here. A bit cloudy but comfy. The lawn dudes are mowing and it smells great.
Just to add to the conversation about image -> MIDI converters, there is a nice app called Pixel Music which also works as Auv3. Has a lot of options and includes a neat sequencer a lot of options. But beware: doesn't work in Logic Pro and Garage Band.
Yah the idea of giving an AI company (or more specifically an ML data scraping company) either my money or data is abhorrent to me. I do tend to see the open source tools as a tiny bit more forgivable (free access/no strings attached is a bit punk rock to me) but in the end it is still of course tainted.
I actually don't see the basic 'prompt and ghost' stuff as robot generated these days. To me these things are simply metaphoric collages made of human art. A lot of it looks amazing and stunning to me and that is because humans have made the amazing and stunning stuff it is made of.
Nice discussion. Just posting to remember. Carry on, at ease.
I will watch the show but not sure I will enjoy it. And I prefer scotch. Other than that not much else to do about it.
sadly I am in the middle of the shit show covered in it until I retire
As you were
It’s like an Ed Wood “film”. So bad it’s good. I once loved the taste of Scotch. It didn’t like me. I don’t really like booze, but I rather like the buzz. I gave up on weed after it became legal here. It’s just too much for me. It’s not like back in “the day”. Hope you are doing well.
You inspired me to try Anthropic “Claude” which I’m paying $17/month for to do me some MIDI coding too.
I made a screen shot of your Piano Roll i the video and uploaded it into Claude to make a Mozaic Script.
It produced this script of the @jwmmakerofmusic midi you created in Python.
Nice @McD!
Anthropic and Amazon Web Services did a demo of Claud Code at my work a couple of weeks ago. It was mind blowing.
What was really impressive was everything outside of code generation. Creating Jira tickets, updating them, closing them, automated pull requests, documentation on Confluence, creating tests, running tests, fixing the code, etc.. Most of the stuff that developers usually hate to do.
Up until now, most projects have had a README.md file that explains everything about what’s in the repo. Now there is Claud.md. It’s like writing a good prompt. You write up Claude.md and Claud Code pretty much does the rest. It’s agentic so each part is done by a specific agent with a specific set of skills served by MCP servers. And the agents work together to complete the project.
This is definitely changing the way we develop software and manage projects. Some jobs will be lost and yes it is painful for many. But many more will be created. So goes capitalism (for those of us in the US). Should we be burning more coal to preserve coal miner’s jobs? It’s harsh I know but it is reality.
I wonder what @Michael thinks about all of this.
Yah, it is going to redefine so many things and shift society in profound ways that we can't foresee.
Ok who hit pause? Grab your drinks folks. Back to the movie.
@jwmmakerofmusic I agree with how you characterize humankind. But that is us. We have an “us” problem.
Skynet’s been around since social networks took off.
They’ve been slowly boiling us frogs for a long time. Who puts those influencers in our feeds? Algorithms. Algorithms which have been running our lives since way before any of this new wave of AI took off. And IMHO we only have an illusion of control and privacy. Unless we are completely unplugged and have been since we were born. Including everyone that we have ever interacted with in our lives.
We humans can agree to support each other. Like how I promised never to feed your art to AI because of the mutual respect we have for each other and value our relationship on this forum. But everything that we post here is public and the crawlers are devouring them, whether we like it or not. Unfortunately it is completely out of our control.
My job in IT infrastructure and operations is literally to serve the machines. To keep them alive and healthy so that they can make and move around money. Money that is used to make and buy more machines. Machines of different kinds.
Some human is taking care of the servers that host this forum.
Who’s serving whom?
(He said as he took a shot of warm vodka)
Cheers!
P.S. “Welcome my son. Welcome to the machine.”
I think making music from an image is an interesting way to use AI.
I understand if an artist objects to feeding their images or music into an AI program, whether it’s for training purposes or actual creation . I also see the argument that it’s not that different from a person being influenced by artists they admire. I took art classes in high school. People drew from references. I can’t tell you how many of my classmates blatantly ripped off Giger or Frazetta or Boris Vallejo.
How many people make music using samples? Using pieces of another person’s music to build a riff? I understand I’m in the minority here on the forum, but I really don’t see that much difference between that and using bits from sampled artists, feeding it into a machine learning program and turning it into something new.
Still, I respect @jwmmakerofmusic and any other artist that specifically does not want their art used in that way.
I don’t post my videos here anymore because I know it is a controversial topic and I don’t want to cause drama. But I still like to hang around and listen to the music people create and follow the interesting topics that occasionally pop up. The vibe of the forum has changed and I wouldn’t say it’s for the better, but it’s still the best forum I’ve been a member of for years.
Y’all have fun. I’m going to bed.
@MadeofWax I definitely understand your side of the argument, and just because you use AI doesn't mean I don't respect you any less.
It's just something that, like Pontius Pilate, I've washed my hands of.
To me, there's a difference between someone being heavily influenced by an artist they admire (Sash! is my main inspo for EDM for instance) versus losing commissions due to the client deciding to use AI instead. If someone wanted to sample any music I made, I'd say "pay me such-and-such flat fee, and have at it". I wouldn't worry any about copyright and royalties. Flat fee, and that's literally it. Plus, I'm not against sampling.
But when AI directly affects my handiwork as a music producer and digital artist, and I lose money, then there's the issue. I don't have money to pay someone to design an album cover for me, which is why I used to generate album covers. But, in the end, it's not worth it to me to screw others out of their livelihoods, even if indirectly by setting a poor example. 🫣
But see, these are only my opinions (which should be taken with a pinch of salt), and I don't mind that some people and I will disagree politely. (It's called "healthy logical debate", which is sadly lacking in many aspects of modern society given a lot of people seem to rely on their Id moreso than their Superego.)
About the vibe of the forum, it has changed indeed. But as you also said, it's still the best forum. I haven't encountered nearly as much troublesome people as I have in other music forums I used to frequent and eventually stopped visiting.
I'm glad to hear from you @MadeofWax .
How've you been these days? I hope you're well.
Interesting discussion. The music, let’s face it, was nothing special. Perhaps you could have had the painting become a rumba sung by operatic voices. Now that’s for me!
Now for some serious response.
1. When I made my first CDs I had to hire an artist, designer, set type, make photostats(!) it took days and cash. Now it takes me 15 minutes to make a cover and i’m very happy with them. Is there a problem? I know @jwmmakerofmusic does his own, too. (How’s it going, Jim?)
there used to be something called “amateur” status. An amateur was not a hobbyist in the 19th century. They were just as serious, they just didn’t make money from it. It was a purer place, no? (Again, I understand the necessity people feel about it).
I consider myself an amateur, of course. Even though I’ve played nearly 70 years now. If I had attempted to make money at it (aside from gigs in my teens and twenties) i’d probably be dead by now. I certainly would not have created the particular music I wound up making. My guess is I would not have been as satisfied as I am now if money was part of the equation.
I represented illustrators. These were artists who put their art aside and their ultimate decision making power. Instead the client made the ultimate decisions. The illustrators were top notch. They produced beautiful work and, unlike a lot of artists, they could put their personal judgements aside to please the client. Due to stock and the internet that business, as I knew it is gone. AI wasn’t necessary to destroy it. Just progress.
Thx @reezygle for the experiment and engendered conversation.
I tried running that painting through Virtual ANS. I didn’t get anything going that I cared for. Sorry about that Jim. 😉
@LinearLineman "How’s it going, Jim?" It's going well, Mike. 😊 How are you? Speaking of Mikes...
Lol. Goofball. 🤣 Kidding. Hope you're well, too.
@McD gotta say I’m impressed at that claude’s output. Now the question is: how does it sound?