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Fight/Flight (An Anti-Immigrant-Demonization-And-Harassment-By-Anyone Rap Track)
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Comments
What SHOULD the thread title be?
“Fight/Flight (An Anti-Immigrant-Demonization-And-Harassment-Such-As-Seen-By-The-Likes-of-Certain-Ice-Agents-And-Operations Rap Track)” 😉
@NeuM you can cross exchange with
"ANTI - Abuse of state power by inadequately trained and racially biased government agents" if you find it rolls better off the tongue.
(just me tho, maybe Pandan has an even better title which is less "intense" for you)
Edit: oh my brother from another mother already did it
OK, so since “racism”, “social justice”, “ICE”, “human rights” are clearly part of the song, they can all be freely discussed here now, right? Or are those things only open to the “do and say things my way or get out” crowd?
This is another blow against the splinter thread, I’m afraid.
Did you know that roughly 45% of ICE agents are “non-white”? It’s true. And Hispanic agents make up the largest portion of those employees. Do you think agents would remain agents if they believed they were all enforcing “racist” policies?
Did you know that one off the core constitutionally limited functions of the Federal government in the U.S. is immigration and border enforcement? So it’s not a matter of “social justice” or “human rights” being infringed to make sure only those who are allowed to remain in the U.S. are here legally.
I wonder if the song would be accepted here if those things were woven into the lyrics.
Please don’t take someone’s bait to crash this thread. Reply to their attempts to do that on the splinter thread.
I’m addressing things which were raised by the songwriters. And I’ve been repeatedly attacked and defamed for doing so.
@NeuM : I am not a moderator.
I am asking people to engage with you on the splinter thread.
How about move all of the purely political comments above my comments to the splinter thread? Is that a fair thing to ask? It’s weird that I’m expected to be the only one to follow the rules here since I’m clearly not in the majority. It’s ironic.
Why are you atting me and replying like this?
My ask was for everyone to take the political commentary to the splinter thread. It was clearly not being directed to you in particular.
Was your comment related to the content of the song in some way?
"principiis obsta, (dum) sero medicina paratur cum mala per longas convaluere moras"
It really wasn’t.
Discussing the content of the song is not the problem. Not discussing it is.
Dear Mods.
If this is the direction we continue to be headed in on the forum then I’m not sure I want to be part of this community anymore.
There are more than enough places online to argue or debate politics. It never goes well. These days it’s worse than ever as people have become so polarised and binary. Subtlety has left the chat. Disagreeing agreeably never entered.
I’d rather the most contentious discussions on the forum are about whether DAWless music is liberating or mind numbingly boring.
I want the worst way I can offend people to be my hatred of jazz.
And if was Michael I‘d want a forum bearing my product’s name to be free of all this. I think that this thread can potentially be a terrible reflection on Loopy Pro.
But that’s just my opinion. If my views are no longer in line with the direction of the forum then please consider me well and truly out as I don’t want to be part of a community where this thread is indicative of what’s acceptable.
It’s not about whether people are right or wrong, just about whether this particular forum is the right place to be right or wrong.
And I apologise unreservedly for any of my posts that fanned the flames. And that’s the point of me posting this. It’s hard to ignore some of the posts here and not want to try and get one’s own point across. And I really, really don’t want to have to do that on an audio forum.
For what it’s worth I’m personally fine with political lyrics in music. That’s pretty much what music is for. Maybe we can try and be less inflammatory with thread titles and let the music speak for itself. But I don’t know how you post something inflammatory and not get an equal and opposite response.
Tricky.
But yeah I’m over it. I don’t think that allowing politics in the ‘other’ thread can work as people won’t be able to stop posting on the main thread. As above. Including me.
So if I am the one that’s out of sync with what this forum should or shouldn’t be then I would accept it with no hard feelings and ask for my account to be deleted. Because I don’t want to see or be drawn in to these kinds of debates anymore on an audio forum.
Believe it or not @klownshed, I agree with everything you just said.
Same here.
Another one for the mods: if you are able and desirous of changing the thread title (for example removing the “Anti-Ice” part to more accurately reflect the content of the song (though the content of the song does imply an opposition to the sort of things that ICE operations currently reflect), I am not opposed. And I apologize if it played a big part in the headache this might have caused you.
@Pandan : you can change the title yourself, I believe.
Oh crap you’re right! Thanks
And done!
So you hate America. 😉
😆
Lol of course the right wingers in this thread are the biggest snowflakes. Us minorities are the ones being snatched and beaten by ICE and y'all have the gall to come in here and complain about politics this and politics that.
Maybe you and @Fruitbat1919 should take a short break and come back when the dust has settled. You both add so much to this forum and are genuinely good folks, unlike the other person who keeps stirring the hornet's nest. If anything, he should leave, not you and Fruitbat.
EDIT: I must apologize in advance to @Pandan for going off-topic on this comment above, but I don't want to lose two more good members of this forum.
I´m backing that up as a compromise, too if that helps the issue
I´d like to remind that words don´t hurt as long as they are not insults or of personal nature.
I don´t feel attacked. No one is throwing knives at me (yet). You have quite a bit of intensity in your tone and the tendency to just completely ignore empiric evidence but I absolutely do acknowledge that you´re not getting personal, @NeuM.
I like political discussions, that´s actually something we are taught in schools here including acting as a speaker for completely different political views. It helps to dismantle all kinds of biases based on our own personal upbringing, religion, gender, skin colour, nationality and so on. I get that it´s maybe a foreign concept, but it does help with political education.
But I know that isn´t common education and that it became a matter of fragility if someone has a different opinion and feels "attacked".
I am taking none of the things and infos shared by @NeuM or anyone else who has resentments towards the message of the song personally but as an invitation to ask questions and share sources. I tried that in the other thread so it´s an actual conversation but it didn´t work out. Ideally with a good political discussion both parties are learning something from the other perspective. I´ve learned quite a bit by the infos you shared (tho I´d really prefer to have the sources attached). And tho I might take other information out of what you share (f.e. I´d ask myself WHY hispanic people are so overly present, too and not just use that number blindly to proof that an agency doesn´t have racial bias. Because afaik most of the killings were still executed by white american agents) so thank you. Everything is just information.
If it´s actually about continuing talking about politics, let´s really have it in the other thread. But that means actual argumentative eticette including sharing sources with empiric evidence and having an actual two sided conversation.
Edit: I´d ask for a bit of patience, too as I am doing all of this in a foreign language and without the use of AI and I´d like to be precise. Leaving this very soft glove here
There are many sources regarding the estimate cited (makeup of ICE agents). So I’ll provide you with several. Since definitive statistics aren’t explicitly provided by the agency, combining sources to get some kind of number is necessary.
The tendency here has been to ignore sources, so that’s why none were provided initially.
https://www.zippia.com/u-s-immigration-and-customs-enforcement-ice-careers-1583818/demographics/
https://www.latinorebels.com/2020/07/06/latinosiceborder/
https://digitalcommons.law.ou.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1212&context=fac_articles
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/20_0611_chco_fy18-dhs-inclusive-diversity-annual-report_0.pdf
Jim, I’m not leaving. And I’d appreciate you retracting that comment. I welcome all kinds of views here and consider all viewpoints worthy of discussion. @Pandan is willing to have a civil and adult discussion in this thread and so should others.
@NeuM said:
I understand. Can we both agree that we like sources and are able to have this discussion without getting personal but curious while staying cool and as scientific as possible? I´m really interested in having this conversation with you but I need us both to agree on mentioned ground rules for debating. Pandan probably won´t have that discussion with you and I can absolutely understand, why. You´ll have to deal with me. And as per request of the mods: Let´s respect them and their request.
@Pandan dear, could you do us and the mods a solid and edit your original post including something along the lines of
"We are aware this might encourage further political discussions or statements. We kindly encourage you (also on behalf of the mod team) to take that part of feedback to the spinoff-thread but we appreciate any kind of feedback on our music itself. Thank you! "
Not all of it.