What's the best symphony app?

JanKun · August 12

@vlaoladis said:

@JanKun said:
There are plenty of good sounding apps mentioned here. I haven't seen SWAM apps from Audio Modeling mentioned but they can sound convincing too. Of everything available on iOS, I find Staffpad to be the most impressive of all in terms of realism. Its major drawback is that it requires an apple pencil and the user needs to be familiar with traditional music notation. But it's an amazing tool and there are so many great sounding libraries. A few exemples of what can be achieved with Staffpad

More experimental or contemporary but made only with Staffpad

Wow, I'm absolutely charmed by the 1st one. Which Staffpad's library did you use for the choir there?

Thank you! Glad you heard something you liked.
For the choir, I think it was Cinesamples Voxos. Later on, musescore released muse choir which is also very usable (and very much free 😁)

vlaoladis · August 12

@JanKun said:

@vlaoladis said:

@JanKun said:
There are plenty of good sounding apps mentioned here. I haven't seen SWAM apps from Audio Modeling mentioned but they can sound convincing too. Of everything available on iOS, I find Staffpad to be the most impressive of all in terms of realism. Its major drawback is that it requires an apple pencil and the user needs to be familiar with traditional music notation. But it's an amazing tool and there are so many great sounding libraries. A few exemples of what can be achieved with Staffpad

More experimental or contemporary but made only with Staffpad

Wow, I'm absolutely charmed by the 1st one. Which Staffpad's library did you use for the choir there?

Thank you! Glad you heard something you liked.
For the choir, I think it was Cinesamples Voxos. Later on, musescore released muse choir which is also very usable (and very much free 😁)

Yeah, I've been looking at Voxos for quite time but indeed there's a lot to be squeezed from the Muse first. But as far as I understand Muse doesn't support syllables, right? So it should be quite difficult to make staccato lines (like in O Fortuna from Carmina Burana)

JanKun · August 12

@vlaoladis said:

@JanKun said:

@vlaoladis said:

@JanKun said:
There are plenty of good sounding apps mentioned here. I haven't seen SWAM apps from Audio Modeling mentioned but they can sound convincing too. Of everything available on iOS, I find Staffpad to be the most impressive of all in terms of realism. Its major drawback is that it requires an apple pencil and the user needs to be familiar with traditional music notation. But it's an amazing tool and there are so many great sounding libraries. A few exemples of what can be achieved with Staffpad

More experimental or contemporary but made only with Staffpad

Wow, I'm absolutely charmed by the 1st one. Which Staffpad's library did you use for the choir there?

Thank you! Glad you heard something you liked.
For the choir, I think it was Cinesamples Voxos. Later on, musescore released muse choir which is also very usable (and very much free 😁)

Yeah, I've been looking at Voxos for quite time but indeed there's a lot to be squeezed from the Muse first. But as far as I understand Muse doesn't support syllables, right? So it should be quite difficult to make staccato lines (like in O Fortuna from Carmina Burana)

Voxos offers some syllables but not on all section of the choir and the selection of syllables is definitely limited. But this by far the best thing you'll find on iOS in terms of choir for the time being and it's not too expensive

MadGav · August 12

@belldu said:
I'm possibly the only one here who used Notion Mobile, now called Fender Notion. Its cheap compared to StaffPad, doesnt require a pencil and is a good alternative if you like entering traditional notation.

I 'remixed' a GeoTony Geoshred track with it:
https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/59690/following-footsteps-in-the-snow-notion-mobile#latest

I put it through a 'concert hall' reverb using Thafknar to get it sounding half decent.

I use (what’s now) Fender Notion, but only to make lead sheets when I can’t find a decent one for a tune… I barely make a noise with it!

hes · August 12

@McD said:

@Fantastic said:
In my o> @vlaoladis said:

@Fantastic said:

@vlaoladis said:

@Fantastic said:
maybe worth also comparing korg module london symphony orchestra with xinematix, vcso, and iconica, i haven't bought iconica yet so can't say, but km is usable. i end up going back to doing it line by line with swam due to a frustration with the fixedness of library type sounds, but its a much more expensive option because you'd want at least viola sections, violin sections, cello sections, flute, clarinet and bass clarinet, for a strings and woodwinds composite (woodwinds not being sections you'd have to process/layer further), and a comfort with line by line workflow and possibly using expressive interface. the swam stuff is the ideal for organically and completely customized dynamics, like crescendo via controlling the aftertouch, or gradual increase in tremolo, or sudden falls on note-ends, the type of things that with samples have fixed parameters

I tried to make a small ensemble with SWAM strings (all 4 solo plugins, 2-3 instance of each one with different intonation and sound settings) but the final result wasn't that good tbh, even pizzicato sounds that should in theory be the easiest ones (the sound is too short to notice the issues)

Well, OK, I must admit, my result were nothing but my skill's issue

I suspect most of us underestimate that this is not as easy as playing a piano patch, and some of these guys have been learning how to coax that kind of ensemble expressiveness for a good number of years. Polyswam is going to be interesting

Edit: Clearly though it'll be worth your continued endeavours in the longer term! Hopefully not all that long

That guy in the video is using a “Breath controller” which unfortunately costs more than my last iPad purchase (which was in the $400 range out the door). I’ve been searching for a budget breath controller )a device that maps air flow to a MIDI CC. The only app I can recall that was sensitive to air flow was “Ocarina” by Smule… maybe a Mozaic script or FAC Envolver hack to complete the conversion to a CC stream.

There are plenty of inexpensive wind controllers that can be used for this purpose, i.e., sending stream of midi breath cc's to be used however you want. Just disregard the note-playing midi and use the breath cc's. The hardware that translates breath to digital is dirt cheap and quite good even in least expensive instruments. This is an example of one I had a couple years ago and have since given away, but it would have worked fine for the breath control you describe. It's $60:
https://www.amazon.com/Vangoa-EWI-100-Electronic-Synthesizer-Rechargeable/dp/B0C1GC5K5Y

I think there are sub $100 options for this that even have Bluetooth midi.

McD · August 12

@hes said:
I think there are sub $100 options for this that even have Bluetooth midi.

I have one of those less expensive EWI’s (Electronic Wind Instrument) but ideally you
Want something that just fits comfortably in your mouth so you hands are free to play the MIDI keyboard. That style of Breath Controller comes it around $800 at Sweetwater and there isn’t
A Chinese knock off or Behringer version… yet. If enough people state the desire to own one then someone will focus on a cost sensitive design and marketing plan. One can only hope.

I’m going down the volume pedal (i.e. expression pedal) path until maybe something pops up on EBay…

hes · August 12

@McD said:

@hes said:
I think there are sub $100 options for this that even have Bluetooth midi.

I have one of those less expensive EWI’s (Electronic Wind Instrument) but ideally you
Want something that just fits comfortably in your mouth so you hands are free to play the MIDI keyboard. That style of Breath Controller comes it around $800 at Sweetwater and there isn’t
A Chinese knock off or Behringer version… yet. If enough people state the desire to own one then someone will focus on a cost sensitive design and marketing plan. One can only hope.

I’m going down the volume pedal (i.e. expression pedal) path until maybe something pops up on EBay…

That Vangoa controller is so light I thought about making some kind of holder/strap or stand so I'd have both hands free.

But, in any case, there are other options that are far less than $400, or not sure what $800 one there could possibly be, or why I would want it over something like the Teco Breath Controller.

The Teco Breath Controller has been around many years, featured in many youtube videos. The breath-only version is $150, the version with breath and 3-axis motion control (which I have) is around $100 more. Here's the basic $150 one:
https://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-controller

Here's another one I only just noticed, seems to be similar in function to the Teco, several versions all under $200:
https://www.papritech.com/airmotion-series

McD · August 13

@hes said:

@McD said:

@hes said:
I think there are sub $100 options for this that even have Bluetooth midi.

I have one of those less expensive EWI’s (Electronic Wind Instrument) but ideally you
Want something that just fits comfortably in your mouth so you hands are free to play the MIDI keyboard. That style of Breath Controller comes it around $800 at Sweetwater and there isn’t
A Chinese knock off or Behringer version… yet. If enough people state the desire to own one then someone will focus on a cost sensitive design and marketing plan. One can only hope.

I’m going down the volume pedal (i.e. expression pedal) path until maybe something pops up on EBay…

That Vangoa controller is so light I thought about making some kind of holder/strap or stand so I'd have both hands free.

But, in any case, there are other options that are far less than $400, or not sure what $800 one there could possibly be, or why I would want it over something like the Teco Breath Controller.

The Teco Breath Controller has been around many years, featured in many youtube videos. The breath-only version is $150, the version with breath and 3-axis motion control (which I have) is around $100 more. Here's the basic $150 one:
https://www.tecontrol.se/products/usb-midi-breath-controller

Here's another one I only just noticed, seems to be similar in function to the Teco, several versions all under $200:
https://www.papritech.com/airmotion-series

Thanks for slipping me a clue! I swear I really scoured Google for suitable vendors… go figure.
I’m going to give PapriTech a shot… I like the Neo model to get the promo discount and free shipping in the US. I checked into Teco and shipping from the UK and EU to $ made it much more expensive… it may be worth the extra but I’ll review the PapriTech Neo when it arrives in a week or so.

UPDATE: PapriTech is located in the UK… but their offer to me was in U$ and the shipping using “Post” was free. They probably have a designated distributor in the US to get it here in California, USA reasonably fast for no extra fees. They do offer UPS and FedEx to improve the ETA.

mjcouche · August 13

@vlaoladis said:

@Fantastic said:

@vlaoladis said:

@Fantastic said:
maybe worth also comparing korg module london symphony orchestra with xinematix, vcso, and iconica, i haven't bought iconica yet so can't say, but km is usable. i end up going back to doing it line by line with swam due to a frustration with the fixedness of library type sounds, but its a much more expensive option because you'd want at least viola sections, violin sections, cello sections, flute, clarinet and bass clarinet, for a strings and woodwinds composite (woodwinds not being sections you'd have to process/layer further), and a comfort with line by line workflow and possibly using expressive interface. the swam stuff is the ideal for organically and completely customized dynamics, like crescendo via controlling the aftertouch, or gradual increase in tremolo, or sudden falls on note-ends, the type of things that with samples have fixed parameters

I tried to make a small ensemble with SWAM strings (all 4 solo plugins, 2-3 instance of each one with different intonation and sound settings) but the final result wasn't that good tbh, even pizzicato sounds that should in theory be the easiest ones (the sound is too short to notice the issues)

Well, OK, I must admit, my result were nothing but my skill's issue

One other thing missing is that Divisimate - is this still pc/ Mac only? Would be a huge benefit. It’s definitely doing some lifting in the background.

Does polythemus do something like this? Or just a massive AUM template?

belldu · August 13

A note of caution around breath controllers.
I bought an EWI recently from AliExpress, and its much cheaper than 'branded ones' like Roland or Yamaha... but yet its still really good. See here for info:

https://forum.loopypro.com/discussion/69155/song-for-flute-and-piano-swam-variflute-pure-piano#latest

However, while its sounds good with Swam woodwinds, playing it with strings just doesnt sound right due to the envelope of the notes. So, I'm also thinking about just using long throw sliders or an expression pedal. This then sent me down a rabbithole (I'm forever falling into them), as youtube suddenly started filling up with Vangelis videos. In the late 90s he used 16 expression pedals simultaneously! to control his monster midi setup.

Toin00z · August 14

Nobody mentioned World Piano : https://apps.apple.com/us/app/world-piano-notes-drum-beats/id1457405203
This, on top of a huge selection of world instruments, has a wide symphonic section (woodwinds, brass, strings, full orchestra). Granted not everything sounds good, but there are plenty of great sounds in there, and the app is efficient and stable. I've been using it for a long time and I can't recommend it enough.

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What's the best symphony app?

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