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Comments
Matt, I actually don't feel right with Gagdet method. Up to now, the only app satisfied me is 'Modstep' way of fill in notes, quantize, copy and move notes. I use plenty of sequncers and arps apps to have this prejudice saying!
I personally don't play within Gadget is because of it's way of inputing notes and velocity. I should frankly say I dislike a lot. Too slow and too 'try and error' way for someone who can not fill notes with determined keys to fill in. Modestep allows me a quick guess and erase with fast smooth responses. Modstep is the only app has this advantage. It must had been through lots of research to give this feeling.
OK, fair enough. We're all going to have our personal preferences about our absolute favourite piano roll.
I'm not saying 'copy Gadget exactly'... just that Gadget, Auxy, Modstep developers have all really thought about the best way to use touch with piano rolls. And generally - i'd say people are very positive about the ease of editing notes in their piano rolls.
Generally i'd say what they have done is taken away lots of buttons for different functions (which need to be switched on and off) and thought hard about how you can communicate lots of different functions just by different touch gestures on the roll. They are also extremely well calibrated (which must have taken lots of testing and tweaking). I'd actually agree that Gadget is less well calibrated than Auxy and Modstep. By that I mean that I find myself having to have 2 or 3 goes at lengthening a note in Gadget sometimes (instead of moving it), whereas in Auxy gets this right almost 100% of the time.
It's not easy getting this stuff right - and for what is effectively release 1 (in terms of midi editing) Auria Pro is pretty decent in terms of note editing - you can get stuff in there and tweak stuff. So total respect to Rim... since so much extra has been added to AP as well.
I'm just greedy and i'm pushing for it to be up there with the 'best experiences' in piano rolls (across both desktop and iOS). I think this is important since this is where musicians actually write music - so it ought to be as fluid as possible. And I believe that when an app gets it right - it's more natural to be doing this via touch on a tablet than it is via a mouse at a desktop.
As I've said earlier - if AP is to be the absolute no brainer as the total iOS Daw I think it needs some usability and debugging attention on 1) Automation 2) Midi editing (in that order of priority). Personally i'd prefer that before any additional functionality being worked on (e.g. extra improvements to Lyra etc.). But others may see this differently.
I couldn't get volume automation to work well with a iM1 project I ported from MTS (using virtual midi for 6 tracks of iM1), so it's back to MTS with that project for now...
Thanks, these are all good suggestions.
In draw mode, Auria already does most of what you're asking: scrolling is disabled (although if you use two fingers, you can scroll). To lengthen a note when in draw mode, you just tap the end and move. To move a note, you just move it. To delete, you just tap on it. To add a new note, you just tap where you want a new note. To me, this is pretty intuitive. I think the confusion comes because there are two ways to do it. If you don't have draw mode engaged, you can still do all the functions, but they are more difficult to accomplish. The reason I decided to keep the second method was to accommodate users of the original Auria who were used to the way Auria edits audio.
With velocity editing, when you click on a note it does tell you the current velocity. This is shown in the info box above. Having little numbers next to each note might be a good idea, but I'd have to see how small I could make those numbers. I don't like the idea of another section below, as I find this is a waste of screen space. I like things to be more intuitive, and that's why I chose the color method.
Rim
@Matt_Fletcher_2000 ,
Actually I like this continuing drawing mode on the photo of Auria Pro.
But, I really don't understand why it is only for the same row. If that can be used at free will, the quantized notes melody can be further improved with other editing tools. Modstep has so many buttons closed to each other for good editing in this regards!
Note: by quick 2 time finger press, the 3 dots shows up! Many don't know about this tiny thing.
During beta, the "repeat draw" mode was free to paint notes anywhere, but many beta testers thought this was not a good idea, so I limited the painting to only one note at a time.
Rim
@WaveMachineLabs
Thanks - and apologies if i've got this wrong...
Maybe i'm thinking about selecting a couple of notes (rather than just one) - in that case I can't see that it would tell you their current values (since they may have different values to each other - but I seem to remember even if they do have the same value - it doesn't show you that value).
Anyway - sorry if i'm confusing things...
Oh no! Any improvement for note drawing is based upon free will that can be quantized and manipulated further. It must be not fiddly, it must be without any hesitation. In continuing drawing mode, one track can be cut into segmented window clip which also can be simultaneously connected. This is how Modstep can take lengthening notes to sound great, up to 256 notes.
If you select more than one note (or draw a highlight around several notes), there's no velocity info displayed (it can't know which note to display info about), so maybe that's what you were seeing.
Yep, that'll be it. That's a slight problem (IMO). The advantage of velocity bars appearing below (or within the notes) - which most apps opt for - is you can easily see all the relative velocities for comparison - and you can often grab a bunch of notes (a chord or a phrase) and make it a bit stronger than the rest of the section - for emphasis.... pretty quickly and easily. I know AP uses colour for this (but it's pretty tough to determine for me). Using simply lighter and darker (rather than blue to red) might help I guess.
Anyway - i'm going to stop nit picking now
. Promise... It's great that it all works and you can write midi in Auria. That's a really great thing....
I'd just finally say, if you haven't already, have a good play with Gadget/Modstep/Auxy and you'll just feel what I mean - I think...
Or maybe it's just me
...
@WaveMachineLabs - and happy Christmas/New Year - and please have a well earned and long break! What a great year for WaveMachineLabs - definitely making iOS app history!
Nit-picking is good! I appreciate the feedback, as this helps me fine tune the functionality.
In Auria, you can easily grab a bunch of notes and changes their velocities - just draw a highlight around a bunch of notes and move the velocities up or down. I thought colors would be more intuitive than an entire section below the notes, but I can see how it might be difficult to tell colors apart if they are very close together.
Rim
Thanks Matt, you too!
Rim
@Matt_Fletcher_2000 actually I would argue that Gadget does have two different modes, it's just that it defaults to the "draw" mode. But to make multi-selections you have to click the marquee icon to enter "selection" mode. So it's not that different to Auria, it's just that Auria defaults to "selection" mode rather than "draw" mode. Maybe the default should be changed?
I was thinking the same thing actually. Maybe things could be improved if I made draw mode the default mode when you entered piano roll.
Might be an idea. I would second Matt's comments about the feel of piano roll editing, it does somehow feel more fluid in Gadget, but it's difficult to exactly quantify how. When I have some more time I will try and make a more thorough comparison and see if I can explain it better.
I only like iDS-10 and Modstep method for input notes.
Thanks. I want to make Auria's piano roll as easy to use and intuitive as possible, so any suggestions on how to improve things are really appreciated..
Rim
i mentioned that in the beta forum already but the biggest"issue"i still have with the piano roll is that it opens at the same zoom level like the edit screen (instead of just open the selected region and expand it (automatically zoom in) over the whole screen).This is different to any other DAW and before i actually can edit certain notes,i have to find the right zoom level and notes i want to edit (because AP shows me ALL midi notes on the track..,or a lot of blank space...)And when i leave the piano roll again,i have to find the right zoom level for the edit screen again (as it just keeps the zoom level from the piano roll now).To me this is annoying and i can't imagine many situations where you want the same zoom level in piano roll and edit screen.But maybe that's just me...
IF a section beneath the piano roll with automation data is added, please make it a pop up, or a window you can drag up and down to show more or less of it (I think Cubasis does this, and Gadget something similar). As less screen real-estate for the actual piano roll would be a very bad idea here.
Edit: I do agree that being able to see velocities for all notes, and be able to change velocity per note in a more traditional DAW style, would be a good thing. But again, you need to be able to hide that info so as to not make the piano roll window smaller. Hope that made sense
@ChrisG,
Master, after long hours playing Modstep, I sincerely tell you all my thoughts.
Auria is the best DAW! Modstep is fun and touchable; however, I sincerely feel to make right music, no matter how the tech is, Auria is very stable in terms of all aspects, especially IAA and midi connections. It takes music to beautiful side with plugins. It has letting me to hear what a quality sound there. Those stabilities with sophistications are hard to achieve. Inputing notes is essential, but when talk to what a DAW is needed, it is not 100% necessary hand ticking all the notes to it as we each want it to be! I doubt the way we work on a song by tiny and tiny bits of labor. So, StepPolyArp can help, FugueM can help, and Kirnu can help, much more than expected, Genome is definitely stable one for Auria. So we will continue to expect a better ways to improve touch screen knowhow on Auria. We should not view it like the Gadget because it is too complex to have hundreds if not a thousand modulation automation and midi learn to work as if it is just a few lines, to make it to perfection like everyone's holy grail.
Rim is best, so kind to listen and quietly accepted the challenges. Anyway, after playing Modstep, I have known it isn't that enjoyable for apps connections, not to say let it out loud for a song. It is just jamming device. A DAW like Auria is a real deal for every musicians with quality standard.
Cheers, everyone!
This is it, right here.
And perhaps the art of UI design. Or the luck.
I quote Richard's post because it sums up the issue, but Matt's previous 2 previous longer posts are absolutely on point.
I can understand you (Rim) enumerating the list of 'but we do that already' in terms of specific capabilities (highlighting, select, move, copy etc), but the difference between functionality and intuitiveness is the difference between 'It can be done' and 'I want to do it'.
I accept there's personal taste here (dear @Kaikoo and his cultlike certainty about all things Modstep
), but the bigger picture is the feel. Gadget and Auxy and GB, just for obvious examples (I haven't used Modstep yet Kaiko 
) are all far more comfortable to use. I stll feel Gadget could be better, but since working on Midi tracks in AP I now value Gadget more than I did.
You will have seen (maybe) many long threads about Auxy and what the developers are doing philosophically/commercially etc etc., but I believe that this passion and interest wouldn't be half of what it is if the interface wasn't so remarkably smooth and easy. Again, this is not a matter of what it does, but how it does it, how it feels, how it gets the hell out of the way, how you don't spend time in nervous fear of clicking the wrong thing in the wrong way etc etc...
It should be said that AP has a HUGE advantage; the program and integration of the Midi tracks now into the greater whole. AND it is after all the first release and with your gifted attention I have no doubt that in 12 months much of this discussion will seem dated and old hat. I hope and trust
It should also be said that I am not even really talking or touching (sic) on Automation, but simply note input/tune writing/editing.
Please don't let us drive you mad on this, nor believe that we are in any way ungrateful or churlish for the great work you have already done. We are like an unofficial small group of disparate weirdos who believe in the opportunity that AP represents; as it is and as it could be.
Well said, everyone. Challenge accepted!
Rim
@Kaikoo
Yep, we are still threading on relatively new grounds with our tablets (threading on thin ice for developers I guess;). And I agree it must be very, very complicated to get a user interface that everyone is happy with.
I personally don't use piano rolls to add notes by drawing them in (only on occasion where needed). I use it to edit my recorded midi. Move notes, shift/transpose notes, change length and whatnot, and of course automation edits (like editing the velocity for this and that note).
Wow Rim...Just got the email you sent out. I'm gonna stay quiet since @Sebastian will bitchslap me into to tomorrow if I speak my mind on this lol.
Just hoping some people get a reality check after reading it. When I say people I mean idi...OOPS! Yep, idioops!
Wuuut? That's a huge update to have made so quickly.. I have the app..Thanks again, Rim!!!
@WaveMachineLabs said:
I've not gone 'Auria Pro' yet, maybe next year, Santa was not nice to me this year
But the solution to this would be to use 'relative' volume change if more than one note is selected?
This was a feature I used a lot in my early Cubase days to lift the velocities of the played notes without loosing the playing dynamics or used it to flatten the velocity of played notes.
Yes, that's a great idea - added to my list.
Rim
Auria Pro is going to be my first New Years present to myself
Have spent a good bit of time this week noodling with AP, which is awesome! Couple of issues with regard to MIDI entering and editing. Was mixing a 12-channel live Christmas Eve recording, which let me exercise a bunch of features. The kick drum mic was weak in the mix, so I decided to try to find the transients, convert audio to MIDI, and synthesize a new kick track using one of the Lyra kits. Some observations:
1) Was perplexed when Create Transients didn't seem to do anything for me. Realized after some reading that I needed to actually turn on the Transient display for the track! Perhaps they should automatically turn on for a track when new transients are created?
2) Had a bit of trouble with the Paste as MIDI functionality, which is lightly documented. Found that I had to select the destination track in edit view (so that the highlight was around the track control box on left of screen), and the data was inserted at the current insertion point, NOT time aligned with the initial transients. Had to manually align transients with MIDI notes
3)Paste as MIDI always pastes to a fixed midi note, which is set on the MIDI Settings page. This seems like an awkward place to set this. Any way the current note could be displayed next to Paste as MIDI in the process menu? Any way to have the selector be closer to the action?
4) BUG? With regard to the Paste as MIDI note, the pop-up selector lets me pick a note, but it always reverts to E3 as soon as I let go of the selector, so I can't actually pick a different note.
5) Timing of pasted notes is very strange (and not in a good way). If I listen to the original kick track, the timing is very consistent. If I align the found transients with the MIDI notes, they align perfectly. If I play the midi notes, the timing is very wrong, particularly with double kicks. Sound like the second note is always off.
Rim, I can send a project if that helps.
Overall, I'm having a great time with Auria Pro. Have been a longtime Auria user and think it is a great piece of software and is central to my music production. Has made this holiday week fun.
John in Boston