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iOS music making vs desktop
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I read a lot of complaints about the iOS platform for music making, but due to band requests, for the past two weeks I've been trying to setup a live laptop Logic/MIDI rig via mixers, amps, MIDI keyboards, controllers etc.
And it's been a pigging nightmare. Finding the right cables, up to date drivers, MIDI settings, blah blah blah only to discover half my hardware and software no longer works.
A nightmare. An expensive nightmare.
Back to the iPad then...
Comments
My desktop days are a long distant memory. Although I've still been tempted now and again, I struggle to forget the hours spent sorting problems.
With my admittedly only 1 year experience with my iPad, I have had so few scream inducing problems, I just can't imagine being without iOS as at least a big part of my musical picture.
Long live iOS music making and maybe a laptop one day in my future - never say never again right?
After moving to iOS i realize that desktop is years behind in user interfaces. The touch screen really does allow for more cool shit and is a lot more fun to use in my opinion.
Depends on what you're trying to do. A desktop studio that's stable and functioning for production is one thing, and a live rig another.
I've managed to get a nice clean signal from the iPad into separate left/right stereo channels in the mixer. I was hoping to get Mainstage to play Logic Alchemy synths etc. and map my MIDI Edirol keyboard and Maschine pad to them, but neither wants to work with the Mac (though both work perfectly on my PC). I can't get up to date drivers for the Edirol. I haven't looked for the Maschine ones yet, but after a week of solid faffing about I'm on the verge of giving up, and the Mac MIDI controller setup tool looks like it was designed in 1972.
Just a massive pain in the Henry.
Agreed, more expensive and not really as efortless as some people make it out to be. Yes, Of course you can do more, for now, but tools always get better on new platforms even if it takes a while. iOS even as it is right now does some things so much better than desktop applications, immediacy comes to mind, just open the app an start playing, even a MIDI controller it's not a necessity, direct interaction with software with no mouse and no trackpad, even the MIDI on iOS, it becomes a trouble on complicated setups of course, but when you're using just one app it's really good just to connect a keyboard and no having to worrie about drivers, MIDI/ audio settings, etc.
So it's not perfect but it's getting better. Desktop it's a mature platform so of course things are worked out already and even then you still run into trouble more often than expected.
A good friend of mine runs sound for a couple of bands; we were talking about iOS and how much you can do and how great and powerful PC/Mac software is and he reminded me that in a live setting, you'd better carry a backup PC, or second (or 3rd) iPad or whatever, "because software will fail more often in a live setting than in the studio."
He also recommends using a sound generating keyboard as MIDI controller for a real and true backup system. Good advice, I think.
Good advice, but could be costly. My Edirol seems to be obsolete as Roland have abandoned it, so could happen to other devices. At least it was under £200.
All sensible stuff. The Casio PX5s is a cool gigging solution to use with an iPad. You can use 3 of the 4 midi out zones with the iPad and keep one for the built in sounds then if an iPad sound goes use a slider to bring in the keyboard sound straight away. It has battery backup power too.
You can also use the stagesets as presets. Each one set up to move to a different set of midi channels which you can set your chosen apps to. You can use this to change the sounds being used without changing too many app midi settings live. Works well if you don't need too many apps open for a set as the synth itself will do all your bread and butter sounds well enough.
It's easy advice for me as I have two workstation keyboards and a synth -- all with midi. I came to iOS from hardware, but more recently I've been exploring desktop music software and found that it is a big pain in the backside to get things working. On iOS, I hook up everything through an iStudio interface and stuff simply works. On Windows it took a lot of effort, but I did finally get there.
Either way you go, good luck and have fun playing live!
I couldn't see doing it with just iPad or just desktop now. Spreading it across the two is the most flexible and rewarding to me.
Even yesterday while working on a Gadget track I exported the midi file to a PC DAW (while piping the midi to Gadget) then in the DAW edited, rearranged and rerecorded it right back to Gadget, still using the Gadget sounds the whole time. Gadget was best for the quick sketch but the PC DAW kicked butt for high level rearrangement and doubling/halving/transposing of sequences. I found it quite trippy to listen back to it in Gadget and hear what was thirty minutes of PC DAW editing, which would have been hours in Gadget. That being said the initial sketch in Gadget came much quicker then it would have in the PC DAW. (Damn, I hope there is a midi out Gadget at some point)
Thanks! It's nice to hear the iPad stuff booming out of my Orange bass combo, I'm just trying to get Logic and (when I get it) Mainstage working with the two controllers. Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and buy a new one, though my little Microkey Korg is working fine.
Once I've done all that the next step is to get the Mac and iPad communicating with each other, probably using musicIO.
It's why I got an iPad, and it's why I keep my desktop. IPad is fantastic for quickly making music, and the touch surface makes a great expressive instrument. For post-production, the desktop is far superior for me. That's where I get more stability, a bigger screen, more RAM, integrated workspace, a mouse, keyboard shortcuts, regular file system... I don't see iOS replacing this for me in the near future.
To each their own. My desktop set-up is relatively simple and unchanging. If the iPad is better and cheaper as a live rig, then what's stopping anyone from going with it? The idea of iOS is mobile, isn't it?
For me iPad so far is fabulous for initial musical inspiration...but it still needs to pass the baton to Desktop to finish purposeful work.
I hope the coming fall iOS updates make this less and less necessary.
I've come to a point where I think using both is the best but I've actually swung back more toward the desktop side after trying really hard to go all iOS ever since Audiobus came out.
It's so nice to open a song in Logic or Numerology and have everything be right where I left it and not have to open a bunch of apps and configure everything.
I personally think touch is a bit overrated as I NEVER use a touch screen keyboard (except for Thumbjam!) and while I had visions of creating music "on the go" that just never panned out for me. I still follow iOS music and this forum is one I visit every day but I'm thankful I'm no longer an appaholic and feel compelled to buy the latest and greatest. I actually regret spending so much money over the last few years on iOS apps because that money could've gone into augmenting my computer music. Oh well, you live and learn.
This is probably because I'm a guitar/keyboard player with years of experience playing gigs, in pit orchestras etc and with using computer DAWs. Most iOS apps feel so limited in scope especially regarding tempo and time signature changes.
I'm still rooting for iOS music and follow it closely but I'm much happier using the computer more and augmenting it with my iPad and iPhone used both as MIDI controllers and sound modules. I'm sure I'll swing back to iOS again at some point especially as devices get more powerful and have more RAM and there are some really cool apps out there like Thumbjam, ChordPolyPad and others I can't think of at the moment which I still use all the time. YMMV
Peace
Maybe some of you had issues with crappy windows platforms in the past, but I have been with Mac laptops for a decade and they are awesome. Almost everything work almost immediately, the worst I had to do is 1 reinstall of my new audio interface for it to be perfect.
I certainly can not say the same about iOS, with all the crappy workarounds, different implementation of different standards in different apps, sequencers crashing etc.
I am certain things will get better, but in some ways I think (gasp) windows might be doing it right with the surface pros. I mean why can't we get ableton live and push to run on a OS X version of a iPad Pro?
Anyways, I am quite happy screwing around on the couch coming up with ideas on my iPad, then getting those ideas either into my samplers or into my DAW.
As I commented on another thread earlier, I'm bypassing desktop. I'm doing hardware and iOS. The new Yamaha mx49 BK combined w Music mobile sequencer. It has an audio interface built into the keyboard. From there I have Auria Pro, Gadget, Modstep.. It's all just gravy.. I have an insane amount of options.. For me, the MX provides a much needed "Comma d-Central" for my 12.9 iPad Pro.
If I can't create with those two, I should just quit music.
I'm in a happy place at the moment using my ipad with my laptop, I've stopped using any outboard at the moment, even my maschine controller doesn't see any action. Finding the linkup between logic and apps works great, mainly using a lightning cable, enabling ipad audio in, both in audio/midi app and logic. Use the ipad as a sample source, controller, etc, still like recording most stuff in live, it's much easier now.
If I want to use my ipad as a module or fx return I'll use studiomux or music io, and print stuff in logic, the really nice thing I'm finding is the different stuff for the platforms, many things on ios I can't get for osx and vise versa. Still love the playability aspect of touchscreens and all the music theory apps for getting everything in key, find the combination of the two the right place for me at the mo.
I miss the sound of my hardware synths but don't miss the spaghetti junction wires everywhere and squeezing into tight spaces to unplug stuff, feeling for midi and audio ports, trying to remain calm.
I agree with everything. To each their own and of course, on desktop you can do a lot more as its mature platform everything has been optimized and worked out at this point. iOS its a new platform and it can't do as much but tools always get better and new ways of working emerge,as long as the platform its successful, and I don't see iOS going away any time soon, this will come with time.
(Well... To be honest I would hate using a mouse or a trackpad on iOS, the whole screen its the trackpad and you have either ten fingers or maybe a stylus if you want, as the mouse)
It's what I'm used to, and what I've practiced doing. I never use a trackpad, even on my laptop. I can get around much faster and more precisely with a mouse, and the first thing I do with any program is learn the keyboard shortcuts. Once it becomes routine, it speeds up production dramatically. Many iOS apps have very fiddly knobs and imprecise adjustments. There are also advantages to having a larger screen (many people even use multiple screens,) and zooming and scrolling around the smaller screen can get tedious. And it's often not smooth or fast enough. So not until tablets get much larger will they compete with a desktop system in that regard.
I think you're right that things will improve, and iOS needs some real improvements, especially in file management. I think the whole App Store system and pricing will need to change in order to draw the best that developers can offer. It's still early. We'll see if the iOS platform emerges as the standard for pro music production on a touch-screen mobile device.
This is what I'm trying to achieve - but with flexible output options to a mixing desk/PA and Maschine/keyboard MIDI controllers for taking the whole thing on the road.
I've sussed the outputs, but need to work on the controllers and then the Mac/iPad integration.
I think part if my problem is that I'm trying to use older gear and the Mac doesn't like it. I can see some controller shopping on the horizon...
iPad is my jamming tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It's fun and that's it.
I couldn't imagine doing whole productions without my desktop setup ( think of complex drum editing, arrangement, proper mixdown etc. ).
If I want to import some samples in the desktop drum sampler of my choice it's done in a few seconds. Moving files in iOS is still a really really big pain, takes ages and can kill a creative workflow ( if you're a sample-based producer like I am ).
I can't say I've found setting up an older MIDI controller on the Mac any easier than routing apps on my iPad. Have you seen the MIDI setup section in OSX? There are parts of the Mac operating system that look like they were designed in the 70's and not touched since, once you get behind the new shiny stuff.
And it doesn't 'just work' if you're not using a new device, it shrugs it's shoulders and doesn't.
As for the synths in Logic....apart from Alchemy they're light years behind apps on my iPad by Moog and Korg.
Don't know about your master keyboard, but NI Maschine should work fine, check at the NI website for different versions, for your Mac OS, if possible check the forums in advance for possible incomparabilty, also check it's firmware version. You should then be able to map out the macro controls in Logic-Mainstage, to the encoders on the controller.
Oh, and Sculpture – that's a good 'un, too.
Yeah that one's nice.
That'd be useful, I haven't started updating this one yet so it may still be possible, though I'm using the first gen Mikro.
Should work, only problem I've encountered is when Live updated to 9.5 and the Maschine controllers script was buggy, but all is fine now.
Same here. Desktop is just so much faster for a lot of things later in the process, especially since you have key commands in all the DAWs to speed up certain operations. Using something like Auria is a lot of fun on the iPad, but it's ten times slower than say Live or Studio One for me for just that reason. Plus I don't have to stop every ten minutes to wipe fingerprints and smudges off the screen.
I will say I don't at all miss taking the laptop to the park to work outside like I used to though. Definitely where the iPad (or usually for me) the iPhone really comes into it's own for music making.
Cheers, I'll try and update those today.
I think it's down to what you get used to. I've been using Auria and the iPad as a main music making tool for the last few years, neglecting Logic and my other desktop DAW's, and as a result I can work quicker in say, Auria Pro, than I can in Logic.
All of this depends what you're doing with it though - I find MIDI stuff and live audio inputs in Logic quicker.