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Spinoff thread from “Fight/Flight (An Anti-Ice Rap Track)”
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Let it be noted that NO people who have migrated to the US legally are being arrested or deported. None whatsoever. And let it also be noted that there is no "right" to come the US. People who come to the US are guests. No country (at least no country that wishes to remain a country) allows illegal immigration.
Since you're repeating propaganda, I invite you to do your own debunking. Snopes doesn't always get things right, but your claim here is defamatory nonsense.
https://www.snopes.com/search/?q=donald trump underage girls#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=donald trump underage girls&gsc.page=1
It's not so cut and dry tbh. Just one source among many pointing out that she was steering away from him:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/minneapolis-ice-shooting-minute-minute-timeline-renee-nicole/story?id=129021809
I will say that it's worth mentioning that the officer was dragged by a car some months ago and his overreaction in this situation might have been a kind of trauma-related overreaction. But yes, generally ICE officers have not been comporting themselves well so it's understandable that people are quick to blame them. Let's hope for a proper analysis and a fair investigation that leads to truth and justice.
Like most people, I took the first images shown by the media at face value. As usual, they did a poorly researched and lazy job, simply repeating edited video shown at an angle which made the ICE officer look like a cold-blooded murderer. After a day or two, all of the other angles of the shooting came out and the officer's body cam footage was released. Turns out the first round of videos released was misleading and misreported by the media. Shocker.
"Fascist" is a very specific term and it carries no weight in this discussion. Simply review the facts. All of the facts (meaning, every angle of the event, including those which completely demolish the media's initial reporting).
Also: 'she tried to run over a federal agent' is not a factual description of what happened. She did clip him, it was very likely unintentional. Woman was a committed Christian and by all accounts a very decent person.
There is no footage that shows the ICE being assaulted, none.
At best there is some camera shake, which is totally inconclusive. In the other angles the car is moving at around 2-3mph at the time of the shooting.
Anyone claiming otherwise is arguing in bad faith, like fascists always do.
You make it sound as though there is a media conspiracy around this. No. Simply this: the bodycam footage was not available initially.
It seems that if you supply a paper-thin pretext for murder, there will be people willing to lap it up and parrot it back.
1) Although disgusting, Trump's comment to Billy Bush prior to his interview has never been used as evidence in any trial proving or disproving it. It was a rude joke as far as you or I know.
2) If you're suggesting he was personally involved in sex trafficking minors, that's defamation. No one has ever said he did anything to any of the girls there. As far as the records go, Trump never even went to Epstein's island. On the other hand, Bill Clinton and Bill Gates went there many times. And even so, neither of them has ever been charged with anything either.
3) He did not condone violence on January 6th. He told people to go there peacefully. Claims to the contrary have been proven to be lies for years now.
4) Trump's speech on Jan. 6th (full transcript link is provided, feel free to educate yourself on what was really said). In part:
https://www.rev.com/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6
And he pardoned people because he can do that for unjust prosecutions. Did you know that Joe Biden pardoned his own son BEFORE he was even prosecuted? Now THAT is some Grade-A bullshit.
5) I have no idea what you're talking about a militia shooting someone.
Again, with the defamation. You really should reel that in.
No fascists here. But there are self-styled Socialists and Marxists and likely at least one Communist. These failed Leftist political systems remain popular among entertainers and musicians. Best explanation I've been able to come up with is entertainment is a volatile business and people in it want stability and assurances that they will be able to pursue their interests even if it means taxing others to subsidize those interests. You may have your own opinions about that. But all of these political views are uneconomic and have a long, rich history of failure, mass murder and authoritarianism behind them.
No one would win a case saying that was defamatory
https://www.aclu.org/news/free-speech/theres-no-such-thing-right-not-be-called-nazi
Some will support him to the very end, no matter how bad things get.
Pinochet, Franco, Galtieri all had supporters. People will rationalise any number of horrors before admitting they were wrong.
I’ve reviewed every angle of the footage released so far, and I can’t come to any other conclusion that this was a completely inappropriate use of deadly force. I’m not an expert. Neither are you. I don’t deny it looks as though the vehicle slightly struck the officer. However I do maintain that it looks like a situation that should have been handled differently and that deserves thorough and impartial investigation, as would any law enforcement use of deadly force under normal circumstances.
Is it true that the FBI shut down the investigation into this? I never know what to believe anymore. But if true, that is highly disturbing.
Instead top officials are jumping to judgement. No surprise there. Obama and others did the same. It wasn’t helpful then either.
Do you know why people were at the Capitol building on that day? Not because Trump told them to be there and to riot. Nope. While Trump was giving his speech to supporters several miles away people were already there protesting. They were there because they saw evidence, after evidence, after evidence that the election was being stolen. You can disagree with that assessment, but that's why they were there. They didn't go there to riot. When the Capitol police started firing tear gas, flash bang grenades and rubber bullets at people there, that's when things got out of hand. I've watched unedited video (available online) of the events in question. And you could do the same. It was all released some time ago, yet these lies about what happened persist as if repeating these lies changes reality.
If an officer is deliberately hit by someone driving a vehicle, that may be considered attempted murder by the officer who is being targeted. A lethal response may be legally permissible. This incident may end up in court anyway, so the final word about it isn't yet written. And I am not a lawyer. I've seen evidence of a pattern of aggressive behavior by the deceased woman and evidence that she was trained to "resist" officers using these tactics. Neither of us knows absolutely everything about what happened there.
As far as the FBI shutting down any investigations into this incident, that seems highly unlikely. Everyone involved, including the media, will be filing FOIA requests for all video and reports surrounding the incident, so expect more information to come out and expect more posturing on both "sides" regardless of what the evidence says.
A dictator wouldn't allow the other two branches of the Federal government to exist. Comparing Trump to historical dictators is completely off base. Provide evidence supporting the claim or please be more accurate with the descriptions.
On much of that we agree.
Yeh, it wasn’t just a headline I scanned. I didn’t look any further into it. It’s not going away, that’s for sure. At the very least there will be a civil case.
Are you familiar with the legal definition of the word? "Defamation" means: "the act of communicating false statements about a person that injure the reputation of that person : the act of defaming another"
This does not presuppose a lawsuit is involved. It defines the term.
Derek Chauvin was convicted in a court of law, by a jury, and yet I guarantee you that MAGA supporters will claim his innocence.
The rule of law does not matter to these people. In their eyes Renee Good’s murder will always be justified. It’s not about justice to them, all that matters is allegiance.
Soon they will be trotting out justifications for the takeover of Greenland. It’s as predictable as clockwork.
That's a more sober assessment of the facts as they are known today. Thank you.
Btw, I find it fascinating that my comment: “It truly is a political Rorschach test ... where the ink is blood." has been taken as being both for and against ICE. It's a comment that has become a Rorschach test in it itself. 😑
It's not a judgement on the event either way. It's an observation about how people can look at it and come away with completely different conclusions due to their predispositions. A real person died an unnecessary death. It's sad how little care there seems to be about that compared to the need to be right in all this.
Neither of us knew her, so I imagine propaganda from both sides is being thrown about to make things look more favorable to one side or other. And a reminder that even "good" people can do bad things to others. I'd wait for more information and less hearsay.
Greenland? Derek Chauvin? What? Why are completely unrelated matters being injected into this thread? These discussions are already messy enough.
IMO that’s a bizarre thing to say. That a real person died an unnecessary death is precisely why people are angry.
It's the Other category. People can make the arguments they like. Hopefully respectfully to one another though.
mmm ... I don't think so in many cases. But you're right, the people on the right do seem to be overwhelmingly the ones guilty of this. I think it's them that I'm really reacting to.
Maybe you haven’t seen clips from Minneapolis from the last couple of days? People are very, very angry.
OK yes, I am thinking of only those on the right scrambling to defend what happened. It should be a time of soul searching, not finger pointing.
Sadly that is never going to happen.