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Kirnu - Cream Mobile
Decided to pick this up. Planning to visit the old posts here, but wanted an updated thread. Are you using Cream Mobile? Thoughts or tips etc about it? Chime in, and let's get the band back together!
Comments
Uh oh.
Bought it on release day, so many functions but so few videos or tutorials made it almost impossible to be productive. It looks one of the most impressive apps if I could operate it properly, but new apps and no time to learn something new, forced me to delete it. Sad, because I know it can be awesome (as proven in some of the demos at the time).
If it receives some love here again, I may resurrect it
Same deal here, looks and sounds great, but hard to get to grips with, compared to apps with a similar ambition, say Sugarbytes Egoist
I think Thesys is more comparable to cream.
Well, had a quick 30 minute. Definitely gotta figure out what drives what. Tried setting up Fugue Machine outputting Channels 1-4 on respective playheads, got some random good sounds there. Seems you could get the Chord Memory going in Cream w/ Fugue tho somehow... And ya know, gotta try this w/ Modstep soon:
I think The Captain led the church on this one and it now sits quietly in my 'will take some effort but you really should' folder'. Needless to say I haven't. Glad to see you picking up the torch....I think (for me) complex applications require some ongoing commitment/love from the developer to make me really motivated to invest the time. This app, so full of possibilities, was essentially released and that's that. A year has almost passed. So, it is what it is and I'm sure Kaikoo would say "What else do you need?" but all weak man require some sort of rationale and that's largely mine...
Same here. I know I should, but I probably won't.....put in the effort that is
I bought this a couple months ago. I did put in the time to learn it, and after making a couple cool sequences with it, i decided it took me too long to come up with them. I keep almost buying thesys, but i can't tell if you can have multiple patterns in thesys, like you can in cream.
In a way using cream to program sequences with different korg gadgets is faster than using Gadget, but in a way it's not. But i also prefer to sequence all parts simultaneously, as opposed to one part, than the next.
It's faster cause if you're using cream, you can switch to a different sequencer driving another midi channel with only one button press. But it's longer cause note duration, pitch, ect are all seperate sub sequences. Basically I'm using an arp for a sequencer, which can be very clunky, and if you want polyphony, you have to sacrifice tracks. Plus the UI makes it not fun if your looking to use it as a sequencer. It seems more suited for desktop use.
In the end, i dunno anymore. I'm kind of trying for a non intended use by triggering or sampling small sequences. I'm trying not to sound EDM with it. (...says the guy with cream and gadget :-)
If you like jamming with arpeggiators, cream is worth learning.
I don't have this one, but I may get it some day. Kirnu Cream is also a plug-in for desktop, and you can get a cutdown version for free if you buy a copy of Computer Music magazine. If you've bought CM magazine if the past few years, you already own it.
There are a number of tutorials on YouTube. Here are the official videos for the plug-in:
https://www.youtube.com/user/kirnuarp/videos
good tips here from @wally and @Kaikoo2:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/13774/kirnu-cream-any-suggestions/p1
Yep, I had just dialogued a bit w/ him. I've been intrigued by the app, held off for the lack of updates (mentioned below). Interestingly, while I've read the learning-curve issue repeatedly, I can't recall reading about Bugs. So I'm hoping it'll be an app that just works.
Here's my initial stream-of-app-consciousness thoughts I jotted down while playing around. Please note, many of my below topics could be in the Manual, which I've only read about 5 pages of. I love manuals, but fumbling around first helps. That being said, each ? I hope is an opportunity to talk about the workflow and ideas related to the ? ~ rather than strictly-manual aspects. Also, I personally can't learn via video, probably from being an literature/philosophy major:
I like how it creates and displays working Virtual Ports, and the option to Auto-Connect available ports on load-up is great. I like the Gui too, the pattern editor seems small (ah, but I see there's a Quick Edit button that brings up a good sized pattern editor interface, small but then lots of on screen options is good, I'm not a good menu diver whilst making music, the knobs for Gate/Swing etc look great. I like the note displays on the keyboard, and I haven't touched the synth yet, but it looks fun, and I see Preset saving is available... I'm wondering if the synths are modulating the patterns, haven't read but the first few pages of the manual, which also gives a favorable impression as it's the same manual for desktop/iPad version... wondering if project transfers work? I have the demo version of Cream for the Mac, I'm going to buy it if that's the case. Can patterns be imported/exported as MIDI? What's its IAA etc status?
Yes, I'm definitely interested in learning arpeggiators, I'd like to try out a hardware arpeggiator sometime - what's the fundamental difference between Cream-as-arpeggiator and a sequencer? Is arpeggiation entirely distinguishable from a sequencer, or a subclass or type of sequencer feature/functionality?
I haven't a clue about Chord Memory functionality - anyone want to cover this concept a bit? What would a basic idea for utilizing the Chord Memory functionality be? I see there's a Preset Manager for Chord Memory as well - anyone with Chord knowledge know maybe how to structure a collection of Chord Presets on standardized Chords etc? Second Menu there is Major 1-4 Minor 1-4 with a Left/Right Inv option. Okay, I see now that There are 16 Chord Memory Slots, each of the Slots are selectable in the CHRDMEM section of the Pattern Editor, so basically you an assign Chord Memory 1-16 per each of your sequencer Steps. But What are the rectangles Slots below the Chord Memory Keyboard for? Am I correct in thinking that having 16 assignable Chord Memory slots per Step could reduce the need for Channel use? Can you still input a note in the Sequencer Steps on which a Chord Memory is assigned? It looks like Chord Memories can be comprised of more than 3 Notes? Wonder if someone smart could come up with a near-MPE output schema w/ Cream?
Speaking of Output, is it me or does Cream output MIDI of muted Steps? This could be both handy & annoying, but I haven't been able to confirm - But if you could live input a MIDI stream, run it through all the Cream goodies, and then straight output it all w/out Cream Audio... or is that a reasonable/useful idea?
Looks like you can have 12 Patterns of up to Length of 32 Steps each, each of the 12 pattern Slots can be repeated up to 32 times. Hmm... then there are 4 Tracks (w/ IAP Expansion). Assuming Tracks only play sequentially 1-4? What's the workflow if you want to switch Tracks on the fly? How does quantization work here? Can Tracks play simultaneously? That would be cool for more intricate layering
I think I might understand what the Chord Memory Trigger button does... which Chord memory gets triggered? Where is the triggering done from or assignable to? Is this MIDI-controllable transport function? yfhd
Really curious - on the Pattern Editor There are 8 CC's listed, with a Teach button to the right. What do these CC's Correspond to?
Anyone like to discuss the Key Area Start/End/Base Note functionality?
What does it mean to Hold a Transposition. I get Note hold, but what's getting held here?
There's Pattern Change "Next, Synch:4 Synch:8 Sync:16" what are the increments referring to and what's being synched? Is this just tempo sync pattern-by-pattern or every 4/8/16 patterns?
What's the function of the 12 Scale Modes? What defines these Modes?
What gets Reset when you select Reset On New Note? Which Note is New?
What is the Start Notes functionality? (1-4)
In the Configuration Menu - there's an option to set Gate Length to Steps. I understand gate length, but not this part, does this mean the gate length of individual Steps will be set by relation to ?
There's the option to Transpose all Output Notes - Transpose by what tho?
There's the Option to Disable Control Zone, not sure what that correlates to on the Gui or Control Messages...
Audio Latency is Low/Medium/High is this 256/512...?
In the Pattern Editor the Order Grid includes per step selectable options: Off/Previous/1st/Last/Hi/Low/Random... What would Hi/Low refer to here? The highest or Lowest Step # from 1-32?
In Pattern Editor Accent is assignable per step between 0/ +-100. What's the correlation here?
Up top Gui you Can Turn the Drum Loop On/Off and Select a Bass/lead/rhythm/misc/Init. Assuming that the User Presets must be created in Cream, and saved to 1 of these categories? Or can they be brought in via etc etc?
Looks like Drum Loops are quite limited, and no option to create/load User Drum Loops? That might be a decent feature request.
Have any good external reads relatable to the Cream workflow?.... like general arpeggiation design and theory (again going back here to the sequencer/arpeggiator distinctions)
All valid points here. I'm not a Gadget user. My initial thought was it's the Different Drummer of Sequencers. And yep, desktop UI is nice, but I'm not finding much issue with the Gui thus far.
Definitely, and I like the Synth aspect too, though only a moment with it. Feel like IAA Fx hosting here would be good. Probably going to check on loading into Moebius Lab at some point. Bet this looks really good on the 12.9 screen.
This is the only app I tried several times but could never get a grasp on. I can see potential, but there's other things out there that will get me making music more quickly, even if they don't have its features.
I really feel like it was a failure in the manual department due to language barrier.
Hehe, more like finally got an hour .to play amongst Santa duties. Did distract myself trying come up with a clever joke involving Father Time & his potentially ill-mannered brother, Isochronous Time... didn't really work out. Yes, I do have a website and appreciate your asking - like the music experiment, it's lurching toward reasonable, but still very much under construction
Sign me up to peruse your site when it's ready for its soft opening
Your stream of thoughts ring all the right boxes with me. So many possibilities/questions etc. I am currently fiddling with the little Circuit box for the first time and am often stumped in what IT CAN SURELY do but I cannot make it do, however I find myself giving it more time than I would a software app with the same promise but also the same confusion....guess as much as anything because it cost a lot more
But also because it's very apparently a Thing, not an Idea (which is how my central nervous system unconsciously considers software). Look forward to your further peregrinations etc.
Jeez , it's late here but I'll try a brief resonse to some of these.
as original beta tester who as yet has failed to honour video tutorial promises ;
edited original with my unofficial TBOMK responses in brackets :
>
( Synths dont modulate patterns , not sure what you mean . Presets are transferrable between desktop software , Songs contain Presets + ipad only settings .
No direct export of midi file - record it in realtime . Cream works in IAA mode as Generator for synth audio )
( A sequencer outputs fixed notes once play is pushed , a programmable arpeggiator outputs the programmed relationships of input notes in realtime : change the input notes & you change the output notes . This is different to transposing a sequencer pattern . e.g program CEGE in sequencer , push play , transpose +2 steps = DF#AF# still major . for arpeggiator program note # 1,2,3,2 & play CEG = CEGE but play DFA then output is minor.
So arpeggiators are programmed as "how to order input notes " , ( avoiding the word sequence here) , with changes in realtime by playing keyboard affecting output. There is no play button , because arp is triggered by keyboard notes.
A programmable arp can be made to behave like a sequencer , more so than vice versa )
(( I will attach my ChordMem info page , though linked earlier in thread . Rectangles below are to define Base Note to trigger chord , used differently for ChordMem , all same , so single note plays up to 16 chords in Pattern with one trigger note , or all different for ChordMem Trigger so different key plays each chord )
Am I correct in thinking that having 16 assignable Chord Memory slots per Step could reduce the need for Channel use?
( not sure what you mean , each Cream track is at least 8 note polyphonic anyway )
Can you still input a note in the Sequencer Steps on which a Chord Memory is assigned?
( Use another track, all four can play at once )
It looks like Chord Memories can be comprised of more than 3 Notes? ( at least 8, if not more )
Wonder if someone smart could come up with a near-MPE output schema w/ Cream?
(?)
( CC lane output is still sent if note muted I'm pretty sure , there's a CC only mode)
( Incorrect , why do you quote 32 ? it's either indefinitley, or if programmed in Pattern Sequencer it's up to 32 repeats per PatternSequencer Step x 16 steps)
Hmm... then there are 4 Tracks (w/ IAP Expansion). Assuming Tracks only play sequentially 1-4?
( NO! ALL 4 Tracks play concurrently ! e.g bass, chords, arp, melody )
What's the workflow if you want to switch Tracks on the fly? How does quantization work here? Can Tracks play simultaneously? ( yes)
( Fixed keyboard notes trigger ChordMemory Trigger see infosheet .)
( Set them to the CC you want to modulate on external synths . Do not currently control internal synth )
( info about this in my tips on Youtube channel info , will link, also discussed in other Cream threads ..<I'm getting tired now>
( Refers to Steps , so quantises Pattern changes ... similar for Hold Sync Note Off )
( Restricts output notes to chosen Scale . I'm hazy on modes but I think it allows more flexibility , normally leave at Mode 1 for normal Maj/Min set in conjunction with Scale & Key settings , but e.g set to Mode 2 in C+ Major gives D Dorian notes . not sure why 12 not 8 , but..)
( Pattern ..see Decode the Matrix jpeg or YT video )
Which Note is New?
( played input note .. ** this function requires minimum of 2 tracks , I need to explain this in more detail in future )
( fun ..number of notes played on keyboard before arp engine begins , so set to 3 & you can twiddle an opening melody before playing a 3 note chord starts engine playing)
( in relation to Rate of Pattern )
( realtime keyboard input x Scale I had assumed , must research further myself )
( Control Zone is lowest keyboard octave used as Pattern change triggers 1-12 on/off)
youtube tips in info :
Buy that man a large beer.
I got the second and third.
I found reading the Cream manual to be helpful. You can trigger and control tempo in Cream via another app such as Fugue Machine. It can send out notes and MIDI CC which can be configured for each step in each pattern. You can do some really interesting things with the order tab. In addition for each step in the pattern you can set the gate, step length, accent, and transposition.
If you enjoy sequencing and want lots of control over what's happening, it's worth learning how to use Cream. If you want just a simple conventional step sequencer, there are more straight forward options in other apps.
@JohnnyGoodyear @syrupcore - Right on. @Wally Thanks for your responses, especially (thus far) the explanation of arpeggiators v. sequencers - prior to that I'd understood both separately, and arpeggiator explanations focus on etymology or background of musical theory, rather than distinctions between realtime/played, and transpositions, in arpeggiators/sequencers, which you succinctly describe above. I'm working through the Manual now, one mistake I made was Clicking the link to the Manual from the About tab in the Configuration window of the app. This links to the desktop Cream Manual, which I assumed to be the Manual, but on the Cream Website, hovering my mouse over the Manual tab at the top of the page revealed a link to the iPad edition of the Manual: http://www.kirnuarp.com/CreamMobile-Manual.pdf. There's a German version there as well - Maybe if you have a line to the Dev you can mention this... and find out if any updates are in the works! I'll write back to more of the above points after reading the Manual ( @InfoCheck ) and another jam sesh. I'm excited to learn a bit more about Chords now, and dreaming up some workflow between the Scale Mode of the LP Pro, the Circuit, and Cream.
General Q - what other arpeggiators are out there for iOS? Anything comparable to Cream Mobile?
Sidenote tip: 'Chordmaps2' https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chordmaps2/id1098330720?mt=8 is on sale and making a wonderful companion for cream (as midi input source).
Correcto
I bought it same day - which also was the original release of Modstep.
Sadly, neither have gotten much use from me.
I am not big on "filling in squares" or having a computer play my notes either, so Cream doesn't have a multitude of uses for me.
Although, I may re-engage the app.
I agree on videos.
I never saw a company endorsed tutorial and getting started series DEDICATED to the IOS version.
Yes, they may be almost the same, but it is ALMOST.
Patronize me, I paid like $15 or something for the app.
Interestingly, I didn't get a refund because I know there is potential there.
I am on my way to WALLY WORLD!!
Thanks broseph
I just redownloaded it and fired it up, and for some reason it all makes sense to me now. That said, I still don't know if I'll ever make use of such a complicated thing, but there's potential.
Oh no, not another Kirnu Cream thread!
I finally deleted this from my iPad because it mocked me relentlessly from the screen, even when buried deep in a folder. Not only did it remind me of my inability to use it, but also of the money spent on it. The main thing I got from this app was the knowledge that I shouldn't buy complex apps with big learning curves.
Just lurked onto the Cream Forum - the Dev posted there as recently as early summer that he was actively working on updates to Cream Mobile, including Link - and the desktop version was updated in the Fall... let the nudging begin!
Great app, simple to use
I hope it gets Link. This would make it a lot more fun to use.