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Creative patch design in... Auria
I've had an idea... and would be interested in people's thoughts...
Creating full tracks in anything other than Gadget is, to be honest, a pain IMO. Setting up multiple apps and working with lots of little bits of bounced audio is just fiddly and time consuming. Especially if they are anything other than a simple 'jams' played in live. Nothing beats Gadget (in my opinion) for detailed arranging of tracks (which I normal spend a couple of weeks on in short 1 hour bursts).
However, i'm feeling a little limited by the sounds I can make in Gadget. I want to get that lovely Animoog evolving thing going, I would quite like to make some super thick and weird bass and sub bass patches. I also want to glitch. I also want some lovely grainy granular stuff etc.
So my new plan is thus this:
Create and arrange the basic track in Gadget - getting as close as possible to the sounds you want.
So for example, I can get Wolfsburg to do a pretty reasonable job of emulating an interesting Animoog patch by setting a long release and a long delay and having the modular matrix use S&H LFOs to add some interesting artifacts modulating the filter/res on the release. Add some ensemble and you're getting there... but not quite because you run out effects slots and can't add any crush - and it doesn't necessarily have the thickness and warmth etc...
Equally with basses and sub basses I can get something reasonable going in Gadget - but not necessity that killer bass patch
So anyway - get it right in Gadget in terms of lengths of notes and basic structure etc...
But then take the stems into Auria and use Saturn, Turnado, Volcano (and some great distortion plugin,? please advise), to effectively rework and redesign the different Gadget patches so they start sounding like Animoog, Thor and Sunriser - and they get modulated/automated in Auria too
Anyone have any advice on this? E.g. I guess I should open up all the filters in Gadget before I put it out to Auria and then I can re-do the filters in Volcano? Same with delay and reverb i'm sure...
Anything else spring to mind?
Anyone else doing anything similar in terms of workflow? I guess it's pretty obvious - but i'm jst starting to think that diffferently about a patch in gadget - and thinking of it more as a basic tone that I can work up into more of a 'patch' in Auria...
Comments
This is very similar to my workflow with Beatmaker2 & Auria, and synths like Animoog(etc). I drop my samples into BM2(typically from Audioshare) where I chop, filter & work the envelope. Then I create MPC-type instruments and form my loops. Then I drop them into Auria for mixing with their cool-ass effects and master. Then, back into Audioshare & Dropbox for safekeeping.
It's still a pain in the @$$, but not even in the same universe as my Roland 880EX, so I try to not complain too loud.
I think I'm already doing this, perhaps on a more modest scale than what you envisage though. If I do some initial composition in Gadget I always finish everything in Auria, and I also do the final arrangement in Auria - in Gadget I just create small 4 or 8 bar sections which are expanded in Auria.
Then I will often add additional effects in Auria, for example I might add Saturn on a Berlin riff to give it even more of a guitar flavour, and definitely add Timeless etc without a second thought.
My entry for the October SOTMC is very much a Gadget/Auria hybrid, with the Berlin riff at 4.20 juiced up in Saturn.
A lot of the additional synth sounds (like all the bass pads and the little riff after the "nowhere" at the end of the chorus) are played live with iSem. It seemed easier to play those bits live rather than try and sequence them in Auria.
This is the solution (of course) to my/our wishing for audio in Gadget, BUT it amazes me (about myself) how stuck in my ways or perception I am, workflow-wise. As ever, hearing other folks thoughts is very useful, not even so much for the technical approach, but the validation that the workarounds work. Thanks.
I found an easier way to progress beyond Gadget, just 3 steps:
Then hopefully Mrs Necessity will let her child out to come and help you.
Awesome !!!
This has been my approach with a few apps, Gadget included (no offense to the lovers of Gadget). I'm so easily distracted by all the different ways of working...
Yeah, sometimes the simple strategies can pay the biggest dividends. Changing or limiting your tools (and distractions) can be pretty effective in helping you focus on what you want to say.
Kind of sideways to Matt's OP - I once created a pair of monster sequences using (c'mon, memory): Alchemy, Sunrizer, iSem, Galileo and Animoog, using MidiSequencer, and recorded it all into Auria for looping/later use.
Like @richardyot, my go to workflow is sequence in Gadget and export to Auria, although I'm liable to sequence the entire song in Gadget rather than stack loops (which sounds more efficient), if I don't watch myself
After a year of regular use, I'm still amazed with all the things you can do in Auria (as is) and a handful of plugins. How you get your audio/sequences INTO the bloody thing is, of course, the trick.
Since gadget export midi files too, I personnaly stick with it (amazing workflow) and wait for Auria pro and twin2, soon to be released (finger crossed) for the killer patches
Limiting tools (distractions) is exactly the remedy to a chronic problem of mine. It was the same when I found out how many amazing free vsts there are for PC- (hundreds of plugs!) My problem is in part that I'm just a fan of cool shit. Cool software in this case. I only use a few things, but Gadget etal are just so very cool...(what they can do, how they do it)
@Matt_Fletcher_2000 is onto a solid method as others note, and I've been searching for method too. Oddly the one I'm using now is a variation on another @Matt_Fletcher_2000 schema, involving AB, Genome and a DAW, and sets of standalone synths, drum boxes, and samplers. The iPad as meta-daw, or meta Gadget. This way works for me because the grid clip launch in Genome makes more sense to me than Gadgets
@Matt_Fletcher_2000, nothing sounds like Animoog better than Animoog itself.. If you are importing individual Gadget tracks into Auria then you could do this with Animoog too by using Gennome to sequence Animoog (set to same tempo as your Gadget track) and recording Animoogs audio with its own recorder, then importing to Auria.
Hope that helps out
Ah, but there's the rub. Unless it's the first track, despite the speed correlation, you won't really know how it sits in/with the rest of the track....
Fully understand and concur. Gadget is a great tool but I found it too much of a comfy chair in the long run. Learned a lot from the six months or more it was my "go to" songwriting tool but felt I needed to move on and learn about things that you don't get to experience within the safety of Gadget.
I hear you. Perhaps not quite there myself. Would be a fun/instructive video for the rest of us 'what I learned after I got out of the comfy chair etc'.
The only work around here is to manually trigger Gennome along side Gadget (or Auria).. Thanks for pointing that out sir..
There is another way..by using Cubasis you can import each Gadget track and use Midi for Animoog..You can then use Audiobus to record also.. And then export each track to Auria for mixing (and the use of those nice fx).
I'm so glad I don't feel this dilemma
I've had gadget since November last year and still not tried all the presets or even fully investigated all the gadgets and automation potential
But I do agree that animoog is in a class of its own and would love to include that and even nave in gadget compositions, but like Matt said, it's a big hassle using many apps together.
I can't help but think that if you have a nice mix down of a gadget track, just export that as one track into Auria or cubasis then open another track and record the other synths as needed on top of that..
Why export individual stems when a fully completed decent mix down of multiple gadget tracks can be exported as one decent track?
Yep. Thanks both. I started doing the Genome > Animoog thing recently (and also BeatStep to Animoog actually). But the problem is always getting that Animoog track to really sit nicely in the rest of the composition / arrangement. It's very difficult to arrange and re arrange on the fly.
It is kind of possible by having, say, Genome trigger Gadget and also sequence Animoog. But there's 3 apps you've got to set up and Genome doesn't have a great song mode that (I've figure out anyway) so you really have to play it with the clips live. It's a good workflow for a semi live jam. But I'm struggling beyond that.
Cubasis would work in leui of Genome. But I gave up on Cubasis a while back.
And you still have the problem of how to start Animoog and Gadget in sync when working on the middle of the track. Not easy. Plus it's 3 or more apps to deal with.
Next track I do I'm going back to Gadget for the whole arrangement, pushing it as hard as possible and then going to work properly with plugins in Auria. I'm hoping my new iPad Air 2 will cope better too.
By the way, I really got Wolfsburg sounding pretty damn similar to a beefy Animoog patch just now. Might make a quick soundcloud to share.
Here we are:
Separated by a drum hit.
Guess which is A and which is B... Probably not that hard - but I think Gadget isn't doing too badly and that's untreated Gadget using its crappy reverb...
Not the same.
But you get the idea. Bit of work in Auria with some distortion and filtering afterwards and I think it's a goer as a replacement in exchange for much easier workflow.
I would say A is animoog and is B Wolfsburg ?
Anyone else ?
I had it the other way around, Wolfsburg first then animoog. Thought the animoog patches sounded much richer.
I think A for Animoog
My stuffs probably a bit too 'fluid' to add much to the discussion - I generally record in live to Auria via whatever takes my fancy, and jam over the too. When I feel the need for a bit more structure though I will designate 'blocks' in Auria, Gadget rhythms for example, repeat and use to build a track. Not very often though. Probably never.
A for Animoog.. Why did you give up on Cubasis?
So I hope that was fun.
It was in fact A for animoog. Listening again on headphones I think it has that familiar Animoog metallic twang. And the delay is nicer.
The Gadget patch also has a bit too much filter fizz (technical term) on it actually - but I'm sure I could sort that.
But... for me it was a useful experiment because it showed me I can get quite a lot of nice Animoogesque (another technical term) stuff out of Wolfsburg and I reckon with a bit more tweaking and a bit of Saturn in Auria I could get it sounding pretty decent. And of course get all the benefits of it being internal to my Gadget track.
@runcell I gave up on Cubasis primarily because I don't know my scales and you can restrict the piano roll to just notes in a scale like you can in Gadget or Genome. Plus I found the piano roll and timeline and general UI to be pretty fraustrating and 2 years ago IAA or Audiobus was pretty bugging. And copy/pasting 4 bar audio files around is not much fun, I find.
Gadget Animoog Animoog Gadget
But no real idea and only on careful inspection and so forth. Interesting experiment. I guess one would have to ask about playability as well blah blah etc.
Yup this is what I do but send the midi to reason or ableton on the mac, send it back to iPad synths through iconnect and record the audio live
Cool
I'd say Wolfsburg is pretty much up there with the big boy synths u know..I'm using it a lot, it can do a wide range of pads , basses etc...love it to death
Matt, it's a shame. As in my opinion, Cubasis is the most reliable tool at bringing together all these great synths (Gadget included) etc. midi and audio. I'm not trying to put you off Gadget at all, and I'm not a Steinberg salesman either, but Cubasis will enable you to expand on your Gadget tracks by using all these other sound generating devices that may have accumulated (some dust) on your pad.
Note - 3 out of 3 guessed right.. Actually I didn't guess, I could hear the movement of the morphing timbres in the real ani sound..thanks Matt
Sweet
(Animoog is so cool, no?)
I like Cubasis too, very much.