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Immigration & I.C.E. - A call for proposals

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Comments

  • @AlexY said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Paulieworld said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    Trump was elected, based in large part, on his promise to deport illegal aliens.

    True.

    I wonder how many of those who voted for him are now appauled by the way the deporting is being conducted by ICE thugs?

    The numbers are too low, due to illegal interference and threats in the Democrat-run states. Trump should’ve invoked the Insurrection Act months ago (and no, that’s not evidence “fascism”, that’s the constitutionally correct way to handle the violent Marxists and Communists who are engaging in insurrection).

    The funny thing about "facism" is that when it benefits their side, it's called "patriotism".
    I have repeatedly asked 2 questions.

    1. Why were 11-20 million people allowed to enter this country illegally?
    2. Why weren't immigration laws changed when they had the opportunity and the VOTES?

    They are uncomfortable questions that nobody is willing to address.
    I think I'll just sit back and observe for awhile.

    Those people weren’t “allowed in” because nobody noticed. ...(snip)...

    There is a lot of misleading and incorrect information on your chosen web site and I don't have all day to address these things, so I've had it outsourced to an "A.I." instead.

    Quote:

    The Center for Migration Studies of New York (CMS) is a pro-immigration advocacy organization (affiliated with the Scalabrini missionaries) that published its July 2024 piece as a rebuttal to statements from Trump and Republicans. Many of its "corrections" rely on selective interpretations of data, lower-end population estimates, and optimistic fiscal assumptions. Below is point-by-point documentation from official government sources (CBP, DHS, Texas DPS, Census CPS/ACS), nonpartisan analyses (National Academies of Sciences), and restrictionist researchers (Center for Immigration Studies — CIS, Migration Policy Institute — MPI) showing that the original claims the article labels "false/misleading" have significant empirical support.

    1. Undocumented population: “15-20 million” (Trump) vs. CMS claim of ~10.9 millionCMS uses its own low-end estimate derived from older ACS/Census data.

    Counter: More recent and comprehensive estimates are substantially higher:CIS (using Jan 2025 CPS, adjusted for undercount): 15.8 million illegal immigrants (up 5.4 million since Jan 2021).
    MPI (mid-2023): 13.7 million.
    CMS itself later revised upward to 12.2 million in 2023.
    The 15-20 million range aligns with high-end figures that include recent gotaways, parolees with temporary status, and visa overstays not fully captured in surveys.

    1. “More than 10 million undocumented immigrants have flooded across our border during the Biden administration”CMS argues encounters include repeats/returns, Trump-era releases were higher, and net entries are lower.

    Counter (official CBP data):FY2021–FY2024: 10.8 million nationwide encounters; 8.72 million at Southwest border.
    Plus ~2 million known gotaways since FY2021 (House Homeland Security Committee, using CBP data).
    Net illegal population growth under Biden: ~5–6 million (CIS), far exceeding any prior four-year period. Releases/parole programs (CHNV, etc.) added hundreds of thousands more with work permits.

    1. Immigrants “take jobs from US citizen workers”CMS cites BLS: citizen employment +7.2 million since 2021.

    Counter: This ignores displacement in low-wage sectors and labor-market competition. Immigrants (legal + illegal) filled most net job growth in many periods; native-born employment in construction, service, and agriculture has stagnated or declined in relative terms. Post-2021 wage growth for low-skilled natives was suppressed in high-immigration areas.

    1. Undocumented immigrants “bankrupt Social Security and Medicare”CMS: They pay ~$16 billion/year in payroll taxes but receive no benefits.

    Counter (National Academies of Sciences 2017, still the gold-standard longitudinal study):Lifetime net fiscal drain for immigrants without college degrees (the majority of recent illegal entrants) is $68,000–$279,000 per person (state/local costs dominate, especially education for U.S.-born children).
    Illegal immigrants’ households use welfare at high rates (59% per CIS using Census data) via citizen children, EITC, etc. Aggregate contributions are dwarfed by long-term costs.

    1. Undocumented immigrants “led to a national housing crisis”CMS: Immigrants (25% of construction workforce) build housing.

    Counter: They also massively increase demand. Immigrant-headed households grew 2.4 million since 2021 (CIS/Census); recent arrivals are overwhelmingly renters. Studies (including CIS analysis of metro areas) link high immigration to rent increases of 10–20%+ in affected markets. Mass deportation would reduce demand and ease pressure.

    1. “Illegal aliens vote in elections”CMS: Federal law bans it; rare.

    Counter: The Heritage Foundation’s verified database documents >1,600 proven election-fraud cases overall, including dozens to hundreds of non-citizen registration/voting instances (exact number varies by update; ~68–77 non-citizen voting cases identified in analyses of the database). While not “millions,” it is not zero, and vulnerabilities (no nationwide citizenship verification on voter rolls in many states) exist. Texas, Georgia, and Virginia have removed thousands of non-citizens from rolls in audits.

    1. Immigrants “commit violent crime more than US citizens”CMS: Immigrant communities are safer; lower crime rates.

    Counter (Texas DPS data, the only state that records immigration status at arrest):When properly counting illegals identified later in prison (CIS re-analysis), illegal immigrants have higher conviction rates than natives for homicide, sexual assault, and kidnapping in multiple years.
    Cato/Light studies (often cited by CMS side) use narrower definitions and still show illegal immigrants with lower rates than natives—but higher than legal immigrants—and the gap narrows or reverses for serious violent crimes when full identification is included.

    1. Asylum-seekers are “in compliance with the law”; limited legal pathwaysCMS frames most border crossers as lawful asylum claimants.

    Counter: Credible-fear grant rate is high initially, but final asylum grant rate is ~20–40% (EOIR data). Most claims are ultimately denied, yet releases/parole allow years of presence. Congress has failed to expand legal low-skilled pathways, but executive parole programs (CHNV, etc.) have admitted >1 million outside normal channels.

    1. Mass deportation is not in the country’s best interestCMS: Huge economic harm, $500 billion+ cost, police-state risks.

    Counter: CIS, FAIR, and House Budget Committee estimates show illegal immigration imposes $150–200+ billion annual net fiscal cost (services minus taxes). Removing recent arrivals could yield net savings over time (CBO-style scoring shows long-term GDP and debt benefits from lower low-skilled inflows). Enforcement costs are real but dwarfed by ongoing welfare, education, and enforcement burdens.

    Bottom line: CMS selectively uses the lowest population estimates, ignores gotaways and parole releases, downplays fiscal drains documented by the National Academies, and presents contested crime interpretations as settled fact. Higher-end estimates (CIS, MPI), official CBP encounter/gotaway totals, Texas DPS conviction data, and NAS fiscal modeling all support the thrust of the statements the article calls “false.” The debate is not over “myths” vs. “facts” but over which data sources and assumptions are most comprehensive.

    ...Unquote.

  • edited February 4

    ... comment removed because it wasn't clear if Paulie was replying to my comment or not. I'm guessing not.

  • McDMcD
    edited February 4

    People will ask “Why do you bother arguing with people that won’t change their minds or be impressed by facts?”

    For 2 reasons:
    1. It exposes the oppositions key arguments and the facts they will pull out in debate. (I.e. preparation… sparring).
    2. It helps to organize your thinking and how you would present your side. (I.e. practice).

    Why would someone that believes nothing will change? They really are not laying attention. Change in politics is constant.
    The “Overton Window” shifts pretty dramatically over time when everyone has access to media… and online is media.
    Loopy Pro is media.

    I learn a lot here in the other section… I value this venue for dialogue because the quality of communication is so much better that short form “blogging” with character limits.

  • edited February 4

    @McD said:
    People will ask “Why do you bother arguing with people that won’t change their minds or be impressed by facts?”

    For 2 reasons:
    1. It exposes the oppositions key arguments and the facts they will pull out in debate. (I.e. preparation… sparring).
    2. It helps for organize your thinking and how you would present your side. (I.e. practice).

    Why would someone that believes nothing will change? They really are not laying attention. Change in politics is constant.
    The “Overton Window” shifts pretty dramatically over time when everyone has access to media… and online is media.
    Loopy Pro is media.

    I learn a lot here in the other section… I value this venue for dialogue because the quality of communication is so much better that short form “blogging” with character limits.

    The views of Obama and Clinton are today considered "not Left enough" by the radical Leftists, Marxists and Communists who are leading the Democratic party around by the nose today. That's an Overton Window shift that is extremely dangerous for the United States. Trump was elected twice because of the radicalism that has infected the political Left. Why has this radicalism flourished? Because of the influence of the CCP. And who is the biggest threat to the CCP? Trump.

    Businessman and Libertarian-leaning (moderately conservative) podcaster and commentator David Friedberg believes the US is heading toward civil war due to the extreme political positions of those on the Left today. There is a book called "The Fourth Turning" which analyzes generational characteristics and it concludes we are currently in period in which civil war in the US is inevitable. I hope both are wrong, but it will take a "deradicalization" effort to avoid it and I think that starts by defunding the radical elements in the US who are attempting to bring societal collapse about.

  • Sure, two can play the AI game. I asked "are these claims about CMS misleading":

    "Great question. Let’s vet the passage claim‑by‑claim, focusing on (a) what CMS actually is, (b) how different organizations estimate the unauthorized population, and (c) whether the numerical “counters” given against CMS are sound. I’ll cite primary sources (CBP/DHS/USCIS), as well as nonpartisan researchers (MPI, National Academies, Pew) and restrictionist researchers (CIS), so you can see where estimates line up—or diverge.


    1) “CMS is a pro‑immigration advocacy organization (affiliated with the Scalabrini missionaries).”

    • What CMS says it is. CMS describes itself as an educational institute/think tank devoted to migration research and policy analysis. It is a member of the Scalabrini International Migration Network—a Catholic network that provides services to migrants. That affiliation is public on CMS’s website. Descriptively: CMS has a faith-linked affiliation and publishes peer-reviewed work (e.g., International Migration Review, Journal on Migration and Human Security). That’s not the same as “advocacy only.” [cmsny.org]
    • Implication for bias. Affiliation doesn’t negate research value, but readers should be aware of CMS’s institutional perspective. The right way to evaluate is to scrutinize methods and sources in each claim.

    Verdict: The affiliation part is accurate; labeling CMS as solely “pro‑immigration advocacy” is overstated. It is a research institute with a clearly pro‑migrant mission. Evaluate content by methods and citations. [cmsny.org]


    2) The July 2024 CMS article and its scope

    CMS published “Correcting the Record: False or Misleading Statements on Immigration” on July 24, 2024, explicitly aimed at common 2024 campaign statements, including those attributed to Donald Trump and other Republicans. So saying the CMS piece was a “rebuttal” to those statements is fair. [cmsny.org], [cmsny.org]


    3) Undocumented population size: “15–20 million” vs. CMS’s \~10.9 million

    What different teams report (methods matter)

    • CMS (2024): \~10.9 million based primarily on ACS microdata (residual method), with detail on mixed‑status households; this figure appears in their 2024 research and in the July 2024 corrections page. [cmsny.org], [cmsny.org], [cmsny.org]
    • MPI (mid‑2023): \~13.7 million, using an updated residual method that explicitly adjusts for undercount and includes some “liminal” statuses (e.g., parole, TPS, pending asylum) in the unauthorized category. This is higher than CMS’s 10.9M. [migrationpolicy.org]
    • Pew (methodology): Pew’s 2025 update (residual method with survey omission adjustments) puts 2023 at \~14.0 million (method paper; topline reported in media summaries), again above CMS’s earlier 10.9M. [pewresearch.org], [axios.com]
    • CIS (Jan 2025 CPS): \~15.4–15.8 million in early 2025, using CPS and its own adjustments (CIS then reported a decline to \~14.8M by May 2025). These are the highest of the cited estimates and rely on CPS (not ACS) plus CIS’s imputation choices. [cis.org], [cis.org]

    Is CMS “using its own low-end estimate from older data”?

    • CMS’s 10.9M is indeed based on 2022 ACS microdata (released 2023), analyzed in a 2024 report—so it lags MPI/Pew’s mid‑2023 re‑estimates and CIS’s Jan‑2025 CPS‑based figure. Calling it “older” relative to later 2023–2025 estimates is true. But CMS also later acknowledged a higher 2023 figure (\~12.2M), which narrows the gap—so portraying CMS as frozen at 10.9M is incomplete. (CMS cites 10.9M in the 10/2024 mass‑deportation report; subsequent communications and outside syntheses note provisional 2023 increases.) [cmsny.org]

    Does “15–20 million” have solid support?

    • The 15–16M band is supported by CIS (early 2025), and 13.7–14.0M by MPI/Pew (mid‑2023). But “20 million” is not supported by MPI, Pew, DHS, or CMS, and was explicitly flagged as overstated by multiple fact‑checks in 2024. [politifact.com], [politifact.com]

    Verdict:

    • It’s misleading to say CMS’s number is illegitimate; it’s a standard residual‑method estimate, albeit at the low end compared with MPI/Pew (2023) and CIS (2025).
    • It’s also misleading to assert the “15–20M” range is broadly supported; most nonpartisan research falls below 15M for 2023. [migrationpolicy.org], [pewresearch.org], [politifact.com]

  • Continued:

    4) “More than 10 million undocumented immigrants have flooded across our border during the Biden administration” (and CMS’s rebuttal)

    What CMS argued

    CMS noted that “encounters” ≠ unique people (recidivism) and that many encountered are returned; it contrasted nationwide encounters with net population growth; and it claimed Trump-era releases were higher in one comparison window. [cmsny.org]

    What the counter‑passage claims (and the numbers)

    • CBP nationwide encounters, FY2021–FY2024: \~10.8 million, and \~8.72 million at the Southwest border, per House Homeland Security Committee summaries based on CBP. Those tallies are accurate as encounter totals, not de‑duplicated persons. [homeland.house.gov], [ebs.publicnow.com]
    • Known gotaways since FY2021: Frequently cited as \~2 million in congressional fact sheets referencing CBP data; DHS/CBP do not post a continuously updated public “gotaways” total page, so this is an aggregated oversight estimate, not an official dashboard figure. Treat as approximate. [homeland.house.gov], [homeland.house.gov]
    • De‑duplication and removals: FactCheck.org and CBP discuss high recidivism during Title 42 (27% in FY2021, then falling later), meaning encounters significantly overcount unique individuals; DHS also reports large numbers removed or expelled. Thus “10+ million people entered” is not a sound reading of encounter data. [factcheck.org]
    • Net growth of unauthorized population under Biden:
      • CIS attributes \~+5.4 million to the illegal population (Jan 2021 → Jan 2025 CPS), reaching \~15.4–15.8M; this is CIS’s net growth result. [cis.org]
      • MPI/Pew show growth too, but to 13.7–14.0M by mid‑2023, implying net increase of roughly +3.0M (2019→2023), less than CIS’s +5.4M (and over a different window). Methods differ, especially treatment of undercount and “liminal” categories. [migrationpolicy.org], [pewresearch.org]

    Verdict:

    • Saying “10+ million undocumented have flooded across conflates encounters with net entries, ignores de‑duplication, and omits removals/expulsions; that framing is misleading. [cbp.gov], [factcheck.org]
    • However, it is accurate that total encounters since FY2021 are \~10.8M nationwide, and that the unauthorized population likely grew substantially—with reputable estimates ranging from +3M (MPI mid‑2019→mid‑2023) to \~+5.4M (CIS Jan‑2021→Jan‑2025), depending on method/timeframe. [homeland.house.gov], [migrationpolicy.org], [cis.org]

    5) Parole programs and “releases added hundreds of thousands more with work permits.”

    • CHNV parole began for Venezuelans (Oct 2022) and expanded to Cubans, Haitians, Nicaraguans (Jan 2023), capped at up to 30,000 per month across the four groups. Independent tallies show hundreds of thousands received travel authorization/parole by late 2024 (e.g., \~530,000+ cited in House factsheets; NGO briefs list \~110k Cubans, 211k Haitians, 93k Nicaraguans, 117k Venezuelans paroled as of Oct 2024). Parolees are eligible to apply for work authorization (EAD). [homeland.house.gov], [d3jwam0i5c...dfront.net], [americanim...ouncil.org]
    • Work authorization mechanics: Parolees can receive EADs under 8 C.F.R. §274a.12(c)(11); TPS holders also have EADs. USCIS publishes EAD volumes by category in its data library (but CHNV‑specific EAD counts are spread across reporting). [uscis.gov], [littler.com]

    Verdict: The statement that parole/release programs added hundreds of thousands with work authorization is directionally correct (magnitude: several hundred thousand), though the passage would be stronger with precise program‑by‑program counts and dates. [homeland.house.gov], [d3jwam0i5c...dfront.net]

  • edited February 4

    6) “CMS relies on selective interpretations, lower‑end population estimates, optimistic fiscal assumptions.”

    • On “lower‑end estimates”: As shown, CMS’s 10.9M (2022 ACS) sits at the low end relative to MPI/Pew (2023) and CIS (2025). Calling it “lower‑end” is fair; calling it methodologically unsound is not (standard residual method; also used by DHS, Pew, MPI). The Social Security Bulletin (2025) reviews the residual method as the predominant approach. [ssa.gov]
    • On fiscal assumptions: The National Academies (2017)—the most cited nonpartisan synthesis—finds:
      • First‑generation immigrants can be a net fiscal cost at the state/local level in the short run;
      • Their children (second generation) are among the strongest fiscal contributors;
      • Long‑run macro impact on growth is positive;
      • Wage impacts on natives are small on average, with distributional effects concentrated among prior immigrants and native high‑school dropouts.
        If CMS leans on these conclusions, that isn’t “optimistic”—it is mainstream scholarship. [nationalac...demies.org], [books.google.com], [jstor.org]

    Verdict: The “optimistic fiscal assumptions” charge is too broad. CMS’s fiscal characterizations are generally aligned with the National Academies’ consensus, which is neither “pro‑immigration advocacy” nor “restrictionist.” [nationalac...demies.org], [books.google.com]


    7) Bottom line: Are the anti‑CMS claims themselves misleading?

    Mostly, yes—in how they frame evidence and methods.

    • Accurate kernels: CMS has a pro‑migrant institutional affiliation; its 10.9M estimate is lower than MPI/Pew 2023 and much lower than CIS 2025; and total encounters since FY2021 are indeed about 10.8M nationwide. [cmsny.org], [cmsny.org], [migrationpolicy.org], [cis.org], [homeland.house.gov]
    • Misleading moves:
      • Treating encounters as unique entrants (or as net additions) and thus equating them with “10+ million people entering” is wrong; recidivism and removals matter. [cbp.gov], [factcheck.org]
      • Using “15–20M” as if widely supported goes beyond what MPI/Pew/DHS show; 20M has weak support outside political rhetoric and select modeling choices. [migrationpolicy.org], [pewresearch.org], [politifact.com]
      • Suggesting CMS’s methods are idiosyncratic is off; the residual method is the field’s standard (used by DHS, Pew, MPI, CMS). Differences largely reflect timing, undercount adjustments, and definitional choices (e.g., inclusion of liminal statuses). [ssa.gov]
      • Painting CMS’s fiscal conclusions as “optimistic” ignores the National Academies’ baseline: small average wage effects, positive long‑run growth, and second‑generation fiscal gains. [nationalac...demies.org], [books.google.com]

    A more precise takeaway:

    • The unauthorized population likely rose sharply in 2021–2023; credible point estimates for mid‑2023 run \~13.7–14.0M (MPI/Pew). CIS’s early‑2025 estimate is higher (\~15–16M) but hinges on CPS‑based modeling and different adjustments. [migrationpolicy.org], [pewresearch.org], [cis.org]
    • Encounters (\~10.8M, FY2021–FY2024) are events, not people. Net growth is much lower than encounters and depends on method/time window (+3M MPI 2019→2023 vs. +5.4M CIS 2021→2025). [homeland.house.gov], [migrationpolicy.org], [cis.org]

    8) Quick reference table (what each source supports)

    • CMS (2024): 10.9M (2022 ACS) → lower‑end, standard method; later communications note increases into 2023. [cmsny.org], [cmsny.org]
    • MPI (mid‑2023): 13.7M; includes liminal statuses; updated undercount adjustment. [migrationpolicy.org]
    • Pew (2025 on 2023): \~14.0M; residual method with omission corrections. [pewresearch.org]
    • CIS (Jan 2025): 15.4–15.8M; +5.4M since Jan 2021; CPS‑based; preliminary decline to 14.8M by May 2025. [cis.org], [cis.org]
    • CBP (FY2021–FY2024): \~10.8M nationwide encounters (not unique persons); \~8.72M at SW border. [homeland.house.gov]
    • DHS/CBP de‑dup & dispositions: Recidivism high in Title 42 period; millions removed/expelled; encounters overcount unique entrants. [factcheck.org]
    • CHNV parole: Hundreds of thousands paroled with EAD eligibility; cap up to 30k/month across four nationalities. [americanim...ouncil.org], [d3jwam0i5c...dfront.net]
    • Fiscal effects (National Academies, 2017): Small average wage effects; long‑run growth positive; 1st gen net cost at state/local, 2nd gen strong fiscal contributors. [nationalac...demies.org], [books.google.com]

    9) How I’d fairly reframe the contested points

    • Population size: “Credible estimates put the unauthorized population at \~13.7–14.0M by mid‑2023 (MPI/Pew), with one restrictionist model showing \~15–16M by early‑2025. CMS’s earlier 10.9M (2022 data) sits at the low end but used a standard method.” [migrationpolicy.org], [pewresearch.org], [cis.org]
    • Entrants under Biden: “CBP recorded \~10.8M encounters FY2021–FY2024, but that does not equal unique people or net increases. Net growth of the unauthorized population was several million, with plausible ranges depending on method and period (+3M MPI 2019–2023; \~+5.4M CIS 2021–2025).” [homeland.house.gov], [migrationpolicy.org], [cis.org]

    Want me to go point‑by‑point through the rest of the CMS July 2024 claims (e.g., jobs, crime, releases vs. removals) and cross‑walk each with CBP/DHS/BLS/NAS evidence? I can produce a side‑by‑side table with line‑level citations for each assertion.


    No AI:

    Even the updated data from other organizations falls at least 5 million below the 20 million being claimed. But also, the figure by itself just lumps everyone into the "illegal immigrant" bucket without any nuance as to protected status, etc. So yeah, the original claims were way overinflated.

    But what's actually funny is that someone who regularly equivocates, pulls claims our of their arse, moves goalposts, all of a sudden cares about factual data lol-- and even then, they have to outsource their thinking to AI since they can't be bothered to do it for themselves.

  • @NeuM said:
    The views of Obama and Clinton are today considered "not Left enough" by the radical Leftists, Marxists and Communists who are leading the Democratic party around by the nose today. That's an Overton Window shift that is extremely dangerous for the United States. Trump was elected twice because of the radicalism that has infected the political Left. Why has this radicalism flourished? Because of the influence of the CCP. And who is the biggest threat to the CCP? Trump.

    Trump has moved the Overton Window as well:
    Hegseth has removed any mention of soldiers that are black… including General Colin Powell’s plaque at Arlington Cemetery.
    This is in line with the idea that DEI is racist and not helpful in a meritocracy.

    I’ll stop there because the “what about” game is ineffective… after returning serve a few times it’s best to move on to find the
    Voter that can be moved. trump is doing a great job of getting that middle sector to change sides this time.

    The election in Texas this week swung a Pro-Trump district (17% in 2024) to Demoract candidate by +15… a 32 point swing in Texas no less. What this means is that the gerrymandered districts Trump requested for Texas will probably make Texes loose house seats and NOT gain the +5 they expected based on 2024 results. Oops. No takes back.

  • @McD said:

    @NeuM said:
    The views of Obama and Clinton are today considered "not Left enough" by the radical Leftists, Marxists and Communists who are leading the Democratic party around by the nose today. That's an Overton Window shift that is extremely dangerous for the United States. Trump was elected twice because of the radicalism that has infected the political Left. Why has this radicalism flourished? Because of the influence of the CCP. And who is the biggest threat to the CCP? Trump.

    Trump has moved the Overton Window as well:
    Hegseth has removed any mention of soldiers that are black… including General Colin Powell’s plaque at Arlington Cemetery.
    This is in line with the idea that DEI is racist and not helpful in a meritocracy.

    I’ll stop there because the “what about” game is ineffective… after returning serve a few times it’s best to move on to find the
    Voter that can be moved. trump is doing a great job of getting that middle sector to change sides this time.

    The election in Texas this week swung a Pro-Trump district (17% in 2024) to Demoract candidate by +15… a 32 point swing in Texas no less. What this means is that the gerrymandered districts Trump requested for Texas will probably make Texes loose house seats and NOT gain the +5 they expected based on 2024 results. Oops. No takes back.

    The expectation is that Republicans always fail to show up for midterm voting. That could change this time.

  • edited February 4

    New drinking game:

    Down a shot every time a far right looney on Loopy Pro accuses anyone to the left of Reagan of being a Marxist or a Communist

  • Since there are no "far right loonies" here, you're going to be very thirsty.

  • edited February 4

    Take a shot also when a far right looney doesn’t realize that they’re in fact a far right looney.

  • Things an alcoholic might say to justify their drinking?

  • edited February 20

    .

  • edited February 4

    @mcmillanjonmusic said:
    To have a good discussion, there has to be trust. There seems to be none of that here. Most are not "honest brokers" and therefore the discussion will devolve endlessly/hopelessly.

    Good luck everyone in this section :smile:

    When the first response to almost any post not fitting the preferred Left-leaning viewpoint in the Other threads is an ad hominem attack, then a poster has no interest in real discussion, only in throwing bombs and derailing all attempts at genuine exchanges of ideas.

    Speaking for myself, if anyone posts something thoughtful that I disagree with, they'll get a thoughtful reply.

  • edited February 4

    Take a shot when a right-wing looney starts playing DARVO because his McCarthyist fan fiction didn't land. We’re gonna need more tequila for this one.

  • Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre 1946

  • Only the guy who isn't rowing has time to rock the boat. - Jean-Paul Sartre

  • Sometimes the boat isn't going anywhere good

  • @Paulieworld said:
    Only the guy who isn't rowing has time to rock the boat. - Jean-Paul Sartre

    Good quote.

  • @AlexY said:
    Sometimes the boat isn't going anywhere good

    Aaaaaaand out comes the Hitler argument again. If anyone has demonstrated a Hitler-like view recently, it was definitely Joe Biden.

  • Oh, wait, here’s an actual thing that isn’t completely made up right wing looney fan fiction

  • edited February 4

    @AlexY said:
    Oh, wait, here’s an actual thing that isn’t completely made up right wing looney fan fiction

    ![]

    Ooh. Look. Real propaganda.

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/jan/28/images-comparing-democrats-to-musks-inauguration-h/

  • This is why the US can't continue to be a Republic. It needs to be split up. Conservatives are so far gone and there is no way to meet in the middle. They can keep the South, the Dakotas, Montana and Idaho can join up with the conservatives in Alberta Canada, and then you'll have the East Coast and West Coast. Let's see how the racist South can pull itself up on their bootstraps when they don't have California and New York subsidizing their states.

  • @NeuM said:

    @Paulieworld said:
    Only the guy who isn't rowing has time to rock the boat. - Jean-Paul Sartre

    Good quote.

    He had some good ones…

    “Hell is other people”

  • edited February 4

    Drink a shot when a far right wingnut forgets to have A.I. think for them therefore pwning themselves because they don’t realize the link they posted contradicts them.

    There isn't enough agave in Mexico to keep up with the number of own goals dis guy keeps scoring.

    @NeuM said:

    @AlexY said:
    Oh, wait, here’s an actual thing that isn’t completely made up right wing looney fan fiction

    ![]

    Ooh. Look. Real propaganda.

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/jan/28/images-comparing-democrats-to-musks-inauguration-h/

  • edited February 5

    @JeffChasteen said:

    @Simon said:

    @NeuM said:
    Trump was elected, based in large part, on his promise to deport illegal aliens.

    True.

    I wonder how many of those who voted for him are now appauled by the way the deporting is being conducted by ICE thugs?

    Why would they be appalled? They voted for that corpulent, shit-scented buffoon.
    His supporters are just as vile as him. They may not know much, but they know they love the cruelty.

    I feel like singing...

    Corpulent shit-scented buffoon
    Corpulent shit-scented buffoon
    Corpulent shit-scented buffoon
    Corpulent shit-scented buffoon
    Second verse
    Same as the first verse

  • @Paulieworld said:

    @NeuM said:

    @Paulieworld said:
    Only the guy who isn't rowing has time to rock the boat. - Jean-Paul Sartre

    Good quote.

    He had some good ones…

    “Hell is other people”

    Another banger.

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