Audio Evolution Mobile DAW

gregsmith

@rs2000 said:

@gregsmith said:
Yep good point. I quite like the piano roll as is although the touch tolerance on notes means I often can’t select them.

You can zoom- in horizontically and vertically as you like.
Note that to move a note, you have to tap on the left side of it, and to change its length, tap on its right side.

This may just be on mobile. You should be able to just lasso then long press to popup a menu to copy or delete. Tapping in a blank space should unselect. Long press in a blank space should offer a popup to paste if available.

That's exactly the way it works now except you just have to single-tap on the selection to open the Cut/Copy/Delete menu.
If you tap-hold on the selection for a moment, you can move all selected notes.
This is to avoid moving the selected notes accidentally if you just want to pan around in the piano roll e.g. to scroll to a new area where you intend to paste copied notes.

The piano roll in its current implementation is designed to be a best-of set of features to make entering and editing notes as quick and as straightforward as possible. That's also why there are DYN settings for both the grid and the note length: If you don't like the fixed grid and note length settings, you can just zoom in and out and let the grid and/or the note lengths be determined by the currently visible grid lines.
If you need a very short note, a drum flam or a fast arpeggio, you can just zoom in and enter the short and fast set of notes, for example.

Thanks for clarifying. I think I just need to get used to it and stay in draw mode rather than switching to edit mode.

gregsmith

Just had another play with arrange mode and actually the only thing missing is paste from the long press menu when not in range mode, unless I’m missing something?

TheOriginalPaulB

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

@dwrae said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
The problem seems to be repeatable. The whole first bar is not recorded. Or rather I think it is recorded but I think it’s placed at “-1”. So the midi clip is a whole bar behind where it should be, you don’t hear the first bars notes and everything else comes a bar too early.

When you stop recording, you see the clip shift two bars to the left. So I think everything is recorded and (not a solution, just a brainstorm) if you would shift the clip back right two bars and (un)trim the left side of the clip to 0:00, the notes would probably appear. Now I just have to find out why it happens and more worrying, why it sometimes happens.

Yep. That makes sense. Very odd behaviour.

Maybe in some circumstances (eg multichannel midi) you’re counting from 0 not 1 or something? Just a guess.

Happens with Lightblock. Doesn’t happen with NanoKeyStudio. Both over Bluetooth and both under identical conditions, count in switched off, no metronome. Go figure !

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

@dwrae said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
The problem seems to be repeatable. The whole first bar is not recorded. Or rather I think it is recorded but I think it’s placed at “-1”. So the midi clip is a whole bar behind where it should be, you don’t hear the first bars notes and everything else comes a bar too early.

When you stop recording, you see the clip shift two bars to the left. So I think everything is recorded and (not a solution, just a brainstorm) if you would shift the clip back right two bars and (un)trim the left side of the clip to 0:00, the notes would probably appear. Now I just have to find out why it happens and more worrying, why it sometimes happens.

Yep. That makes sense. Very odd behaviour.

Maybe in some circumstances (eg multichannel midi) you’re counting from 0 not 1 or something? Just a guess.

Happens with Lightblock. Doesn’t happen with NanoKeyStudio. Both over Bluetooth and both under identical conditions, count in switched off, no metronome. Go figure !

Seeing as it’s controller specific, could it be something to do with MIDI timestamp? The two controllers may be generating it differently.

rs2000

@TheOriginalPaulB said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

@dwrae said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
The problem seems to be repeatable. The whole first bar is not recorded. Or rather I think it is recorded but I think it’s placed at “-1”. So the midi clip is a whole bar behind where it should be, you don’t hear the first bars notes and everything else comes a bar too early.

When you stop recording, you see the clip shift two bars to the left. So I think everything is recorded and (not a solution, just a brainstorm) if you would shift the clip back right two bars and (un)trim the left side of the clip to 0:00, the notes would probably appear. Now I just have to find out why it happens and more worrying, why it sometimes happens.

Yep. That makes sense. Very odd behaviour.

Maybe in some circumstances (eg multichannel midi) you’re counting from 0 not 1 or something? Just a guess.

Happens with Lightblock. Doesn’t happen with NanoKeyStudio. Both over Bluetooth and both under identical conditions, count in switched off, no metronome. Go figure !

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

@dwrae said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
The problem seems to be repeatable. The whole first bar is not recorded. Or rather I think it is recorded but I think it’s placed at “-1”. So the midi clip is a whole bar behind where it should be, you don’t hear the first bars notes and everything else comes a bar too early.

When you stop recording, you see the clip shift two bars to the left. So I think everything is recorded and (not a solution, just a brainstorm) if you would shift the clip back right two bars and (un)trim the left side of the clip to 0:00, the notes would probably appear. Now I just have to find out why it happens and more worrying, why it sometimes happens.

Yep. That makes sense. Very odd behaviour.

Maybe in some circumstances (eg multichannel midi) you’re counting from 0 not 1 or something? Just a guess.

Happens with Lightblock. Doesn’t happen with NanoKeyStudio. Both over Bluetooth and both under identical conditions, count in switched off, no metronome. Go figure !

Seeing as it’s controller specific, could it be something to do with MIDI timestamp? The two controllers may be generating it differently.

You can help @dwrae by capturing the MIDI data that's causing the issues using something like https://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/ , save as a file and send it to him.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

Thanks. Although he has the exact same model of Lightblock now. Which is where the midi is coming from.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

But thanks @rs2000 will have a go when I get a chance.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
I have a question on midi AUs.

Is the idea that they generate midi which is then printed to the midi clip if you press record?

Or are they just supposed to ‘run live’ in your track, (and when you mix down you’ll here what they have produced.)

I tried Rozeta Baseline as an effect on Model 15, playing a 16 step repeating pattern. When I recorded a midi clip it was blank apart from a few very short notes within the first 16th of the first bar. Were these printed notes a bug? Are they supposed to be there?

Just bumping this question. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

JonLewis

@dwrae I think I have an onscreen keyboard bug? On my iPhone SE (iOS 11.2.5), when playing the in-app keyboard, I am getting a lot of dropped notes - well not exactly dropped notes but - if I hit a key and hold it for say half a second, then slide to the adjacent key, it often does not respond to that change of pitch and thinks I am still holding the first note. That is, say I hit C for an eighth note and then slide down to B without lifting my finger. More often than not, C continues to play. In fact, if I don’t lift my finger I can slide it all over the keyboard and it just holds the same note.

This does not happen if I only hold the first note a brief time - say a sixteenth note at 120bpm - then I can slide to other notes successfully.

It does not seem to correspond to things like higher-quality soundfonts - it happens with low size soundfonts too. It also happens regardless of whether I am recording or not. It seems like after a given note-touch lasts X tenths of a second, the keyboard assumes I am not going to change pitch anymore and interprets any continued touch as being in the same initial location (C in the above example).

Littlewoodg

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
I have a question on midi AUs.

Is the idea that they generate midi which is then printed to the midi clip if you press record?

Or are they just supposed to ‘run live’ in your track, (and when you mix down you’ll here what they have produced.)

I tried Rozeta Baseline as an effect on Model 15, playing a 16 step repeating pattern. When I recorded a midi clip it was blank apart from a few very short notes within the first 16th of the first bar. Were these printed notes a bug? Are they supposed to be there?

Just bumping this question. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

You may want to try a different source than model 15- Bassline should print a clip when you press record as you say. Works the same way as in Cubasis, program the AUv3 midi app, press record, midi track printed nicely. I tried Model 15, midi printed, but track didn’t render. Tried a sF2, and Phrasemaker, rendered both no issue.

dwrae

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Just bumping this question. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

MIDI AU's are meant to be applied to live input only and recorded to the clip. On playback, the AU MIDI is ignored.

dwrae

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Thanks. Although he has the exact same model of Lightblock now. Which is where the midi is coming from.

Tried for a couple of hours, but I just cannot reproduce it. Can you please state if you can reproduce it by doing the following:

• Start the app
• Create an instrument track, leave the selection to GeneralUser.sf2
• Open the Tempo dialog, enable Metronome, Count-in and select 2 bars
• Open the input dialog of the track, select Lightblock as input (with keep off)
• Arm the track
• Play until bar 14 or so
• Stop

Audiojunkie

@JonLewis said:
@dwrae I think I have an onscreen keyboard bug? On my iPhone SE (iOS 11.2.5), when playing the in-app keyboard, I am getting a lot of dropped notes - well not exactly dropped notes but - if I hit a key and hold it for say half a second, then slide to the adjacent key, it often does not respond to that change of pitch and thinks I am still holding the first note. That is, say I hit C for an eighth note and then slide down to B without lifting my finger. More often than not, C continues to play. In fact, if I don’t lift my finger I can slide it all over the keyboard and it just holds the same note.

This does not happen if I only hold the first note a brief time - say a sixteenth note at 120bpm - then I can slide to other notes successfully.

It does not seem to correspond to things like higher-quality soundfonts - it happens with low size soundfonts too. It also happens regardless of whether I am recording or not. It seems like after a given note-touch lasts X tenths of a second, the keyboard assumes I am not going to change pitch anymore and interprets any continued touch as being in the same initial location (C in the above example).

I see this too

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@dwrae said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Just bumping this question. Anyone got any knowledge on this?

MIDI AU's are meant to be applied to live input only and recorded to the clip. On playback, the AU MIDI is ignored.

Do you have Rozeta to test?

Rozetta baseline self runs when you press play/record in its host.

It doesn’t seem to be printing midi in AEM (beyond the very first 16th of a bar). Maybe because there is no ‘input’ since it self runs.

stormbeats

@dwrae How you doing its Storm - we spoke a few times via Facebook - really good progress with AEM much appreciated.
Any thoughts on having the built in 3 band eq pre fader as an option in preferences?
That way I can feed the signal from the 3 band eq into plugins on the same channel/fader.
Also can you add repeat regions/parts right click menu in edit mode?
Not a major problem but importing audio from audioshare creates new tracks automatically- is there a way you can added an option to import to the track selected? I have created project templates with tracks and have to delete newly added tracks due to Audio importing

stormbeats

@gregsmith said:

@rs2000 said:

@gregsmith said:
I’ve really got into making a track with this now but I’m starting to have some real problems. I’m finding that the au instruments I’m adding are getting stuck on a note, so there’s a low buzz from model d or whatever. Only way I can stop it is by closing and opening the app again.

I’ve also just added two Volt tracks and it didn’t like it at all. It’s seemingly getting stuck on a note which does drift a bit over time until I stop the app or get rid of a volt instance.

It’s a shame as this is making it impossible to get anywhere with making a track.

Also I’m finding the selecting ranges, copying and pasting, moving stuff etc around quite difficult. If I was you @dwrae I’d spend some time with the FLSM interface. It’s not perfect but allows you to copy, paste etc without having to switch between different editing modes like scroll, edit, range etc. It feels a lot more natural and is very easy to learn, and quick to use.

Hope this is helpful. I really want to move to this app full time.

Editing in the arrangement window and in the piano roll are quite different atm.
How would you think about editing in the arrangement to be more like in the piano roll, i.e. without switching modes (mostly)?

Yep good point. I quite like the piano roll as is although the touch tolerance on notes means I often can’t select them. This may just be on mobile. You should be able to just lasso then long press to popup a menu to copy or delete. Tapping in a blank space should unselect. Long press in a blank space should offer a popup to paste if available.

I think in arrangement view you should be able to add, remove, copy and paste all in one mode with long presses and the popup menu. In the same mode you should then be able to move, lengthen and shorten clips. It’s nearly there. Basically merge edit and remove mode and allow copy and paste outside of range mode. Also you should have to long press in a blank space to have the option to create new clip or paste when in edit mode. Range is a good idea I guess but is buggy at the moment as it doesn’t turn the whole section blue.

Hope this makes sense and is helpful! As I say, most of it’s stolen from FLSM.

Agreed the Range tool needs a bit of work it does not highlight regions too well at moment

dwrae

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
It doesn’t seem to be printing midi in AEM (beyond the very first 16th of a bar). Maybe because there is no ‘input’ since it self runs.

I actually tested with Rozeta, but not all different ones. Can you please drop me an email to info AT audio-evolution.com, so I can add you to TestFlight and send you some versions with more debugging info to solve the MIDI input issue you are having? I think that has priority over this.

dwrae

@JonLewis said:
@dwrae I think I have an onscreen keyboard bug? On my iPhone SE (iOS 11.2.5), when playing the in-app keyboard, I am getting a lot of dropped notes - well not exactly dropped notes but - if I hit a key and hold it for say half a second, then slide to the adjacent key, it often does not respond to that change of pitch and thinks I am still holding the first note. That is, say I hit C for an eighth note and then slide down to B without lifting my finger. More often than not, C continues to play. In fact, if I don’t lift my finger I can slide it all over the keyboard and it just holds the same note.

This does not happen if I only hold the first note a brief time - say a sixteenth note at 120bpm - then I can slide to other notes successfully.

It does not seem to correspond to things like higher-quality soundfonts - it happens with low size soundfonts too. It also happens regardless of whether I am recording or not. It seems like after a given note-touch lasts X tenths of a second, the keyboard assumes I am not going to change pitch anymore and interprets any continued touch as being in the same initial location (C in the above example).

I have many iPhones, but not a SE unfortunately. I tested it here on a 6S and an iPad PRO but cannot reproduce it. Do you also experience that when you play trills fast (for example, press B and C fast after each other, so BCBCBCBCBC), that notes get delayed?

dwrae

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Rozetta baseline self runs when you press play/record in its host.

It doesn’t seem to be printing midi in AEM (beyond the very first 16th of a bar). Maybe because there is no ‘input’ since it self runs.

What I did:

• Start the app
• Create instrument track (leave it on piano)
• Select AU MIDI -> Rozeta Bassline
• Tap on the first dot, it becomes selected
• Tap on the 3rd dot, it becomes selected
• Change the 3rd do to some other key
• Press record
• Let it play a couple of times, press F
• Stop
• Next
• I see the clip (10 bars) with what I just heard including the change to key F

The only issue that I see now is that audio is doubled on playback since the app probably does not expect the AU MIDI to produce anything without MIDI input, but that's another thing. Are you doing anything different than my steps above?

dwrae

@stormbeats said:
@dwrae How you doing its Storm - we spoke a few times via Facebook - really good progress with AEM much appreciated.
Any thoughts on having the built in 3 band eq pre fader as an option in preferences?

It's too risky at the moment and too many other priorities.

Also can you add repeat regions/parts right click menu in edit mode?

Currently there is no menu in Edit mode because the chances of moving a clip just to get the menu are too big.

Not a major problem but importing audio from audioshare creates new tracks automatically- is there a way you can added an option to import to the track selected? I have created project templates with tracks and have to delete newly added tracks due to Audio importing

I guess so, although the app does not need to be running when using AudioShare, so it may not work all the time.

dwrae

@stormbeats said:
Agreed the Range tool needs a bit of work it does not highlight regions too well at moment

Can you please elaborate in which situations the Range tool (when Range is selected) does not highlight regions correctly please?

JonLewis

Actually I was just playing around earlier and I have a little more detail about what instigates this 'glissando blindness' on my SE.

The scenario that almost always makes it happen is if the long note is preceded by a very short quickly released note on another pitch. So for example:

--C3 (16th note) played by left index finger, staccato - released immediately a split second before right index finger hits C4 (quarter note). C4 is then slid to B3 but without lifting right finger from keyboard. B3 does not sound - C4 continues to sound until right finger is lifted.

Playing it slightly differently (letting the initial note sustain while the higher notes happen) avoids the problem:

--C3 played by left index finger a split second before right index finger hits C4 (quarter note), BUT this time the initial C3 is held and not released as the subsequent notes are played. C4 is then slid to B3 but without lifting right finger from keyboard. B3 sounds correctly and C4 releases when finger slides off C4 key.

And of course avoiding glissando action also avoids the problem:

--C3 (16th note) played by left index finger, staccato - released immediately a split second before right index finger hits C4 (quarter note). Finger is lifted briefly from C4 and comes back down to hit B3 key. C4 releases when finger lifts up and B3 sounds correctly when struck.

So it seems to be something weird when one key playing a short note sends a release signal just before a different note is touched elsewhere on the keyboard, causing the life cycle of that second touch to be interpreted as never leaving its initial key location. I hope that makes sense and helps!

I seem to remember trilling works as expected but I will check on my next work break...

TheOriginalPaulB

Could it be treating it as a double tap slide instead of single tap, single tap slide?

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@dwrae said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Rozetta baseline self runs when you press play/record in its host.

It doesn’t seem to be printing midi in AEM (beyond the very first 16th of a bar). Maybe because there is no ‘input’ since it self runs.

What I did:

• Start the app
• Create instrument track (leave it on piano)
• Select AU MIDI -> Rozeta Bassline
• Tap on the first dot, it becomes selected
• Tap on the 3rd dot, it becomes selected
• Change the 3rd do to some other key
• Press record
• Let it play a couple of times, press F
• Stop
• Next
• I see the clip (10 bars) with what I just heard including the change to key F

The only issue that I see now is that audio is doubled on playback since the app probably does not expect the AU MIDI to produce anything without MIDI input, but that's another thing. Are you doing anything different than my steps above?

Will test when I get a chance

gregsmith

@dwrae said:

@stormbeats said:
Agreed the Range tool needs a bit of work it does not highlight regions too well at moment

Can you please elaborate in which situations the Range tool (when Range is selected) does not highlight regions correctly please?

It’s hard to explain in words but does this screenshot help?

gregsmith

I also played a bit more and figured out the thing that’s slowing me down in arrange mode is copy and paste is not available in the same mode. I can long press and copy in scroll mode but not long press and paste. I can short press in range mode to copy and long press to paste. I can’t copy or paste at all in edit mode.

IMO you should be able to long press on a clip or range, then copy, and long press then paste in a blank spot in any mode. The only one it doesn’t make sense in is scroll mode but there’s no harm in it being there.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:

@dwrae said:

@Matt_Fletcher_2000 said:
Rozetta baseline self runs when you press play/record in its host.

It doesn’t seem to be printing midi in AEM (beyond the very first 16th of a bar). Maybe because there is no ‘input’ since it self runs.

What I did:

• Start the app
• Create instrument track (leave it on piano)
• Select AU MIDI -> Rozeta Bassline
• Tap on the first dot, it becomes selected
• Tap on the 3rd dot, it becomes selected
• Change the 3rd do to some other key
• Press record
• Let it play a couple of times, press F
• Stop
• Next
• I see the clip (10 bars) with what I just heard including the change to key F

The only issue that I see now is that audio is doubled on playback since the app probably does not expect the AU MIDI to produce anything without MIDI input, but that's another thing. Are you doing anything different than my steps above?

Will test when I get a chance

Seems to be working fine now to be honest. Tried with the factory piano and worked fine. Also then tried with Model 15 loaded and it printed the midi then too.

Maybe before it was an issue with the Rozetta AU and it just needed to be restarted.

Matt_Fletcher_2000

The only issue that I see now is that audio is doubled on playback since the app probably does not expect the AU MIDI to produce anything without MIDI input, but that's another thing. Are you doing anything different than my steps above?

This isn’t really an issue though is it? One just turns the au midi effect off for playback once the midi has been recorded.

rs2000

@JonLewis said:
@dwrae I think I have an onscreen keyboard bug? On my iPhone SE (iOS 11.2.5), when playing the in-app keyboard, I am getting a lot of dropped notes - well not exactly dropped notes but - if I hit a key and hold it for say half a second, then slide to the adjacent key, it often does not respond to that change of pitch and thinks I am still holding the first note. That is, say I hit C for an eighth note and then slide down to B without lifting my finger. More often than not, C continues to play. In fact, if I don’t lift my finger I can slide it all over the keyboard and it just holds the same note.

This does not happen if I only hold the first note a brief time - say a sixteenth note at 120bpm - then I can slide to other notes successfully.

It does not seem to correspond to things like higher-quality soundfonts - it happens with low size soundfonts too. It also happens regardless of whether I am recording or not. It seems like after a given note-touch lasts X tenths of a second, the keyboard assumes I am not going to change pitch anymore and interprets any continued touch as being in the same initial location (C in the above example).

Interesting. I do have an SE on iOS 11.4.1 and there's no way I could reproduce what you describe.
Funny enough, I've found another bug: Create a MIDI instrument track, open the piano keyboard, enable Sustain, tap Next to go back, then open the keyboard again. Sustain will be shown as disabled but it's actually still in effect. Only toggling Sustain on and off will disable it.

Edit: I'm able to reproduce it indeed. Hit and hold one key, tap and release a second key, then move your finger from the first key sideways. Nothing happens.

dwrae

@gregsmith said:
I also played a bit more and figured out the thing that’s slowing me down in arrange mode is copy and paste is not available in the same mode. I can long press and copy in scroll mode but not long press and paste. I can short press in range mode to copy and long press to paste. I can’t copy or paste at all in edit mode.

IMO you should be able to long press on a clip or range, then copy, and long press then paste in a blank spot in any mode. The only one it doesn’t make sense in is scroll mode but there’s no harm in it being there.

I'll add the paste option to the menu in Scroll mode as first item when something is in the clipboard

rs2000

@dwrae said:

@gregsmith said:
I also played a bit more and figured out the thing that’s slowing me down in arrange mode is copy and paste is not available in the same mode. I can long press and copy in scroll mode but not long press and paste. I can short press in range mode to copy and long press to paste. I can’t copy or paste at all in edit mode.

IMO you should be able to long press on a clip or range, then copy, and long press then paste in a blank spot in any mode. The only one it doesn’t make sense in is scroll mode but there’s no harm in it being there.

I'll add the paste option to the menu in Scroll mode as first item when something is in the clipboard

Good idea!