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Comments
That would be to imply that in that state there is no causal precedence.
yeah that’s exactly the case
time (or to be exact timespace) started exist only with big bang, there was not such thing as “space” and “time” “before” big bang .. hard to wrap mind abou this concept but that is.. at least if big bang theory is correct, of course 
“before big bang” is same as dividion by zero - it’s simply not defined 
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The two things I have the most difficulty with in science are:
The Big Bang theory.
Boiled right down, this relies on something coming from nothing. Nowhere else in science can this be demonstrated, on any scale. It’s essentially ‘God’ made the universe, without giving credit.
Perpetual Motion
Scientists maintain that this is not possible. But atoms are made up of a nucleus with orbiting electrons. Perpetually in motion.
Da f—k outta here... This forum is awesome.. always has been
Great forum, where you can learn things, have heated debates and talk straight to devs!
Who wants more?
Hehe, Terrence McKenna refers to it as something like ‘the one free miracle’ that science demands.
I tend to go back and forth between photography and music. They're branches off the same trunk. Photography's light and shadow are similar to music's scale and rhythm. Both are tonal in a way that can be deeply visceral. Both can explore patterns and repetitions in a way that can be intellectually satisfying.
And both are hobbies, because I haven't figured out how to make money from either one.
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In other words, the theory doesn’t stand up to the kind of scrutiny all other theories must pass.
Miracle and science cannot co-exist.
But... but, but...
wow, nice!
Very nice. This forum, and the photos previously posted.
I was the person who originally started this thread. It was quite a long time ago so my memory differs significantly from those of @Sebastian with respect to people posting tracks in the general forum rather than in the creations section which I really could care less about one way or another.
My motivation for posting was my perception that the Audiobus forum had gotten significantly larger and consequently there’s bound to be more disagreements when that happens. It was my hope that forum members would be able talk about the issues if they were concerned about it.
I did find myself becoming too upset over some discussions on the forum which I can’t even recall but realized my emotional responses had nothing to do with the posts themselves but were my own issues which existed long before iOS or Audiobus existed. The moderators did graciously agree to remove my account from the forum and invited me to return later on if I wished to.
I took a break from the forum in order to reflect upon how to interact with other forum members in order to minimize any negative impact upon myself or others. I defer to other people as to how effective my approach to this has been. I hold no ill will towards past or current members.
I will admit to being at times overly dogmatic which wasn’t warranted, necessary, or consistent with trying to be a reasonable person which I aspire to be.
More than fair and in many ways estimable.
Guys you are actually wrong .. "something from nothig" was actually scientifically proved
Quantum fluctuations - Cassimir effect ;-)
In essence, very simple way explained - based on Heisenberg uncertainbility principe (check wiki for details) , even vacuum isn't empty - istead of it is literally boiling and full of virtual particles which pops out of nothing and then again dissapears to nothing ..
Sounds like insane construct just created by phycists and matematicias .. BUT .. problem is it was experimentaly proved that it is reality
this theory implies that if you take 2 plates, put them in vacuum and enought close to each one, you should be able to measure force which pushes those two plates together .. This is becasue between plates can appear just virtual particles with wavelength equal or smaller than space between plates, but outside plates can appear virtual particles of all possible wavelengths .. it means - more virtual particles outside, less inside --> outside particles are pushing plates together
this, so called 'Casimir effect' and it was reproduced experimentally in labs - which proved that quantum fluctuations are real thing.
Which literally means, "something from nothing' is most comming thing which happens in our universe :-))
If i good remember, scientis were already able succesfully "extract" real photon from those virtual appearing/disappearing particles, so they lierally created photon out of nothing
One of theories is that also our universe was created from such quantum fluctuation, which simply inflated to cosmologic scale
No god needed / involved, just pure beauty of physics ..
@Zen210507
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Ok.. first of all .. electrons are not really "orbiting" nucleus (in the way like planets are orbiting sun).. in fact they are "spreaded" around nucleus based on their wavefunction .. and they are not "perpetually" in motion - they are constantly receiving energy by absorbing energy for example of photons (and emiting photons) .. atoms are not closed systems, they are in HIGH interaction with stuff around them
Electrons (and neutrons and protons) are "moving" (or more accurate to say changing their energy states, position probabilities, and other properties) based on interactions many kinds of other particles around ..
So no perpetual "motion" .. atomic world is LOT more complicated :-)
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So it would seem. Thanks for the post!
Not looking to argue, not clever enough.
Just trying to understand this fascinating idea.
Is the experimental proof of which you speak a theory, or something that has actually been done?
I’m thinking that if something from nothing has been accomplished - for real, not just as a mathematical principle under postulated circumstances which have not actually been achieved - then surely this is zero point energy?
If energy can be produced from nothing, why has this wonderful breakthrough not become common knowledge?
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Really good photos, sir. A perfect example of how dramatic b&w can be.
No, I am right. Terrence McKenna did call it the ‘one free miracle’. I heard him say it many times. Lol
Observer create thy self...
Wake up, people! THE EARTH IS FLAT!
experiment is experiment :-) they simply in lab reproduced this effect, predicted by Quantum theory .. that's how science works - Scientiss bring some theory which describes existing phenomena, and predicting some other, not observed till yet - and they tiey are trying in lab (or by observing nature) found that previously unseen things predicted by theory
Casimir effect was approved by experiment in lab, so it is very solid proof of existence of quantum fluctuations (virtual particles appearing from nothing :-))
It's not so easy but of course there is potential for future .. we are technologically still at beginning, the age of miracles is just comming
Regarding zero point energy - it's not so easy like some unscientific bullshit newage morons try to sell
If you want really a bit understand this topic, check this video 
Actually i pretty much dislike this newage crap which his trying to twist real science to some pseudoscience bullshit .. Science itself is fascinating enough, not needed to mix it with mystical metaphysical nonsense
)
Okay, thanks for the link. Will view in due course. Had family bereavement last night, so otherwise occupied at the moment.
A> @dendy said:
Oh yah, Terrence was a pseudo science orator for sure. He was an endless crazy idea generator with largely scifi themes and the next logical step for me after watching Blade Runner as a teen and getting into surrealism and abstract art. Sure, he may at times have been surrounded by doe eyed guru fetishists but whatever, that was the neccessary money maker of the time for what he did. Modern hardcore science fans (and I don’t mean scientists) can be just as lame. No getting around humans being goofs. The followers are the neccessary evil that can enable the person to do their work but also screw the intention of the whole thing up.
Anyway, science is fascinating for sure but as I am not actively engaged in the field myself I can’t get too worked up about supporting other people’s theories or conclusions as fact. If someone is not doing the science themselves then they have not earned their smug Neil deGrasse Tyson smirk... as good as it may feel to adopt that posture as a fan.
At times I dig through science books written for my level by people who seem respected In their field but for me to proclaim any of it as fact would be more about faith and trust than actual science on my part, which would be spitting in the face of science itself.
An interesting sweeping statement that could be applied to new age science, god particle
but of course I have a sense of humour and also do believe the universe metaphysical in concept.
If you're referening to higgs boson, the "god particle" and all stories around ti was from 90% createad by media (with high level of assistence of newage bullshiters
)) ..
actually pure scientific view of higgs boson have nothing to to with god and event statement that "higgs boson gives mass to all particles" and "without higss all particless will be massless" is actually, very politely speaking, not accurate, or very close to nonsense
) There is lot particles which have mass even without higgs mechanism (quarks for example) ..
And at the end - higgs boson itself is giving nothing to any particle, existence higgs is just proof of existence of higgs field, and some particles like electron take mass by interacting with higgs field, but not with higgs boson itself ..
In this case the formula Media Hype + Public = Funding, but academia went along with B$.
yeah, exactly
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