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Cakewalk - Momentum? Something new for iOS

135

Comments

  • I’m old fashioned; I like to own the software I’m using, not just rent it. Maybe the times are changing. But it’s just a few apps at the moment, I hope this trickle doesn’t turn into a flood. I have enough monthly payments coming out of my bank account as it is. If every piece of iOS music software I used on a regular basis moved to a subscription model, I’d have another 70+ monthly payments to worry about.

  • @Beathoven said:
    I’m old fashioned; I like to own the software I’m using, not just rent it. Maybe the times are changing. But it’s just a few apps at the moment, I hope this trickle doesn’t turn into a flood. I have enough monthly payments coming out of my bank account as it is. If every piece of iOS music software I used on a regular basis moved to a subscription model, I’d have another 70+ monthly payments to worry about.

    +1

    I only do subscriptions if I absolutely have to. I’m self-employed so I have no idea what my earnings will be each month. As a result I can’t rely on ‘rented’ software as I’ve no idea if I’ll be able to afford it, and I certainly don’t want automatic payments coming out of my bank account.

  • edited October 2017

    Wow, so much hate...

    I can help answer your questions about Momentum. Lots to go through here...

    Alex from Cakewalk

  • @alexwestner said:
    Wow, so much hate...

    I can help answer your questions about Momentum. Lots to go through here...

    Alex from Cakewalk

    To be fair, it's a damp squib of a product, with a controversial pricing model. Sorry if we don't sing hallelujah.

  • I think Alex, it's worth pointing out that @richardyot is one of the more polite, positive members of this forum.

    So you could be in for a rough ride....

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • @alexwestner said:
    Wow, so much hate...

    I can help answer your questions about Momentum. Lots to go through here...

    Alex from Cakewalk

    Think of it as tough love, and you might learn something from people who have been making music with mobile devices for years.

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

  • edited October 2017

    @alexwestner said:
    Wow, so much hate...

    I can help answer your questions about Momentum. Lots to go through here...

    Alex from Cakewalk

    This is probably the friendliest audio related forum you can find. If there are some extra features planned that have yet to be announced this would be a good time to mention them!

    I can't imagine other forums will go any easier on Cakewalk, and I wouldn't want to be in the firing line trying to market this product. That said the fact that you are in the thread at all is a positive step. I wish you luck :)

  • @telecharge said:

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

  • edited October 2017

    Alex you must understand - it is year 2017... there are available complete DAW’s on iOS , as so as little tools for quick inspiratuon sletches...

    Competition is massive.. people are used to work with feature rich apps on iOS...

    Maybe in 2011 people would be interested in Momentum, but today whole iOS musicmaking business is at comletely different stage...

    Small companies or even single freelance cdevelopers are able to deliver mindblowing complex apps (Beatmaker 3, or upcoming Nanostudio 2), and there are 3 main reasons why people are disappointed by Momentum ...

    • from big company like Cakewalk, people were expecting something like Studio One Mobile ... Which is very valid expectarion comsidering the fact that current top devices have same power as 2015 notebooks and some other desktop DAW companies alrady joined mobile daw board (Steinberg, Image Line, or Korg’s amazing apps)

    • people are disappointed by lack of upgrades / fixes for Z3TA+ iOS (including better optimalisation of UI for touch devices)

    • there is a lot tools on iOS designe for similiar type of use like Momentum (simple tools for quick ideas sketches) with more features for significantly smaller price ...

    Plus - current iOS stage is more and more about finishing whole track on device than just about “idea sketches and then move to desktop daw” ...

    Everybody was expecting that if Cakewalk will come wih somethinh big, it will
    be something big, app matching 2017 standarda and trends ... not app
    maching 2010 - 2011 standards and trends (which is no doubt momentum’s case)

    Sorry.. it’s sad to see such wasting of resources, i’m prett sure coders did their best job on that thing, but i see this as big fail of product management... maybe lack of proper research and lack of deeper knowledge about current iOS music apps industry and directions for next 2-3 years... Lack of ability predict where will iOS audio apps segment in next 2-3 years...

  • @Beathoven said:
    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

    I'm sure he's still taking it in and formulating his response(s). Alex has been a nice guy in my dealings with him.

    For some background, Cakewalk is owned by Gibson, and Alex is effectively running Cakewalk.

  • @alexwestner Welcome. Glad you're here.

    @Beathoven said:

    @telecharge said:

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

    Please keep comments focused on the product, not the human.

  • edited October 2017

    @alexwestner welcome man! I still love Z3TA and I’m one of the original adopters when It first came out on IOS. After submitting a request to your dev team, forgot the name of he guys, I truly appreciated so much when you guys made it possible for me to switch thru the presets by allowing the preset screen to remain open. This was huge for me as I was playing keys live at church during that time and Z3TA was my main live synth! Blew away every one in the worship team when I chose to bypass the Yamaha Motif sounds and used it only as a midi controller to play Z3TA!

    So again thank you and I’m wishing you’ll success in all you do.

    @alexwestner said:
    Wow, so much hate...

    I can help answer your questions about Momentum. Lots to go through here...

    Alex from Cakewalk

  • @syrupcore said:
    @alexwestner Welcome. Glad you're here.

    @Beathoven said:

    @telecharge said:

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

    Please keep comments focused on the product, not the human.

    +1

  • @richardyot said:

    @syrupcore said:
    @alexwestner Welcome. Glad you're here.

    @Beathoven said:

    @telecharge said:

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

    Please keep comments focused on the product, not the human.

    +1

    +1 :)

  • @telecharge said:

    @Beathoven said:
    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

    I'm sure he's still taking it in and formulating his response(s). Alex has been a nice guy in my dealings with him.

    For some background, Cakewalk is owned by Gibson, and Alex is effectively running Cakewalk.

    I was in the middle of something else, but just wanted to pop in and say hello. I'll start replying to all y'all, but will get called away again soon.

    This'll be a good time... Haha... Popcorn?

  • @dendy said:
    Alex you must understand - it is year 2017... there are available complete DAW’s on iOS , as so as little tools for quick inspiratuon sletches...

    Competition is massive.. people are used to work with feature rich apps on iOS...

    Maybe in 2011 people would be interested in Momentum, but today whole iOS musicmaking business is at comletely different stage...

    Small companies or even single freelance cdevelopers are able to deliver mindblowing complex apps (Beatmaker 3, or upcoming Nanostudio 2), and there are 3 main reasons why people are disappointed by Momentum ...

    • from big company like Cakewalk, people were expecting something like Studio One Mobile ... Which is very valid expectarion comsidering the fact that current top devices have same power as 2015 notebooks and some other desktop DAW companies alrady joined mobile daw board (Steinberg, Image Line, or Korg’s amazing apps)

    • people are disappointed by lack of upgrades / fixes for Z3TA+ iOS (including better optimalisation of UI for touch devices)

    • there is a lot tools on iOS designe for similiar type of use like Momentum (simple tools for quick ideas sketches) with more features for significantly smaller price ...

    Plus - current iOS stage is more and more about finishing whole track on device than just about “idea sketches and then move to desktop daw” ...

    Everybody was expecting that if Cakewalk will come wih somethinh big, it will
    be something big, app matching 2017 standarda and trends ... not app
    maching 2010 - 2011 standards and trends (which is no doubt momentum’s case)

    Sorry.. it’s sad to see such wasting of resources, i’m prett sure coders did their best job on that thing, but i see this as big fail of product management... maybe lack of proper research and lack of deeper knowledge about current iOS music apps industry and directions for next 2-3 years... Lack of ability predict where will iOS audio apps segment in next 2-3 years...

    You guys are all very focused on iOS, which is not the point of Momentum.

    Momentum is not an iOS app. It's a songwriting/music production platform.

    We're the only audio/music platform that runs natively on iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, as well as VST, AU and AAX plug-ins.

    I won't speak yet to your comment on our PM failure, as I have stacks of customer interviews we did all throughout the process to validate the design of the platform and the business model for it.

    If all you see is a 4-track subscription-based iOS app, then, yes, I could see why you'd be shocked and appalled, but that's not what Momentum is. Let me try to help us understand what it is first, and then we can pick it apart. :)

  • @BlueGreenSpiral said:

    @alexwestner said:
    Wow, so much hate...

    I can help answer your questions about Momentum. Lots to go through here...

    Alex from Cakewalk

    This is probably the friendliest audio related forum you can find. If there are some extra features planned that have yet to be announced this would be a good time to mention them!

    I can't imagine other forums will go any easier on Cakewalk, and I wouldn't want to be in the firing line trying to market this product. That said the fact that you are in the thread at all is a positive step. I wish you luck :)

    I hope you're right about this being friendly! Thanks for welcoming me.

    Extra features... well, we do have inter-app audio working, but we still need to work out the UX, which is why it didn't make 1.0. Want to make sure we do it right. We're also prioritizing collaboration next for musicians working with bands, or producers working with artists.

  • @telecharge said:

    @alexwestner said:
    Wow, so much hate...

    I can help answer your questions about Momentum. Lots to go through here...

    Alex from Cakewalk

    Think of it as tough love, and you might learn something from people who have been making music with mobile devices for years.

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

    I'm sure I'll learn something! I hope to learn a lot from you guys.

    That is a good question, though, and one decided before I re-joined the company last November. The "easy" answer is the business just wasn't there. I remember that from working at iZotope last and talking to tons of iOS app developers--unless you're a 1- or 2- person company, there just isn't enough $ in selling apps.

    Imagine the same effort that companies used to spend developing a plug-in and selling for $100 or $200, now goes into selling an app for $10 or $20--even though the market is arguably a lot bigger... when you open the kimono and look at the numbers, well, the market may be theoretically bigger, but it's pretty much the same crew buying plug-ins an apps.

    Anyway... yeah, you have a great point. Let me see what it'll take us to fix that Z3TA+ preset issue.

    All I can say about Momentum is that it's a platform, not a single app, and the company believes in it, and that it has a future. We have a good-sized team of folks dedicated to it, and we're already planning upcoming releases.

  • @syrupcore said:
    @alexwestner Welcome. Glad you're here.

    @Beathoven said:

    @telecharge said:

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

    Please keep comments focused on the product, not the human.

    ???

    My comment was not exactly harsh or insulting. As someone who paid for Z3TA+ and ScratchPad (including all the sound packs), I feel the question @telecharge posed is a pertinent one and deserves an answer. I’m sure I’m not the only customer of Cakewalk feeling somewhat aggrieved.

  • @MonzoPro said:

    @Beathoven said:
    I’m old fashioned; I like to own the software I’m using, not just rent it. Maybe the times are changing. But it’s just a few apps at the moment, I hope this trickle doesn’t turn into a flood. I have enough monthly payments coming out of my bank account as it is. If every piece of iOS music software I used on a regular basis moved to a subscription model, I’d have another 70+ monthly payments to worry about.

    +1

    I only do subscriptions if I absolutely have to. I’m self-employed so I have no idea what my earnings will be each month. As a result I can’t rely on ‘rented’ software as I’ve no idea if I’ll be able to afford it, and I certainly don’t want automatic payments coming out of my bank account.

    OK, that's fair.

    We have a $29.99/year plan, and you can set that so it doesn't automatically renew (no surprises in 12 months).

    Also, you can pop in and out anytime on the monthly plan.

  • @syrupcore said:

    @Telstar5 said:

    Boycott


    @richardyot said:
    But I wouldn't download this app if it was completely free, because in a crowded market it doesn't really offer anything new.

    Maybe the best "boycott", in the 'send a message' terms anyway, would be if we all downloaded and then deleted. They're going to be looking at two sales metrics: number of downloads and number of subscriptions. Since number of downloads of a free music app is basically meaningless and hitting a huge, dropbox-sized subscription number is impossible for any paid music app the most important number for them will be: "Of the people who downloaded, what percentage converted into paid subscribers?" Download and delete will skew that number.

    Shh, don't tell Cakewalk? ;)

    We have a bunch of metrics we're looking at. These aren't the only two.

    Again, if you look at Momentum as an app, you've got the wrong idea. I agree if this were just an iOS app it should be free.

  • edited October 2017

    @Tritonman said:

    Looks like Cakewalk is getting the big heave ho ! Good they deserve it, the pricks!

    Friendly?

  • @alexwestner said:
    @Tritonman said:

    Looks like Cakewalk is getting the big heave ho ! Good they deserve it, the pricks!

    Friendly?

    See, that was a lot harsher. And insulting.

  • @Zen210507 said:
    Sometimes I wonder if apps like this are market researched even a little, or if some exec just thinks he’s come up with a great plan and instructs the minions.

    Tons of research went into this platform, working directly with customers from our target market. I think there's more potential in this product than we're conveying right now.

  • @alexwestner said:
    Friendly?

    International audience. It's a term of endearment. :smiley:

  • @Beathoven said:
    ???

    My comment was not exactly harsh or insulting. As someone who paid for Z3TA+ and ScratchPad (including all the sound packs), I feel the question @telecharge posed is a pertinent one and deserves an answer. I’m sure I’m not the only customer of Cakewalk feeling somewhat aggrieved.

    He's just being a mod -- trying to set the tone and be welcoming to developers. :smile:

    Anyone who's spent time on this forum should recognize you as good people. :+1:

  • @alexwestner said:
    @Tritonman said:

    Looks like Cakewalk is getting the big heave ho ! Good they deserve it, the pricks!

    Friendly?

    Don't be so thin-skinned. I'm sure you're a good guy who doesn't deserve this shit, but so far you've done nothing but repeat bullet points from a marketing plan. "It's not an app, it's a platform." Please talk to us like we're musicians having a beer together. What do you do with this Platform That Is Not an App?

  • @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    The very arrogance and incompetence this company has shown has been taken to new heights.

    1. Yet another f-cking subscription-only pricing model? $2.99/month isn’t the worst, but by god it isn’t worth the hassle of keeping track of just for a few paltry functions you can do in most other apps out there to one extent or another. Stop trying to make this shit subscription-only pricing model a thing! Offer a more expensive one-time payment option too!

    2. However, I wouldn’t pay those thieving twats anymore money anyways. Until Cakewalk pulls their heads out their collective arses and updates z3ta+ to fix the preset export bug, they can whistle Dixie if they think they’ll get a farthing out of me.

    3. And it’s not like I didn’t try to make them aware of the issues. Everytime I wrote them, they claimed z3ta+ is on the backburner, that they’ve no plans to fix it. I guess they were too busy trying to find a way to build an app they thought they could milk us money for.

    4. Subscription or not, I don’t trust Cakewalk to keep updating this app. They’ll probably abandon this one too in time to come.

    Arrogant, incompetent, twats, heads in our arses... we're all grown-ups, right?

    That said, I appreciate your anger and I'm sorry that Cakewalk has hurt you in the past.

This discussion has been closed.