Loopy Pro: Create music, your way.
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Comments
it may read strange, but in fact the GUI interactive part is the most time consuming aspect in any kind of developement.
Writing great algorithms is simple (and straight forward), IF you have an idea about the topic. Reducing the GUI is a matter of cost reduction...
@Telefunky I sometimes dream up GUIs in my head. Even that is hard. Lots of "no no, that would be dumb."
I know, and certain IT companies who focussed a lot on it, reaped a lot of success for it. But with the ODYSSEi it is just bad design and project management. There is just no simple, good explanation, that the fixed Keyboard is this big, and the faders are this tiny. There is just no excuse, for an app launched in 2016, when countless others demonstrated how it could be done so much better.
I'm a database guy - the core may fit on a couple of pages, but handling the stuff is 10-50 times the amount. Not to forget to capture all the nonsense someone may do on entry or screen clicky-de-click
As we're at it: I confess guilty to have bought TC11 for the sole purpose to learn from it's neat user interface design
(not the fancy stuff on front screen, but the patch management)
@Patric_Bateman I just wanted to explain it, not defend them.
I don't have the Oddy and I don't plan to buy it because I've heard only rubbish examples.
This was a duophonic synth and any further poly sucks (imo), there never was an fx unit and no arpeg either. I already have more arpeggs and fx than I can play in a lifetime
As a schoolboy I stood in front of the local music store and dreamed of that white Oddy way out of reach for it's price tag...
Maybe I'll get Korg's revitalized desktop version one day, it's got a surprising sound quality for a low budget piece of analog hardware
No i understood you, very interesting stuff! I´m in the business myself, i´m an all-in-one freelance IT-provider for small businesses. I have to rely more on social skills and broad knowledge than on sophisticated and specialized skills :-)
You shouldn´t underestimate the polyphony of the ODYSSEi, it can do really great pads! The sound is beyond any discussion, i´m not a fan of most of the presets though. It´s just a great concept, ARP was ahead of the curve, it has such an educational feel to it. But, not being able to manipulate the faders comfortably is a huge problem. The linear fader nature of the ARP design is translated to the touchscreen very very poorly by Korg. Rotary Knobs on almost all other iOS synth get controlled by an up/downwards stroke motion, but with the huge difference, that it is always relative to the current knob position. The most extreme example is the tuning on the iVCS3, with another layer of transmission on the tuning knobs, that allows you to hit every micro tuning you would ever desire.
If Korg were smart, they woulnd´t make the faders absolute, they would make them relative to the current position, manipulated by the same up/downward motion you would use on the rotary knobs on virtually every other synth. And of course they would get rid of the useless fixed Keyboard, which is the worst solution imaginable, to make more room for the faders.
If i were in the development business, i´d be the Steve Jobs type, the asshole that tells the people with actual skills what to do :-p
I doubt whether Korg visits this forum so while your thread may be good for venting or for getting help from the kind folks around here to work around the issues you see, you're probably better off sending them an email or posting something on their forum.
I already did post it over there. Interestingly, the ODYSSEi subforum is dead...crickets. The Gadget Forum is alive and well though :-p Well, somethings gotta change, 2 1/2 stars on the App Store...for a synth with a bombastic sound, that should have 4 1/2 maybe a solid 5.
If Moog can make an iPhone version (which they have） I'm certain they could make something work with AUv3 on iPad ...not that they would have to cancel the standalone interface though.
Screen real estate is everything on the Model 15, yes it would be possible, but more scrolling is a lot less fun. Moog has done such a great job with the Model 15, it´s actually amazing. They couldn´t create a skeumorphic UI any better, it´s not the greatest solution for the touchscreen but it´s damn beautiful. The ODYSSEi panel would be so much better suited for the iPad if done right. But, it is what it is. I´ll work more with the Moog, it´s so damn beautiful. Not the fastest way to design and edit sounds, but it is done with so much love, it´s impressive.
Now if only Korg would fix their woefully incomplete stand-alone MIDI implementatioons. No port selection, is the biggest one. They are all promiscuous. Even in IAA mode. Only non-promiscuoius behavior is inside Gadget.
It is the worst MIDI implementation around. No clock sync is a joke. Moog even supports 14-bit Midi, Velocity and Aftertouch on the Model 15 and even expressive controllers now like the Seaboard or Linnstrument. The longer i think of it and actually compare, the more the KORG looks like a scam that just sounds good.
It's not as if Korg, as an entity, doesn't know MIDI. Their hardware does a fine job, even to the extent of properly publishing their implementation specs, including SYSEX dump formats, for e.g. the nano series. And Gadget has actually a very good implementation outside of the main mixer and transport control via MIDI. So they have at least one iOS programmer knows waht ze is doing.
i did post a link to the discussion here regarding the tuning "issue" on Korg support forums. That got fixed. Was it because of us? Who knows. But I'm sure it didn't hurt
They certainly don´t pay any attention to it, and are light years behind moog. I remember Animoog having a much better implementation five years ago, and today even supports MPE expressive controllers.
You´re absolutely right, it can´t hurt. If i were at KORG, i would be grateful for customers making an effort of giving detailed Feedback. The App-Store rating and sales performance of this still brand new synth should set off alarm bells over there. I checked last night, and it was ranked #82 in the music app charts, performing the worst by far of all KORG Synths. It even get´s outperformed by the 6-year old iMS-20 which doesn´t support Gadget, doesn´t have IAA etc etc.
As someone who has Gadget and Module and iM1 and iDS-10 and iKaossilator it seemed only natural to add ARP ODYSSEi and iWAVESTATION, but I think I'm going to hold off. I mean props to them for being so prolific. However I want to see more evidence that this isn't just going to be quantity over quality. Quality matters more in the long run. They've got some loose ends to tie up. STILL waiting for iDS-10 to get Link, which they already promised. Happy to see they've gotten religion about being universal moving forward. What about their older apps though? If iM1 were made universal, and iKaossilator were made into a gadget, I think I'd feel more obligated to keep supporting their efforts, and trust them to sort it all out. Right now, I think they've had enough of my wallet, and need to clean up shop.
well said, easier said than done, I'm trying so hard to resist the AO/iW purchase.
That´s a very interesting assessment, i had similar thoughts when comparing the KORG Synths with the MOOG Synths. Moog has only two synths in the App Store, and they are both absolutely perfect. I´m sure they could flood the App Store with synth apps if they wanted to, but i believe they are VERY protective of their brand. Korg certainly isn´t. The level of detail in the Model 15 App is just baffling. Everything is perfect, from the patch browser, to the MIDI Implementation, the user interface everything is just so polished, you couldn't do it any better. And on KORG everything is meh, apart from the sound, which is great. The MIDI implementation is particularly horrible on the ODYSSEi.
I believe it´s a fair comparison, since the synths are from the early seventies, and both Apps are from 2016, and in the same price range.
The Model 15 has a well deserved 5 Star rating, and the ODYSSEi 2 1/2 stars.
I always try to be a fair guy, and i love the iWavestation. Due to the very different nature of the synths, the MIDI problems aren´t as significant there. The user interface is actually great. Also, it has a full IAA implementation, which the ODYSSEi doesn´t. The iWavestation get's my recommendation...
Yeah they put the A Team on iWavestation it seems
the Wavestation is a piece of cake to emulate versus the ARP filters, let alone there are 3 versions of the latter and people may expect to hear a difference - really tough job.
But I like the user interface approach of the iWavestation - no need for it with all the Waldorf and PPG stuff and even a kind of Prophet VS emulation, but it makes me curious.
Actually I don't mind the iOddy much because the hardware counterpart is so affordable.
(and stood the test of countless comparisons, including the original hardware)
That´s why it´s called the ODYSSEi Frustration thread, to put in these kind of resources and nailing down the great ODYSSEi sound, and then wrapping it up in a very flawed package. I never compare analogue hardware synths to software, I like to compare apps vs apps on this forum, and the quality of the Moog Model 15 app is the perfect example, what KORG should aspire to.
Maybe we should just use them like out bord gear - record them - match them up - and get on with the music.
I still use Thesys with the Korg apps if I want some kind of sync. We still have to work around all the faults and shortcommings to make it work. Treat it like a guitar or and old drum machine that you want to use - and get it to work.
And by the way - yes I agree totally - why not do it right in the first place.
But the ARP is so sick - use it.
I see its shortcomings, but for sound reasons i keep coming back to it and using it. Overall, I'm satisfied with my purchase and have no complaints.
I get what you´re saying, and if this works for you, great! I see it differently, i´d like the apps to be held to the same high standard as hardware would be, and moog is doing just that. When you have dozens of synths on an iPad, you mostly don´t develop the same relationship as you would if you would own just a couple of hardware synths. You don´t see the point of living and working around it´s quirks, when there are so many other great synths available at a fingertip.
I really like to master a synth, study the manual, and frustrating factors impede this. Like the faders that are such a hassle to fine adjust. Moog has a simple trick on the model 15 app, if you use a second finger while adjusting a knob, it switches to a fine - adjust mode. There would be many solutions to get the faders right.
The missing tempo sync for the built in sequencer renders the feature useless for many genres. You could actually do crazy things with it, since it´s very powerful, but doesn´t really make sense without clock sync. The LFO too.
This should all be not that hard to fix, but KORG needs an incentive to do it. Customer Feedback is such an incentive.
I understand your frustration Patric, and I don't even own the app... the world is a fickle place. When the advent of software instruments really began to take off the major selling point was that it was updatable, improvable, and could grow with exceptional new features.... now a days forget new features, people don't even want to hear you talk about improving what's already in the app. Stay strong, keep your head up, your chin down, and don't sit on the pancakes.
Thx, and in the end it's the responsibility of the consumers to change things. We just shouldn't put up with subpar quality, and vote with our wallets. The protest, App-Store rating is having a real effect on the sales of the app.
I just don´t get, why people are so hesitant to call the stuff out. It's this weird psychological phenomenon, i don't have the name for it, that makes it hard for many people to be reasonable, neutral and objective. They identify with a brand to such a degree, that they feel personally offended if you criticize one of their products.
+1 - I always wondered what the difference was.
iOS just isn't as mature as we'd like to think in some ways, many people exclaim how an app is just the cost of a latte and look at iOS as if it's donating to charity or something, but anyone who's been into a starbucks knows what it looks like when somebody's latte wasn't made right.... lol, and the barista job is no joke, they are trying to get it right.
, especially when it's a great app/instrument.
best thing imo is to not focus on the push back and just focus on constructive ideas for the apps I guess..sometimes it's harder than other times
The UI definitely needs work. It's way too fiddly. The sound is so good though!