FRUM

[Deleted User] · September 2016

@StormJH1 said:

@Fruitbat1919 said:
@StormJH1 Microbrute does not have AudioBus! Chuck it away then!

Haha, I know! It's such a piece of crap! Grab that SDK and get on it, Arturia!!

My comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek, but the point remains - I was blown away not just by the cost of hardware relative to software, but how little functionality is expected out of it. I have to think that many (probably most) of us own multiple iOS devices. I only assume that because most people here have an iPad as a primary device, and it seems like if own an iPad, you probably had an iPhone at one point or another. Well, if you have a second iOS device, run FRUM on that and capture the audio with a 3.5mm cable the way you would with virtually any hardware synth.

I don't mean to excuse that it lacks AB/IAA/ACP/MIDI - I want those features. But you just realize that if you like the app, you can imagine it being worth 3 dollars pretty easily if you don't mind hooking up a cable to record it instead of using a "virtual cable" (AudioBus).

The one omission that pretty much indefensible is the lack of a local file saving system. That really does take away from mobile experience to have to upload to some cloud thing, rather than just saving locally and working on it bit by bit.

One iOS device only me. Poor now lol

[Deleted User] · September 2016

@syrupcore said:

A website has more access to data about your computer than an app has to data about your phone. If you have third party cookies turned on, a third party website can connect you with other places you visited, interacted with etc.

I have my browser set to clear cookies when it's closed, and I nearly always do this when switching between sites. Basically a habit from building websites and saving having to remember to do it after an update, but means it's hard for advertisers to pin down my buying habits.

We also have some pretty tight privacy policies here now: if your site uses cookies, by law it must declare this at the point of entry, so I don't see why a web based app that collects data should be exempt from laws other websites have to abide by.

@syrupcore

All of your apps can do this. They have to tell you they're doing it but they don't have to tell you first. If you're still concerned about it, you might want to have a look through you various apps' "about" screens.

I'm fairly privacy conscious. I use a VPN when I'm in a coffee shop. I tell facebook nothing. I don't have google search history turned on. I turn off third party cookies. I generally use Firefox and have been toying with Opera now that they have VPN built in. I'm a fan of private browsing mode when shopping. Apps collecting basic analytics so they can make their apps better... I'm all for it.

I've nothing against it - if that's what they're really doing and not harvesting data to sell in to marketeers, but I want to know when they're doing it. A standard UK website has to make it clear this is happening, with a link to details of what is being collected. Hiding some misleading information that's been cut and pasted from elsewhere on an About screen isn't good enough.

telecharge · September 2016

@MonzoPro said:

@syrupcore said:

A website has more access to data about your computer than an app has to data about your phone. If you have third party cookies turned on, a third party website can connect you with other places you visited, interacted with etc.

I have my browser set to clear cookies when it's closed, and I nearly always do this when switching between sites. Basically a habit from building websites and saving having to remember to do it after an update, but means it's hard for advertisers to pin down my buying habits.

We also have some pretty tight privacy policies here now: if your site uses cookies, by law it must declare this at the point of entry, so I don't see why a web based app that collects data should be exempt from laws other websites have to abide by.

@syrupcore

All of your apps can do this. They have to tell you they're doing it but they don't have to tell you first. If you're still concerned about it, you might want to have a look through you various apps' "about" screens.

I'm fairly privacy conscious. I use a VPN when I'm in a coffee shop. I tell facebook nothing. I don't have google search history turned on. I turn off third party cookies. I generally use Firefox and have been toying with Opera now that they have VPN built in. I'm a fan of private browsing mode when shopping. Apps collecting basic analytics so they can make their apps better... I'm all for it.

I've nothing against it - if that's what they're really doing and not harvesting data to sell in to marketeers, but I want to know when they're doing it. A standard UK website has to make it clear this is happening, with a link to details of what is being collected. Hiding some misleading information that's been cut and pasted from elsewhere on an About screen isn't good enough.

FFS, mate. Leave it. You don't even own the app.

[Deleted User] · September 2016

@telecharge said:

@MonzoPro said:

@syrupcore said:

A website has more access to data about your computer than an app has to data about your phone. If you have third party cookies turned on, a third party website can connect you with other places you visited, interacted with etc.

I have my browser set to clear cookies when it's closed, and I nearly always do this when switching between sites. Basically a habit from building websites and saving having to remember to do it after an update, but means it's hard for advertisers to pin down my buying habits.

We also have some pretty tight privacy policies here now: if your site uses cookies, by law it must declare this at the point of entry, so I don't see why a web based app that collects data should be exempt from laws other websites have to abide by.

@syrupcore

All of your apps can do this. They have to tell you they're doing it but they don't have to tell you first. If you're still concerned about it, you might want to have a look through you various apps' "about" screens.

I'm fairly privacy conscious. I use a VPN when I'm in a coffee shop. I tell facebook nothing. I don't have google search history turned on. I turn off third party cookies. I generally use Firefox and have been toying with Opera now that they have VPN built in. I'm a fan of private browsing mode when shopping. Apps collecting basic analytics so they can make their apps better... I'm all for it.

I've nothing against it - if that's what they're really doing and not harvesting data to sell in to marketeers, but I want to know when they're doing it. A standard UK website has to make it clear this is happening, with a link to details of what is being collected. Hiding some misleading information that's been cut and pasted from elsewhere on an About screen isn't good enough.

FFS, mate. Leave it. You don't even own the app.

I was responding to syrupcore who mentioned me in his reply. If that's ok with you?

telecharge · September 2016

@MonzoPro said:
I was responding to syrupcore who mentioned me in his reply. If that's ok with you?

You have posted on every page in this thread -- often multiple times. If we are judging by appearances here, you seem to have an agenda.

Or is it more about liking the sound of your own voice, wagging your legal e-peen, and intellectual douchbaggery?

Will · September 2016

@MonzoPro said:

@syrupcore said:

A website has more access to data about your computer than an app has to data about your phone. If you have third party cookies turned on, a third party website can connect you with other places you visited, interacted with etc.

I have my browser set to clear cookies when it's closed, and I nearly always do this when switching between sites. Basically a habit from building websites and saving having to remember to do it after an update, but means it's hard for advertisers to pin down my buying habits.

We also have some pretty tight privacy policies here now: if your site uses cookies, by law it must declare this at the point of entry, so I don't see why a web based app that collects data should be exempt from laws other websites have to abide by.

I forgot you did WP development. So yeah, if you go to one of those "What's my browser" sites that gives you the UA and your IP address and yada yada yada... that's about what dev can get from within an app. Within an iOS web app, they can get the same stuff a browser normally shares along with a few extra similar system type details about the iOS device itself. They're explicitly not allowed to collect the UUID because that's the only (potentially) personally identifiable data point that could be used in some scheme to see a map of you app activity.

For what it's worth, the asinine EU 'cookie' laws are for organizations on European soil. Fair to guess that's not where the Frum developer is. Even if he were, the law is specifically about storing and accessing data on the end user's computer—not about communicating or storing information on a server.

@syrupcore

All of your apps can do this. They have to tell you they're doing it but they don't have to tell you first. If you're still concerned about it, you might want to have a look through you various apps' "about" screens.

I'm fairly privacy conscious. I use a VPN when I'm in a coffee shop. I tell facebook nothing. I don't have google search history turned on. I turn off third party cookies. I generally use Firefox and have been toying with Opera now that they have VPN built in. I'm a fan of private browsing mode when shopping. Apps collecting basic analytics so they can make their apps better... I'm all for it.

I've nothing against it - if that's what they're really doing and not harvesting data to sell in to marketeers, but I want to know when they're doing it. A standard UK website has to make it clear this is happening, with a link to details of what is being collected. Hiding some misleading information that's been cut and pasted from elsewhere on an About screen isn't good enough.

See above. Honestly, not trying to argue with you. I'd much prefer all apps say all of this up front (like, in the app store description). But it's perplexing that this instance bothers you so much when so many other apps do the exact same thing.

Will · September 2016

@telecharge said:

@MonzoPro said:
I was responding to syrupcore who mentioned me in his reply. If that's ok with you?

You have posted on every page in this thread -- often multiple times. If we are judging by appearances here, you seem to have an agenda.

[deleted so that if you decide to edit your post it's not still sitting here]

Settle down Telecharge. He's just expressing his opinion. I disagree with it so I am too but you might have noticed that neither of us are attacking each other. Take a note please.

telecharge · September 2016

@syrupcore said:
Settle down Telecharge. He's just expressing his opinion. I disagree with it so I am too but you might have noticed that neither of us are attacking each other. Take a note please.

You got it, boss. I'm out.

[Deleted User] · September 2016

@syrupcore said:

But it's perplexing that this instance bothers you so much when so many other apps do the exact same thing.

I didn't notice music apps did this sort of thing, to be honest. The apps I use on the iPad are usually self-contained synths, DAWs and rhythm boxes. Some give you the option to go online and do stuff, but it's not something I tend to do. I don't have games or other web based stuff on here, so it's come as a bit of a surprise.

As I've said I've got nothing against this app in particular, I like what it does, it was just discovering it was web based after I'd bought it, and then discovering the data collection bit. And my PC was hacked a couple of days ago, which didn't ease my concerns about online security....

I guess I've learned a few things from this, and I notice the App Store description has been updated, so some good has come out of this discussion.

I still think all apps should inform users they're going to collect your data before they're installed, but that something for Apple to sort out.

Will · September 2016

@MonzoPro said:

I guess I've learned a few things from this, and I notice the App Store description has been updated, so some good has come out of this discussion.

I still think all apps should inform users they're going to collect your data before they're installed, but that something for Apple to sort out.

[insert thumbs up icon here]

Matver61 · September 2016

It seems we get some kind of conclusion and a verrryyy long thread. Don't know if the dev is going to speak with us about his app ?

db909 · September 2016

@Matver61 lol the dev has more than likely read or been informed of this 13 page long thread about their app. They're probably like "oh shit these guys are crazy"

High5denied · September 2016

@db909 said:
@Matver61 lol the dev has more than likely read or been informed of this 13 page long thread about their app. They're probably like "oh shit these guys are crazy"

Ya, "crazy-cool"

kobamoto · September 2016

I was just thinking, what would Prince say about all of this and now that he's gone, the mystery surrounding this question will only deepen.

JohnnyGoodyear · September 2016

@High5denied said:

@db909 said:
@Matver61 lol the dev has more than likely read or been informed of this 13 page long thread about their app. They're probably like "oh shit these guys are crazy"

Ya, "crazy-cool"

We're crazy but, you know, we care.

db909 · September 2016

There is that.

Carnbot · September 2016

The bugs are definitely flowing in this thread, not just in the app

I'm not so sure how much I'd spend on a web based music app in the future, reliability seems to be the issue for me more than security necessarily...but I see the potential advantages for certain types of ideas. I saw a thread recently about a web based DAW. Not really an interest for me, but there's going to be a lot more of it coming.

However I really like what Frum can do so I hope they continue doing it. (and make the midi in more reliable)

Proppa · September 2016

There's been so much focus on the Data / Privacy / ESL issue that what Frum can actually Do may be getting eclipsed here: the app is very special and can produce some seriously sexy and refreshingly original audio.

Quirks abound but personally the tradeoff is overwhelmingly worth it.

JohnnyGoodyear · September 2016

@Proppa said:
There's been so much focus on the Data / Privacy / ESL issue that what Frum can actually Do may be getting eclipsed here: the app is very special and can produce some seriously sexy and refreshingly original audio.

Agreed.

Quirks abound but personally the tradeoff is overwhelmingly worth it.

This is precisely what I am hoping Mrs. Goodyear will be whispering to the dude at the pearly gates etc

srcer · October 2016

@cl516 said:
@srcer said:

Ok, figured out the discrepancy.
The OP link is to the CA app store.
This https://appsto.re/us/MFkWeb.i is to the US app store.
The two currencies use the same symbol, so it wasn't immediately obvious what was going on.

haha! yes indeed I'm Canadian! btw, either way how this thing goes in November, y'all are welcome up here north of the border. ok, as you were!

I love me some Canadian weather in the summer (actually as a snowboarder, I'd probably love it in the winter too), as I can't go outside down here in the summer for fear of the sun's death rays. Rented bikes and rode all the way to Butchart Gardens. Victoria was perfectly sunny, but not a singe, even with no hat

This was all before we had a kid, so don't know when we'll be doing that again, but definitely would go again

srcer · October 2016

@Proppa said:
There's been so much focus on the Data / Privacy / ESL issue that what Frum can actually Do may be getting eclipsed here: the app is very special and can produce some seriously sexy and refreshingly original audio.

Quirks abound but personally the tradeoff is overwhelmingly worth it.

I'm so close to buying, I really want Link, that's the only deal breaker for me (I can deal with save and copy which it has now), but I'm tempted to go ahead and make an exception as a show of support

SpookyZoo · October 2016

@syrupcore said:

@telecharge said:

@MonzoPro said:
I was responding to syrupcore who mentioned me in his reply. If that's ok with you?

You have posted on every page in this thread -- often multiple times. If we are judging by appearances here, you seem to have an agenda.

[deleted so that if you decide to edit your post it's not still sitting here]

That's classy! Well played.

robosardine · October 2016

I have deleted mine now. I can't settle each time I open it and see the catchphrase :- 'let the bug flow'..... maybe the clue is in the title.

JohnnyGoodyear · October 2016

@robosardine said:
I have deleted mine now. I can't settle each time I open it and see the catchphrase :- 'let the bug flow'..... maybe the clue is in the title.

It has to be said that when I am invited to their vast corporate headquarters that tagline will be the first thing I mention. I know, I know, their hair may be on fire, but they're wearing an unsuitable wig...

eross · October 2016

just bought this app. it is pretty cool. I don't know if the developer is on this forum, but here are some suggestions that would really make this app shine.
1. audiobus/ inter-app connectivity
2. abelton link
3. more than 4 tracks
4. a delay, and reverb effect
5. automation of all the knobs.
it already sounds pretty sweet. this stuff would set it over the top.

kobamoto · October 2016

https://www.facebook.com/utabi.hirokawa/?fref=ts

telecharge · October 2016

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@robosardine said:
I have deleted mine now. I can't settle each time I open it and see the catchphrase :- 'let the bug flow'..... maybe the clue is in the title.

It has to be said that when I am invited to their vast corporate headquarters that tagline will be the first thing I mention. I know, I know, their hair may be on fire, but they're wearing an unsuitable wig...

Should they take a more direct approach?

You probably know this, JG, but you see English all over Japan and some translations are unintentionally funny.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/Japan/Misc/Signs/Funny

http://www.thejapanguy.com/japanese-english-that-will-make-you-giggle

JohnnyGoodyear · October 2016

@telecharge said:

You probably know this, JG, but you see English all over Japan and some translations are unintentionally funny.

I do know this. AND I have been all over Japan and they found ME unintentionally funny, so it's a fair trade etc,

JohnnyGoodyear · October 2016

@kobamoto said:
https://www.facebook.com/utabi.hirokawa/?fref=ts

telecharge · October 2016

@JohnnyGoodyear said:

@telecharge said:

You probably know this, JG, but you see English all over Japan and some translations are unintentionally funny.

I do know this. AND I have been all over Japan and they found ME unintentionally funny, so it's a fair trade etc,

I have no idea how widely known this is. Hopefully, the dev will explain it or change it. But my take on it is they have adopted the ladybug/ladybird as their logo/mascot. So, "Let the bug flow" is like "Let the music play"' or "Let the voice sing."

I may be wayyy off on this, but even so, the weird phrase adds to the Japanese charm IMO.

Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.

FRUM

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