Comments

• klownshed

  January 16

  It's easy to say "disengage" but we shouldn't have to. That feels so wrong, letting the worst offenders carry on with apparent impunity. Asking us to disengage further empowers those that won't.

  Just make it stop. It's not censorship asking people in an audio forum to avoid politics entirely. There's the entire rest of the internet where they can nazi-on to their heart's content.

  Let this place be what it's supposed to be.

  A bloody audio forum.
• Michael

  January 16

  @klownshed said:
  It's easy to say "disengage" but we shouldn't have to. That feels so wrong, letting the worst offenders carry on with apparent impunity. Asking us to disengage further empowers those that won't.

  Just make it stop. It's not censorship asking people in an audio forum to avoid politics entirely. There's the entire rest of the internet where they can nazi-on to their heart's content.

  Let this place be what it's supposed to be.

  A bloody audio forum.

  This “Other” section is for those willing to partake in this. It’s not listed on the front page, you absolutely don’t have to engage with it.
• Katinkera

  January 17

  @Michael

  Moving a thread is not a punishment of artists, and it is not an attempt to suppress political music.

  Any action to make a piece of art less visible is censorship.

  Political music is allowed. Discussion of the music itself is allowed. What is not allowed is turning music threads into >battlegrounds over real-world politics, ideology, or current events after moderators have asked that discussion to move >elsewhere.

  then you should educate or ban the people who are indeed turning it into a battleground on purpose, repeatedly. Political songs touch on exactly that. They are ment to stir these discussions, but if fascist views can hide in broad daylight, there already is something rotten in the state of denmark it’s not about politics but morality. Fascism has nothing to do with politics. There is no free will, not to vote, not to step out of it, you’re a slave in a people eating machine forced to help the machine eat more people …or kill them. As said, if you’re tolerating this mindset and even more so allow it to enter your circles that’s up to you, but as a woman who loves children and wants to protect them and their kind from what my grandparents and parents had to go through I AM RESISTING. What you are doing with your forum is up to you. As said, I’m out, even more so ofter rereading these last night https://www.ohchr.org/en/human-rights/universal-declaration/translations/english

  I do not believe that the answer to living in dangerous or polarized times is to abandon conversation entirely, or to decide in advance who is beyond the pale and therefore not worth engaging with.

  Fascism and racism is beyond the pale by law.

  That does not mean tolerating abuse. It does not mean excusing harassment.

  Well I felt harassed because our song and the discussion was used by certain people to inject their beliefs forcefully into our thread. Still, I didn’t flag anyone. They did.

  It does not mean pretending harm does not exist. It means drawing a firm line around how we treat one another, not what conclusions we arrive at.

  Interesting, it felt like harassment to me that certain individuals continue to inject THEIR political views into OUR thread and onto other people who were clearly not aligning with said persons. To blame me for putting a finger on micro racism while it is out there in the open and any european forum would have banned said member way earlier is enough for me to leave this place.

  If you want to argue politics in depth, the Other category exists for that purpose.

  And I repeatedly asked said person to continue the conversation there, which was ignored. Instead of repercussing that behavior you moved the whole thread.

  If you want to discuss music, production, or artistic choices, please keep it to that. If you see concrete behavioural violations, >flag them. If a discussion is upsetting but not violating rules, the healthiest option is often to disengage rather than escalate

  Then add more context to your rules so they cannot be used or danced with by people who want to inject microfascism, maybe?

  We didn’t want this discussion, nor did we START this discussion. Our song was used by certain people to have a platform to inject their beliefs.

  We are not going to resolve the moral arc of history in a Loopy Pro forum thread. What we can do is decide whether this remains a place where people can show up, share work, disagree, and still be treated like human beings.

  That was done before by the US and their allies over here, for good reason. They strained through a whole country to get them all. Thoroughly. And there are people in this forum who don’t want to treat others like human beings. That’s why they want to “discuss” human rights. And you’re giving them a platform.

  Let’s leave it there.

  Nope, I am leaving, I am not tolerating being censored for the sake of people who are not acting in good faith and are against human rights.

  Well I profoundly disagree. We are in a terrible place precisely because horrible ideas have become normalised. I want no part in that.

  @richardyot thanks for your solidarity
• Michael

  January 17

  I am going to respond once, and then I am done engaging on this.

  Moving a thread to a different category within the same forum is not censorship. Nothing was deleted, hidden, or suppressed. The content remains visible, accessible, and open for discussion. What changed was the venue, because the discussion repeatedly violated moderator direction and forum structure. That is moderation, not censorship.

  I am also not going to accept the framing that disagreement with your position, or refusal to remove someone for their beliefs, is equivalent to tolerating fascism, racism, or abuse. We do not moderate based on ideological alignment. We moderate based on behaviour. That boundary is not negotiable.

  To be very clear:

  • No one here is being protected for holding “microfascist” views.
  • No one here is being punished for making political art.
  • No one here is a spokesperson for this forum except me.
  • No one here has the authority to decide who is morally permissible to speak.

  If someone injects political arguments into a music thread after being asked to stop, that behaviour is addressed. If someone labels other members as fascists, racists, or bad-faith actors, that behaviour is addressed. This applies to everyone equally, regardless of intent or conviction.

  You are correct that conversation can be uncomfortable. You are also correct that some ideas are abhorrent. Where we differ is that I do not believe the answer is to eliminate conversation entirely or to preemptively exclude people based on belief rather than conduct. Once that line is crossed, the forum stops being moderated and starts being ideologically curated. I am not willing to run it that way.

  You are, of course, free to leave. That is your choice. But the rules, structure, and moderation approach of this forum will not be rewritten under pressure, accusations, or moral ultimatums.

  This discussion is now closed from a moderation standpoint.