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Cakewalk - Momentum? Something new for iOS

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Comments

  • @alexwestner said:

    @BiancaNeve said:

    @alexwestner said:

    @ElektrikDiva said:
    It’s hard to get excited about any new Cakewalk release until the Z3ta iOS app gets the love it deserves. Until that app gets updated I would just be afraid that I just bought some more abandonware again. There apps are not cheap so I expect at least some regular maintainance and some regular updates. And no I am not high maintainance. I think those are reasonable requests to expect for my buck.

    Understood, looking into it again.

    It’s not just iOS where cakewalk have left products hanging. What happened to music creator 7 ? Now the link on your website goes to Sonar Home Studio.

    We had both Music Creator and Home Studio, and the two products and the market started to converge in a way that started to cause confusion, so we dropped the price of Home Studio to match Music Creator, and focusing customers on the one product.

    But didn’t offer customers a way to migrate. As far as I can see as a music creator owner.

  • @Trueyorky said:
    @alexwestner welcome, good to hear from you and best of luck with this but I can’t see anything of benefit to me. As an iOS musician using my iPad in a closed environment with an incredible array of music apps at my disposal then I guess I am certainly not your target market for Momentum.

    ps by all means you can try to convince me otherwise, and any updates for Z3TA+ and ScratchPad would be more than welcome :)

    Yup, you are probably not the target market! :)

  • @BiancaNeve said:

    @alexwestner said:

    @BiancaNeve said:

    @alexwestner said:

    @ElektrikDiva said:
    It’s hard to get excited about any new Cakewalk release until the Z3ta iOS app gets the love it deserves. Until that app gets updated I would just be afraid that I just bought some more abandonware again. There apps are not cheap so I expect at least some regular maintainance and some regular updates. And no I am not high maintainance. I think those are reasonable requests to expect for my buck.

    Understood, looking into it again.

    It’s not just iOS where cakewalk have left products hanging. What happened to music creator 7 ? Now the link on your website goes to Sonar Home Studio.

    We had both Music Creator and Home Studio, and the two products and the market started to converge in a way that started to cause confusion, so we dropped the price of Home Studio to match Music Creator, and focusing customers on the one product.

    But didn’t offer customers a way to migrate. As far as I can see as a music creator owner.

    I see. By migrate, do you mean loading projects, or do you mean special discount price?

  • @Beathoven said:

    @syrupcore said:
    @alexwestner Welcome. Glad you're here.

    @Beathoven said:

    @telecharge said:

    First question: Why should we buy any Cakewalk app when it looks like you've abandoned your previous apps?

    Hmmmm. Looks like you’ve stumped him with that one.

    Please keep comments focused on the product, not the human.

    ???

    My comment was not exactly harsh or insulting. As someone who paid for Z3TA+ and ScratchPad (including all the sound packs), I feel the question @telecharge posed is a pertinent one and deserves an answer. I’m sure I’m not the only customer of Cakewalk feeling somewhat aggrieved.

    You're totally right. It wasn't particularly harsh or insulting. But this thread being what it is so far, thought it'd be good to say the human vs product differentiation out loud sooner than later. Not entirely directed at you or anything.

  • @ExAsperis99 said:

    @alexwestner said:
    @Tritonman said:

    Looks like Cakewalk is getting the big heave ho ! Good they deserve it, the pricks!

    Friendly?

    Don't be so thin-skinned. I'm sure you're a good guy who doesn't deserve this shit, but so far you've done nothing but repeat bullet points from a marketing plan. "It's not an app, it's a platform." Please talk to us like we're musicians having a beer together. What do you do with this Platform That Is Not an App?

    I'm not being thin-skinned, but imagine if you had a room full of people attacking your music.

    Well, yeah, I guess that's what being in a band is all about?!

    Anyway...

    I'm not trying to repeat bullets from a marketing plan, I'm just trying to explain to you directly what the product is and isn't.

    Platform = iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, VST, AU, AAX, all native, all your projects automatically sync'd to the cloud. Something to build off. Something to connect to other apps and products and devices.

    Audiobus to me is a platform. It connects and creates an ecosystem of iOS apps working together.

    An individual iOS synth, though, is a simple app, not a platform.

  • @alexwestner said:

    @Trueyorky said:

    @alexwestner said:

    Most musicians we spoke to aren't even aware of the awesome toys available on iOS, which I found surprising.

    Nice - but these are NOT toys. Like many here, I’ve been using iOS apps since 2011 so we have come a long way and we feel we are way beyond toys !

    I totally agree! I meant "toys" in a positive way! Like, heck SoundToys the plug-in company.

    No worries, just a little sensitive as quite a few have used it to label iOS music over the years. It even inspired a track back in the day...

  • edited October 2017

    Hello Alex,
    So I have a icloud account and drop box I can already drag any audio file from either of those cloud services directly into my Cubase tracks. When I record in my ios DAW I make sure all the tracks start at the left marker so they will all line up perfectly in my DAW. But if I use your service I have to load a plugin then drag the audio from plugin to my tracks. I fail to see how this is an advantage. So any project I do in AUM, Cubasis, Auria Pro, BM3, MTDAW can be saved to the cloud and dragged onto a track. I don't have to pay any monthly fees and can have as many tracks as my device can handle.

  • edited October 2017

    @Zen210507 said:
    This forum is the single best market research resource for IOS music you could wish for

    It's really not. We're like modular synth builders in 1994–"way out ahead". Or model train builders in 2017–"super niche". Take yer pick. :)

    There have been over a billion iOS devices sold (as of 2015). There are millions of musicians in the world. There are a few hundred active(ish) members of this forum. In the venn diagram of the market you're describing, we would not be visible without zooming way way way in.

    Not saying we aren't worth listening to! But we're hardly 'the best' market research resource for a company that primarily makes desktop software.

  • @syrupcore said:

    @Zen210507 said:

    @alexwestner said:
    Tons of research went into this platform, working directly with customers from our target market. I think there's more potential in this product than we're conveying right now.

    >

    So, your research is really telling you that musicians want to subscribe to something that people here are saying they find poor, don’t need, and won’t buy?

    This forum is the single best market research resource for IOS music you could wish for, including everyone from enthusiastic newcomers to those who have been making music for decades. Yet you have clearly not made use of it, and apparently don’t even have an app, but a platform! I’m sorry, but this is a ridiculous claim.

    It's really not. We're like modular synth builders in 1994. There have been over a billion iOS devices sold (as of 2015). There are millions of musicians in the world. There are a few hundred active(ish) members of this forum. In the venn diagram of the market you're describing, we would not be visible without zooming way way way in.

    Not saying we aren't worth listening to! But we're hardly 'the best' market research resource for a company that primarily makes desktop software.

    Maybe not, but any brand worth their salt needs to pay attention to how well this site ranks in search engines.

    Active members may be relatively few, but I'm sure there are many more potential customers browsing these threads when researching a purchase.

    Whether or not feedback provided is any use in making a product better is up for dispute, but the marketing potential is huge for a canny developer. And what better PR than to see a responsive, active developer and lots of great feedback.

    This thread is already third place in Google for 'cakewalk momentum'.

  • @MonzoPro said:
    Maybe not, but any brand worth their salt needs to pay attention to how well this site ranks in search engines.

    Active members may be relatively few, but I'm sure there are many more potential customers browsing these threads when researching a purchase.

    Whether or not feedback provided is any use in making a product better is up for dispute, but the marketing potential is huge for a canny developer. And what better PR than to see a responsive, active developer and lots of great feedback.

    This thread is already third place in Google for 'cakewalk momentum'.

    All very good points. Might be how Alex found us!

  • The Audiobus forum has been mentioned a few times in Momentum threads on Cakewalk's forums.

    Propellerheads', now Allihoopla's, Take Creative Voice Recorder has been out for 3.5 years. It seems to me if there was a demand to get the recodings into a DAW, they would have seized on it. Perhaps they missed any opportunity?

    https://itunes.apple.com/app/id887834536

    Just thinking out loud here, not trying to cast aspersions in any direction.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • And still this far into the thread and I have not a clue what exactly Momentum is or does. You have to feel for Alex: Apologist for Cakewalk is a job I’m not sure even Sean Spicer could do.

  • edited October 2017

    I can totally see the value proposition in seamless cloud syncing between devices and between devices and desktop/laptop. It's one area where iOS music apps are bafflingly (near) absent, despite apps for other iOS-based creative pursuits integrating this functionality years ago.

    I'd happily pay for it. I'd pay $30 per app for several of my most-used apps, as a one-off IAP.

    I think if the goal here is a subscription based service then the decision to build in the subscription from the beginning is sound. The recent Ulysses debacle demonstrates that switching a product from paid (and pricey at that) to subscription hurts the users and developers. If this platform reaches a state where it's compelling for users to the tune of $30/yr, everybody wins.

    Personally, I only do subscriptions or PAYG for apps/services I know I'll use many times a month. At the moment that's cloud storage and sync, music, and mobile. Everything else is buy once or ignore. So this app is not for me.

  • edited October 2017

    ok me summarize it..

    Momentum is not iOS app, it’s platform .. iOS app is only one of it’s apps and not key one..

    it’s not aimed on experienced ios musicians but more on people which are not interested in ios musicmakind at all, or just a tiny bit

    then.. sounds to me.. like this is thread about nothing :-) wasted 5 pages of discussion about app for which target audience is basically nobody who is using ios more seriously for music production, definitely nobody here at this forum...

    that’s funny missunderstanding :-)

    Now my question is - is there any plan in Cakewalk to DO some serious iOS musicmaking app ? Studio One Mobile, or something similiar for which we here, at audiobys forums, WILL be target audience ?

  • Funny one this, I guess the majority of users here aren't really the target market for such a thing given we tend to be iOS-centric.

    Props to Alex for sticking his head above the parapet though. I hope it takes off in the way envisioned, I hate to see software development work wasted if nothing else.

  • @ExAsperis99 said:
    And still this far into the thread and I have not a clue what exactly Momentum is or does. You have to feel for Alex: Apologist for Cakewalk is a job I’m not sure even Sean Spicer could do.

    :D :D :D :D

  • This thread caused me to download it. Not sure where it would fit it in in my life. But I’ll keep monitoring it. Cakewalk got me into production so there’s a sentimental aspect.

  • @alexwestner said:

    @ALB said:
    Ok - seems like it’s for people who are not very knowledgeable about what an iPad can already do. I guess if someone did already know, they would use cheaper, better-featured alternatives. That doesn’t fit this forum. I don't want to be nasty, but it seems like it's for suckers.

    Time to move on, nothing to see here.

    So, anyone not as knowledgable as you is just a sucker? How is that not nasty? I think that's an insult to a ton of musicians out there who just don't have the interest to invest in doing a deep dive about iOS synths and DAWs

    Yes, anyone who buys your product out of ignorance of what else is out there is indeed a sucker. That is the nasty truth.

    Frankly, you don’t have to be a genius or a shut-in with a huge amount of time on your hands to make something decent or record “ideas” on an IPad. It’s pretty easy. Maybe if you had educated yourself, you would know this.

  • @alexwestner

    If you make it through one week, the first week, on this forum, you a real gangsta. Gearslutz got nothing on this forum lol. Good luck!

  • @alexwestner said:

    @jwmmakerofmusic said:
    The very arrogance and incompetence this company has shown has been taken to new heights.

    1. Yet another f-cking subscription-only pricing model? $2.99/month isn’t the worst, but by god it isn’t worth the hassle of keeping track of just for a few paltry functions you can do in most other apps out there to one extent or another. Stop trying to make this shit subscription-only pricing model a thing! Offer a more expensive one-time payment option too!

    2. However, I wouldn’t pay those thieving twats anymore money anyways. Until Cakewalk pulls their heads out their collective arses and updates z3ta+ to fix the preset export bug, they can whistle Dixie if they think they’ll get a farthing out of me.

    3. And it’s not like I didn’t try to make them aware of the issues. Everytime I wrote them, they claimed z3ta+ is on the backburner, that they’ve no plans to fix it. I guess they were too busy trying to find a way to build an app they thought they could milk us money for.

    4. Subscription or not, I don’t trust Cakewalk to keep updating this app. They’ll probably abandon this one too in time to come.

    Arrogant, incompetent, twats, heads in our arses... we're all grown-ups, right?

    That said, I appreciate your anger and I'm sorry that Cakewalk has hurt you in the past.

    Yeah, Alex, “we’re all grown-ups, right?”. Oh my, looks like there’s a personally insulted human underneath that corporate shill shell after all. Maybe for future reference, tag me in the explanation of your product instead of trying to get in a subtle quip back at me? I mean, you’re supposed to be the professional “grown-up” spokesperson for Cakewalk, right? Well done. ;)

    Anyways, it’s nice of you to “appreciate my anger and apologise”, but those are just cold, corporate copypasta words. See, actions speak louder than words. Maybe my actions wouldn’t be so “immature” if your company bothered to care enough about your iOS customer base to update z3ta+ to fix that preset export bug! Your company let z3ta+ rot for over two and a half years. That is utterly laughable! Everytime I wrote you people on Facebook, I always either got “it’s on the backburner” or “there are no plans to update it”. It was always a brush off with no cares given about the iOS abandonware nor the iOS customer base.

    Now with all that out of the way, I read your descriptions of your Momentum platform. I’m not really that impressed once I understood what it’s all about. I have two storage subscriptions that are worth keeping track of. Dropbox is one of them. iCloud is the other. iCloud keeps things within Apple’s ecosystem but allows 2TB storage. Dropbox allows 1TB, but it’s cross platform. Pair these with the likes of AudioShare, Documents, while using Files to manage everything, and it’s all pretty straightforward. Hell, I even made everything work cross platform between my PC, phone, and iPad Air 2 back when my phone was an LG Volt (Android). Sure, Momentum might be pretty slick, but I have many more flexible options and solutions to doing things.

    Now, if you really, REALLY want to work on repairing the divide between your company and your understandably disgruntled iOS customer base, update the iOS z3ta+ app sometime before December of this year. You don’t even need to make it Audiobus 3 compatible nor have AUv3 functionality. Drop whatever else you are doing and just fix the bugs. December 1st should be MORE than enough time to give iOS z3ta+ the TLC it needs.

  • edited October 2017

    @syrupcore said:
    Not saying we aren't worth listening to! But we're hardly 'the best' market research resource for a company that primarily makes desktop software.

    I meant the best resource for IOS based music.

    If research shows the company that desktop users are clamouring to pay for what we can do free and far better, then good luck to them.

    Personally, I would much rather support developers who respect IOS music makers and produce great apps, Ampify/Novation, Cubasis, Brambos, and others.

  • edited October 2017

    @alexwestner , please update and fix Z3TA and make it iOS 11 ready, until then I am not buying into anything from you guys.
    Is there any video on Momentum.

  • @Zen210507 said:
    Personally, I would much rather support developers who respect IOS music makers and produce great apps, Ampify/Novation, Cubasis, Brambos, and others.

    Thanks for the shout out. In Alex' defense, I understand what he is saying and indeed, most people in this thread are likely not the target audience.

    It seems to be that Momentum is not about making music on an iOS device per se, but about providing Cakewalk users a mobile extension to their existing workflow - regardless of whatever mobile device they have within arm's reach at that moment.

    Without going into the business model, I think the concept is sound (pun not intended). It's about turning every device around you into an ad-hoc recording tool that seamlessly stores recordings and offloads into Cakewalk, without the artist needing to do lots of research into 3rd party music apps and how to fit those into their existing workflow. In that sense it's more a 'service' than a 'product' in the traditional sense of the word.

    That's my interpretation of the proposition and I don't think it's as bad as this thread makes it out to be.

    :)

  • All this shit for an app! Lol!
    Sorry guys,but....you are talking of an app!!
    Why so much anger? It's not important!
    Relax ,and keep on having fun!!

  • @alexwestner said:
    Imagine the same effort that companies used to spend developing a plug-in and selling for $100 or $200, now goes into selling an app for $10 or $20--even though the market is arguably a lot bigger... when you open the kimono and look at the numbers, well, the market may be theoretically bigger, but it's pretty much the same crew buying plug-ins an apps.

    I think there is a lot of truth in this, and iOS is a very difficult platform for developers because of the expected pricing and also the difficulty of offering paid upgrades (probably an even bigger problem, you have to update your app for free forever).

    However Korg seem to have been successful with Gadget, it sells for a decent price and once you factor in the IAPs it's actually pretty expensive, on a par with the newly created desktop version in fact. Yet people buy it, because it offers them a lot of sounds and a slick workflow.

    Anyway, well done for keeping calm in these choppy waters :)

  • edited October 2017

    Hey Alex, see about getting Z3ta updated and get back to us concerning momentum after that. Until then Cakewalk is just another dirty word.

  • I think this thread has already gone off the rails a bit so veering off topic is probably ok :)

    I'm wondering if there are any other oldies here that used the original z3ta? Before the + was added. I'm going back a while with this but my first track I considered finished was based on a patch from that original version, 98% sure the patch was called "dancing oscillators". The newer versions of z3ta+ didn't contain the patch. Got nostalgic with all the z3ta talk, went browsing and found the synth was originally made by rgc audio, that company seems to have completely disappeared now? I would love to load it up and try to recreate the track, took me months and I still remember the notes I used. I'm guessing this is an impossible task but would be very happy to be wrong!

  • @BlueGreenSpiral said:
    I think this thread has already gone off the rails a bit so veering off topic is probably ok :)

    I'm wondering if there are any other oldies here that used the original z3ta? Before the + was added. I'm going back a while with this but my first track I considered finished was based on a patch from that original version, 98% sure the patch was called "dancing oscillators". The newer versions of z3ta+ didn't contain the patch. Got nostalgic with all the z3ta talk, went browsing and found the synth was originally made by rgc audio, that company seems to have completely disappeared now? I would love to load it up and try to recreate the track, took me months and I still remember the notes I used. I'm guessing this is an impossible task but would be very happy to be wrong!

    I believe you're referring to Z3TA+ Classic. It's included with Sonar Professional and Platinum. It was also given away in the past as magware, so if you've bought any computer music type of magazines in recent years, you might want to see if you got a copy with a download.

    Also, rgc: audio was acquired by Cakewalk.

  • edited October 2017

    @flo26 said:
    All this shit for an app! Lol!
    Sorry guys,but....you are talking of an app!!
    Why so much anger? It's not important!
    Relax ,and keep on having fun!!

    :+1:

This discussion has been closed.