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Pricing of IOS apps versus VSTs
Why do we have to pay up to ten times more for a VST plugin?
For example Moog's Model 15 IOS app - I've paid 15€ (and it's imho one of the best sounding analog modeling synth - and its poly as well). Arturias Moog Modular costs around 150€ (also poly, but not that fat and warm). Or Korg Gadget - 20€ for the app and 200€ for PC/Mac version. Sugar Bytes Turnado - 13€ for the app and 120€ as VST.
So what is the reason?
Comments
The question could also be asked this way:
"why are we lucky enough to only have to pay ten times less for an iOS app?"
Apples and oranges.
There are far more advanced and better sounding modulars for desktop.
Then the price with all IAP for the iOS Gadget is not far away from the macOS version where everything plus all Gadget´s as AU,VST,AAX (and soon NKS) are included.
Some apps are indeed cheap if you really get the same options like their desktop counterparts.
But in general iOS apps are not really cheaper since a lot VST´s offer so much more where you would need several apps. Also you get a lot free stuff as VST which would cover a lot ground, even before you have to spend a penny.
So after some years of using and buying for all these OS and devices i see it simply like this:
You get what you paid for....sometimes more, sometimes less!
Piracy.
But that is also a problem. People won´t pay the same for iOS apps, even if they would get the same options.
But like said, sometimes (not always) it´s just an illusion that iOS apps are cheap compared to plug-ins.
I know it´s not liked saying it here but i don´t find that is a good thing at all for the music market.
I would prefer higher prices and more "pro" tools instead of all the tiny apps which can count a lot after some time too. But the app store makes the rules.....
I still vote for an own "pro" app app store.
In a nutshell, it's the app economy. Developers have to price their apps for the market they're serving if they want to sell. It's not just music apps, either. You can buy productivity apps and games in the app stores for much less than their PC/Mac equivalent.
VST Plugins can be used in professional grade DAWs on powerful computers that have none of the limitations of iOS.
Also the truth of the matter is there are many free vsts available for the desktop that are every bit as good as what you have to pay for on iOS, so the reality is that the PC world is a lot cheaper than iOS if you want it to be.
It's a really interesting question, and i'd love to have overall sales comparisons between the two platforms. The most obvious thing would be to take at Apps/VSTs that are available on both platforms, like. e.g. Klevgrand Korvpressor, and apply this question. On Desktop it's 39,99€ and on iOS 7,99€.
I agree. Apple "killed" it with their App Store on the mobile devices. Interestingly, on the macOS App Store many of the Big Name developers are missing, refusing to compete in that market, i guess for exactly that reason, and a refusal to pay 30% to Apple.
and the humble 30% Apple charges for a full SDK plus worldwide distribution and money handling. Makes developing very affordable.
True, but there are no really triple AAA games on mobile platforms. I mean kind of Mass Effect. And yet some people spending more on casual fremium app games via IAP.
Oh. it´s a clever market......
which ones ?
I have a very good one (Creamware Scope) based on PCI cards, that does some 'better' sounds than the Model15 (if you consider general sound processing), but certainly NOT regarding that specific Moog model.
(I'm really picky with sound and didn't detect any flaws yet)
PPG in IOS can easily compete with DIVA/Zebra VSTs and (to my greatest surprise) the IOS DRC synth has a stunningly similiar tone to that DSP hardware mentioned above.
I think its mostly because people wouldnt buy so many apps if they costed more. So it makes more sense to lower the price 10th and get 100 times more customers, than to ask 200€ for model 15 for example and only a few people buying it. But i do think that without piracy VSTs could be bit cheaper as well, and maybe there are other smaller factors as well.
P900 f.e. (mac only). Reaktor 6 blocks (but you have to tweek yourself). Run that at 96khz.
In general there are awesome synths for iOS indeed but i still find a lot of the desktop ones much better like Dune 2, Zebra , Repro-1, Spire whatever...
You are right that the Model 15 might be the best for an analog Model 15 (i don´t know how a real one should sound). But i can create the same patches with P900 which has more filters to choose and has a lot more juice in the low end with resonance full on (great for drum sounds). But it might be less "accurate" since it uses the "better" Minimoog modelled filter instead of the "thinner" Model 15 (they really loose out fast with high resonance here).
But it might be a matter of taste too since i find Diva better than most of the iOS stuff.
And it´s not like it´s a giant difference anyway....with FX it´s another thing. There is see a big gap in iOS.
But the other thing is that i also get all the automations, endless instances drag´n drop more easy sharing of samples sources and whatever.
Of course all this could change. But i don´t think so if developers can´t charge more for apps in the future.
And of course there is not really a bad sounding synth these days.
A great side effect is that i will get Zebra 3 for free and maybe Repro-5 too (or for a very affordable price).
We all know that developers can´t give us custom upgrade paths and other special sales, offers, bundles for loyal customers. These things are much better in the plug-in world plus that you can resell most of your stuff if you don´t want it anymore. So i see it also as investment
Like said, it´s a total different market.
I don´t care really about the OS or devices but just about developers and tools itself. I still wish i could get my favorite iOS apps for a windows multi-touch device and could buy that from the developers itself.
But like a lot developers for desktop tools don´t offer iOS apps there are reasons vice versa.
In a perfect the prices would meet somewhere in the middle and i just buy from the developer and get it for all available OS´s.
I also think if iOS music market should grow and apps getting more complex and getting bigger and so on we see a slowly increase in prices. Once trapped you will pay the same (or even more) at the end.
Look for all the free stuff you get for windows (and mac too of course).
But it´s also feels sometimes indeed weird that you have to pay much more for the same.
So sometimes the plug-in world is cheaper, sometimes iOS and sometimes they are equal.
But from things developers posted here it doesn´t seems they sell 100 times more (maybe just the famous one).
Otherwise they could sell plug-ins for the same and get 100 times more customers.
There is no such big market yet.
Another thing is you get 100´s or 1000´s of patches with most plug-ins while iOS apps working around that via IAP.
At the end it´s all the same.
I think that´s true, especially for independent developers. Big companies doesn´t need that since they already have covered that.
Well maybe an app that now sells under 100 copies might not sell any if the price was 10 times higher. You dont need everyone to sell even one copy of an app and you can still divide average music app sales by 100
I think only developers who offers tools for both platform can answer that.
Not sure if anyone is willing to say something and speak about it here open.
But for sure big companies look at iOS for the future. We already have a lot of them here. Mostly still tiny apps or derivates and ports from their plug-ins.
For midi controller apps and a few special synths i could even see a bigger market here.
But we all just speculate about this and no one knows really how it will go.
I just don´t feel save on iOS yet.
Also piracy on iOS is possible as we know. Maybe not like on Android or windows......but that will increase too with a bigger market.
Lieber Heiliger Bim-Bam!
First reason:
iOS apps are NOT that useful and powerful and integrated in DAWs like VST-Plugins. If you are a serious (or a not-so-serious) Producer or Musician then VST Plugins are more versatile. If you look to the full eco-system, VST (with a VST-DAW) gives you much more opportunities - for example hardware etc. pp. We cant expand the HD (until it perfectly fits to our needs).
A Mac or PC is a quite more open system. This (really: this) influences prices and the worth of the complete software ecosystem very much.
Second reason:
iOS economy is quite different. There are people (like me) who have payed in the sum around 100 bucks (Euro) for iOS software - but much less (!!) for VST Plugins.
(ähem: nothing)
I dont think i am the only one. I will never pay 100 or 200 Euro for a VST plugin. For me this is like throwing away money - after some years the OS of my computer changes and i cant use my VST plugins anymore. I just cant afford to pay so much money for VST plugins. Sorry. I may spend 330 Euro for a Korg Monologue, but this is hardware. It will work in 10 years - i can sell it then, and i maybe only loose 50 percent of its worth.
Expensive VST Plugins are 100 percent lost. I just dont accept this. It is a hobby. I cant afford to loose so much money. Sorry.
Third reason:
iOS economy is quite different. Marketing is different. Income situation and cash flows are different. About 70 percent of the iOS sales directely goes to the developer. This is much more than selling VST Plugins with Thomann - or do enough marketing to get expensive VST plugins sold. With iOS economy (and a plugin which maybe has a typical price of 2,99 or 4,99) customer are willing to try out.
Fourth reason:
Usually customer cant download and try out demo programs in iOS economy. Lowering the risk for the customer then only has one working solution: Lowering the prices. Additionally: iOS devices and software more or less have lots of "gadget feeling" in oppositon to the "serious use feeling" of a Mac or PC. This "feeling" influences prices, too.
There are advantages and disadvantages with the iOS economy. We just have to understand: It is quite different. And it is meant to be quite different.
In the end of the day, i think, iOS economy pays out for lots of developers. Not for all, i know.
Oh, and maybe there is a market for a luxus version of an iOS app. Patterning in expanded special edition for 150 Euro, for example. I just wont buy it. But maybe there are people who would buy a more expensive luxus version as a thankyou for the developer. As far as i know it is quite more common - in these cases - to just buy anything, what the developer/team has produced.
This is a behavior which is quite unknown in the world of VST plugins.
As long as you can't plugin a mouse and just plugin usb storage to which you can read and write iOS won't be a serious OS. Android has lots of potential, but so far it has an annoying audio input lag.
But also the competition there is much much bigger (including fantastic sounding free synths).
I'm not sure but I think it was mentioned on another thread that blocswave has sold over 7 million?... If so it seems like a pretty big market to me!
This results in a kind of an "inverted market economy". A bit like the Akerlof model of "lemons". Usually (without hacks and this high number of really good free softsynths) we would see the usual price mechanics of a market economy.
Indeed, the situation is quite different. Only a really small portion (of usually wealthy) customers will buy VST Plugins. The rest uses free synths and hacks.
For the remaining customer (who really buys - only a small percentage) price is just not as important as it usually is. On the other hand the quite reduced market share (with only about 2 percent or 5 percent remaining customer who are willing to pay) the developers/companies cannot afford to offer their VST synths for cheap prices.
What would happen, for a VST developer, when he lowers the price of an expensive program (formerly for 150 Euro) to 3,99 Euro? There is still a lot of competition from the "0-Euro-Apps" and hacks!! As a result - this has be shown lots of times - the number sales dont go up that much, maybe they double. But the income from sales are dropping then.
Inverted market economy.
If there would be no market we wouldn´t see any new tools. There are still coming so much new synths and sample libraries out every year.
People who uses piracy sucks of course and i wish them a bad virus. If someone choose to just use free tools it´s of course O.K.
Some tools needs years to develop and i wouldn´t go to work for nothing too.
The pro market and serious hobbyists seems still a good one since those people are willing to pay and especially pros don´t care because they fast get their value back.
However, i just hope the music apps doesn´t go all the way the iOS apps do. Fremium crap with IAP.
While i love some free tools i couldn´t replace most of my payed tools with any of them and even some of my favorite free tools are from developers i bought stuff from because i want to support them.
For many iOS developers it might be a side project while some small companies which created plug-ins make a living from it and have to pay their employees.
But everyone to it´s own......
Not sure, i think they mean their customer base in general (Novation).
I mean look just at the top payed apps and you see what is there.
Just make a ring tone app and you get more customers lol.
So true!
At least in the mac app store Logic is Nr.1 here (Germany) from payed music apps most of the time.
I didn't read many of the other replies, but here's my theory. I very much prefer the iOS environment to the PC environment. See, in iOS, there's no searching for the directory you wish to install plugins into which ALWAYS defaults to that damn Steinberg folder, no draconian 20-step license registration system (which inspires piracy unless you're rich and successful), and most important thing pertaining to this thread - you don't have to take out a house loan just to set up your studio (which inspires piracy unless you're rich and successful), and you have a great amount of portability and battery life.
So, why the price difference then? iOS started out as a mobile operating system with the intention of having a few low-grade games and camera toy apps, and the maximum space you could get at the time (I believe) was 64gb. It has a certain "stigma" associated with it regarding productivity. The casual iOS user is NOT going to shell out over $20 for just an app, and the professional iOS musician most likely won't shell out over $50 just for one item. We already paid that type of money for the device itself.
iOS has its own brand of flexibility. It's just not the flexibility we're used to when coming from a strictly Mac/PC environment. There are no open-folder systems (although a blessing in disguise with preventing malware granted you didn't jailbreak your device). At least there's an app (or two) for that. There are no VST plugins outside of Auria, etc. We only just recently got AUv3 technology, but it's not like many app devs are all rushing to beat the van with adding AUv3 compability. We STILL have a limited amount of space in most devices (save for the iPad Pro's 256gb storage space), but at least on an iPhone it's workable with an unlimited LTE data plan and Dropbox.
Cheaper prices also play on the culture of instant gratification that seems to affect most iOS users (shamefully to say, myself included). If you charge the same price for a synth app as you would for its PC vst counterpart, you lose sales. Simple as that. Cheaper prices means the customer gets the product faster before losing interest and moving on, which means more sales, which probably means a bigger revenue in the long run, which pays for more development, which means new products, which means you can sell the new product for hundreds on the PC and for cheaper on iOS, which means the customer gets the product faster before losing interest and moving on, which means more sales, which means a bigger revenue in the long run, which....you get the drill.
This is just a theory.
@pichi @Looping_Loddar: I'm using my IOS apps fully integrated in my DAW with full midi and audio support with Studiomux app via Lightning cable. So at least my iPad is an ultra flexible midi instrument. I can trigger up to eight apps with full midi cc at once on different midi channels, freeze them and use them again. Apps are integrated in my DAW and I don't see any kind of limitation - for a fraction of the price.
Where i find iOS really expensive sometimes is the stuff like Crudebyte iSymphonic. While it sounds great it just is not really deeply sampled and you get not much control for my taste. It´s like they sell a few patches from which some share the same (small) sample pool. If i count all the IAP i get more bang for buck elsewhere.
I use that too this way often. But nothing can replace all the deep integration of plug-ins i have in my DAW like automation parameters and a lot other stuff.
At the end it doesn´t matter if that makes us happy what we use.
I wouldn´t care to migrate in a heartbeat to anther eco system as long as it gives me what i (think) to need.
Far as I can tell, iOS today is a consumer platform, not a professional one. So with VST plugins, devs can rely on sales to pros and aspiring pros, and companies that have real expenses and have to make real money are there. I think the apps sold for iOS at super cheap prices must not require the development resources that big and more reliable pro apps require. They can be coded and maintained by an individual or small team, and the devs of those apps often are willing to work for free or extremely low monetary return. Then you have some iOS apps by larger companies that are special edition or ported versions of desktop software, and are more a promotional product. Free desktop apps must also be from devs not needing to make money but, fortunately to my mind, that hasn't killed the market for those working for a living.
As iOS musicians, we're lucky for what we have at low cost, but we also have less than what's possible. Personally, I wouldn't try to build a studio around an iOS device, but for the price, it's a powerful instrument in the system.