tonestack is wayyyyy better than bias/jamup

Briandandrig

@fprintf said:
I see from @High5denied that he's mostly into metal. My guitar is built for that sort of tone, an Ibanez RG570, but after all these years I'm not into it... I now prefer to play classic rock (Eagles, Floyd, Boston). I have to find a series of settings in ToneStack that let's me emulate the classic tones because I'm not in a position to buy a new guitar.

I wonder, for those who don't like TS, perhaps it is just a mismatch between expectations and the way it is designed? Perhaps TS is more oriented to high gain, high distortion whereas the other apps are better built for a smooth toned overdrive/blues amp emulation?

I don't know, I still think my ear isn't good enough to discern the difference. Plus I'm invested in ToneStack so have a natural bias (pun intended).

Tone stack gets some awesome classic rock sounds. Definitely not the metal only amp sim. the stereo Delays and Reverbs are amazing for Floyd tones. Can definitely get a nice Shine on your crazy diamond tone

Briandandrig

@High5denied said:

@Briandandrig said:

@High5denied said:

@Tritonman said:
For example of different strokes , I absolutely loathe Tonestack and never got on with it after several tries and finally just deleted it. Nothing sounded all that great when I compared it to Jam Up pro and Bias.

I'm not to the point of loathing TS. But, since I play mostly metal, Bias FX with Bias Amp, nothing comes close to it. The distortions sound REAL. Tonestack distortions sound digital/fake/crappy. Now, TS effects, those are top notch, and sound mint. I love the Tonecloud in Positive Grid apps. I can download a tone, and then tweak it to what I want. Sometimes much easier than starting from scratch. Also, I can upload my patches, which are quite awesome by the way... .... For everyone else to enjoy! lol......

That being said, I do love THM in Auria, Ampkit has its moments, and heck even Amplitude. The only two apps that come close to Bias though, for Thrash, metal, death metal and such are AmpOne, and ToneBridge.

But, I am also glad we have options, and.that you have found something that works for you. If I were to start a thread like this, it would say: Bias FX is waaaaaaaaay better than TS for the style of music I play.

but i love metal. I cannot for the life of me get a good tight djenty tone from Bias and Jamup.

I actually have found bias amps sound best inside of tonestack as IAA with another IAA for fiddlicator to load IRs

Ya, I can't remember much of what JamUp sounds like, I used to use it exclusively. But since Bias FX came out, not so much. I think to my ears, it did sound better than TS. I know when I make a preset for Bias FX, I usually say in the description, No djent here, lol....... Just some good ol' 80's thrash-Death Metal, Power, Hair.... 90's and New wave thrash metal tones.

I don't really care for the way Bias Amps sounds, unless it's run with Bias FX. Then it sounds incredible. I wish Bias FX's....FX pedals were better, like Tonestacks. I wish TS's distortion pedals were better, like Bias. But, when I play Rock, or classic rock, or worship music for church, or some mellow stuff, Bias FX still works great for me.

I have everything Tonestack and Bias FX/Amp have to offer. I've spent a lot of time, trying to dial in a decent Metal tone with Tonestack, Garageband, Amplitude, OverLoud, Ampkit(though with Ampkit and Overloud, I've been close)........Nothing sounds good/real/heavy/thick/full/chuggy.....for metal. And...........In Bias FX, I can create a really good sounding Metal tone in about a minute. (I've gotten pretty good feedback from users of the tones I've created) Still haven't been able to in the others. And, I don't think I've really heard any that have convinced me, except for AmpOne, that they sound good. Well, Tonebridge is actually pretty dang good as well. No tweaking needed.

I am not by all means saying TS is no good. I do like to use it from time to time. But, mostly I use Bias FX. Even if I want to play something besides metal. I have a Surf guitar preset that is exceptional for playing The beach boys stuff. Sounds so good. Just hit download, and BAM, it was there for me to use.

Anyway, I know you said you couldn't disagree with me more, but you might after reading what I just wrote. and......I think, really I'm right. I don't know Jack shit about Midi, but I know a good metal tone when I hear one.

Ok, so.that last paragraph was just me being a funny ....So please don't take it to heart.

I feel like this is reminiscent of the Auria VS Cubasis debate. But, with this one, if I could actually hear a decent metal tone out of TS, I could be convinced it's possible, but still wouldn't want to take the time it would take me to create it.

I think maybe the knobs and level settings are different from app to app. I am going to do more testing this weekend.

As far as using these apps together that can be easily achieved @High5denied

in AUM or within Tonestack you just build your chain. Distortion and boosts arent really stereo so you can put them before Bias Amp in the chain. Then Tonestack Reverbs and delays etcx in stereo post Bias Amp.

I do this in AUM:

Jamup Dirt boxes (make sure amp is turned off in chain)-> Bias Amp -> tonestack FX.

Briandandrig

you can even stick fiddlicator between Bias amp and tonestack to have your FX after the cab

audiblevideo

Any one of you boffins bother to turn of inbuilt FX in apps like GeoShred and (re)build your own FX chains, or are we all hardware guitar players?

Briandandrig

this is what it looks like for me lately.

Briandandrig

@audiblevideo said:
Any one of you boffins bother to turn of inbuilt FX in apps like GeoShred and (re)build your own FX chains, or are we all hardware guitar players?

Never played with geoshred. I play my analog guitar and am always trying to find more tones available to me than i can afford in the analog world.

audiblevideo

@Briandandrig said:

@audiblevideo said:
Any one of you boffins bother to turn of inbuilt FX in apps like GeoShred and (re)build your own FX chains, or are we all hardware guitar players?

Never played with geoshred. I play my analog guitar and am always trying to find more tones available to me than i can afford in the analog world.

Well iOS is a good place to start. Have you mucked about with any of the stand alone FX like flux:FX? Or any of apesoft apps? Those are good ones

Telefunky

it depends a lot on personal taste and what drives the output (cans, speakers, monitors etc)
BIAS/JamUp feature exactly the same sound engine, but may come out differently for BIAS can alter the cabinet and has an additional eq at the end of the chain.
JamUp probably uses the default cab fot the respective amp model.

There are 2 versions of that soundengine - the older one handles clean to crunch classic tones better, while the current version seems to be improved for high-gain and metal better, but I didn't check fully yet (have to transfer some amps to the old version).

I still have DSP engine 237 on an iPad running IOS 7, while it's 872 on my Air-2
(the number is under support info in settings - just to mention, there's nothing to change about it anyway)

Tonestack seems to perform reasonable well on live equipment (from what I've read).
For studio appliances the sound is unnaturally brittle and sizzling imh ears.
Reverb/delay effects are plain rubbish in both TS and JU, with the exception of the 63 Spring Reverb in JamUp (which is surprisingly good) and the distortion pedals (in case you consider them effects)
That fake IR spring in TS is a joke, the reverbs are tinny as hell.

I'm not much into metal and highgain, but like the 5153 in BIAS a lot.
Whenever I find a track of a vintage tube amp, I listen carefully - and that's my benchmark for the emulations.

Briandandrig

@audiblevideo said:

@Briandandrig said:

@audiblevideo said:
Any one of you boffins bother to turn of inbuilt FX in apps like GeoShred and (re)build your own FX chains, or are we all hardware guitar players?

Never played with geoshred. I play my analog guitar and am always trying to find more tones available to me than i can afford in the analog world.

Well iOS is a good place to start. Have you mucked about with any of the stand alone FX like flux:FX? Or any of apesoft apps? Those are good ones

I have the holderness apps. They are pretty awesome. The stereo designer is cool and crystalline is an amazing reverb.

Briandandrig

@Telefunky said:
it depends a lot on personal taste and what drives the output (cans, speakers, monitors etc)
BIAS/JamUp feature exactly the same sound engine, but may come out differently for BIAS can alter the cabinet and has an additional eq at the end of the chain.
JamUp probably uses the default cab fot the respective amp model.

There are 2 versions of that soundengine - the older one handles clean to crunch classic tones better, while the current version seems to be improved for high-gain and metal better, but I didn't check fully yet (have to transfer some amps to the old version).

I still have DSP engine 237 on an iPad running IOS 7, while it's 872 on my Air-2
(the number is under support info in settings - just to mention, there's nothing to change about it anyway)

Tonestack seems to perform reasonable well on live equipment (from what I've read).
For studio appliances the sound is unnaturally brittle and sizzling imh ears.
Reverb/delay effects are plain rubbish in both TS and JU, with the exception of the 63 Spring Reverb in JamUp (which is surprisingly good) and the distortion pedals (in case you consider them effects)
That fake IR spring in TS is a joke, the reverbs are tinny as hell.

I'm not much into metal and highgain, but like the 5153 in BIAS a lot.
Whenever I find a track of a vintage tube amp, I listen carefully - and that's my benchmark for the emulations.

I use jamup only for the drive and dirt pedals and i send it into BIAS.

Briandandrig

for the Bias users. Have you purchased the expansions? Do the different preamps i.e. glassy, crunch, and insane,. make a difference from the standard preamp options?

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@audiblevideo said:
Any one of you boffins bother to turn of inbuilt FX in apps like GeoShred and (re)build your own FX chains, or are we all hardware guitar players?

I've never felt the need. Geoshred has a pretty great built-in effects chain, plus there is all the stuff you can do with the control surface to add life and movement to those effects while you're playing.

My only complaints are that I have gotten a little static out of it on the old Ipad (not yet on the new one, but I haven't pushed it that much yet). Also, you can only have one instance of each effect, but that's not usually a problem.

Will

@DCJ said:
Tonestack has made me happy in a way that these other amp sims have not so I wholeheartedly agree.

Same here. Beyond sims, you can coax a whole lot of interesting out of Tonestack's effects. That said, I think Jamup sounds very good for lots of things and it I find the UI easier to use.

JeffChasteen

@mistercharlie said:
I also love ToneStack. I use the recorder quite often too, and the tape recorder is also good for playing back background jam tracks. I prefer this over using another app to play them because ToneStack offers independent volume control.

I use its 8 track recorder for probably 90% of my recordings. It's just so straightforward.

Panthemusicalgoat

I think tonestack overall runs better and has the best interface and I like the sound better all around but I will admit that jamup/bias distortion pedals do sound warmer. Not sure if TS is gonna ever update their algorithm at all but supposedly there is an update coming at some point in the future. You should visit the yonac forums and make suggestions. They've definitely taken a few of my requests. My suggestions at this point would be

more melodic/analogue sounding distortions

dynamic range could be better. Feels like it's hard to hit super soft notes sometimes and there should be less/more distortion response with volume change.

Add some more supraprawn fizz style effects (simulates broken tubes, check that amp out. I really like it)

Map cc to presets (switch patches on the fly)

IR loader (i use finddlecator but IAA is a pain)

Other than that I'm completely satisfied with tonestack vs other sims

Thoughts?

Panthemusicalgoat

@supanorton said:

I've found that each of the guitar apps I have (AmpliTube, AmpKit, Bias, BiasFX, Flying Haggis, ToneStack) and the Auria plugins (THM and Saturn with MicroWarmer and Fab Filters)) all have their own special something. I'm glad I have options.

I couldn't agree more. Actually was kinda surprised at gadget guitar sim I just tried. Some of the punk rock tones are really cool.

wim

Yeh. I wanted to hate Gadget’s amp sym and just couldn’t do it.

JeffChasteen

@wim said:
Yeh. I wanted to hate Gadget’s amp sym and just couldn’t do it.

I'm with you guys.
I am not Gadget's biggest fan, and was not expecting much, but I was wrong.

Redo1

Yeah agree tonestack is awesome but the distortions are not great. If they could fix those up then totally awesome app.

OscarSouth

Always wanted to get one/many of these guitar based amp modelling/fx apps to jam around with, but the price is just way too high for me. Even at the current sale pricing all the IAPs are an obnoxious amount of money.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@OscarSouth said:
Always wanted to get one/many of these guitar based amp modelling/fx apps to jam around with, but the price is just way too high for me. Even at the current sale pricing all the IAPs are an obnoxious amount of money.

Tonebridge is free. I have the base Tonestack. Don't really need the IAPs (although a couple of the more specialized boxes might come in handy once in a while).

kin

Just spent just under twenty quid on the Amplitude Fender 2 iap, it's very good, especially the twin sim.

supadom

I got TS on sale a while ago and have been playing it since. I think it hits the sweet spot of low CPU load, all in app and good midi implementation.

Cant speak of distorted and overdriven sounds but I found cleans reasonably decent even if a touch muddy. I think with a bit of tweaking a compromise can be reached. I'll always prefer a physical amp but not having to mic one up is a bonus.

Octaver, echoplex and blue fuzz effects definitely stand out for me.

I like Bias but the high cpu load and the need for another app for the effects place it below ts for me.

HandOfEmpty

Are Bias FX's effect really that bad compared to Tonestack? Or is it the price?

Panthemusicalgoat

Bias sounds really great actually but it tends to sound more muddy to me and also it hogs the cpu compared to tonestack. Also tonestack has the only real time pitch shifting pedal that sounds good and can do full chord shifting. I dont know why no other guitar sim has done this yet.

Also using finddlecator as IAA in tonestack with cabinet IRs drastically improves the overall sound in a warm way. It's free too and here's a sample Marshall cab IR
https://www.dropbox.com/s/paouj0s7ebvrs72/Marshall1960A-G12Ms-KM84-BackCab-1in.wav?dl=0

Btw I have the full motherload and it was Worth it! There's such a vast selection of pedals and amps. Haven't found a guitar tone I can't copy so far

JRSIV

@kin said:
Just spent just under twenty quid on the Amplitude Fender 2 iap, it's very good, especially the twin sim.

The Fender 2 Bassman with some tweaking is also very good. I used to be so disappointed in Amplitube, I bought most all of the IAP's (Hendrix, etc) in a big bundle sale but was really underwhelmed.

The Fender Collection 2 stuff is supposed to be using a different technology for the modeling and whatever it is it sounds good. I have heard from several cats on the board that the Mesa Boogie IAP is supposed to be really good too. I am watching for a sale if it's good enough I may bite.

Oh, sidenote: Bought the OCD pedal IAP and if you take the time you'll be amazed at the sounds you can get. Going into a Deluxe with dead clean settings then slowly bringing up the gain on the OCD to juuuust the right spot yielded some VERY convincing tones. It's like $5 and while it does not take the place of a real pedal, it certainly has that thing going on.

High5denied

@HandOfEmpty said:
Are Bias FX's effect really that bad compared to Tonestack? Or is it the price?

No, I think they are actually quite good. Just.........Some of TS's, mabye a good number of them seem to sound better than Bias, or do more? As far as distortions go, I don't think Tonestack comes close to Bias.

kin

@JRSIV said:

The Fender 2 Bassman with some tweaking is also very good. I used to be so disappointed in Amplitube, I bought most all of the IAP's (Hendrix, etc) in a big bundle sale but was really underwhelmed.

Yep, I deleted it for a while, couldn't seem to get what I wanted out of it compared to Bias Fx and Tonestack but the new Fender collection is right up there with those two.

Oh, sidenote: Bought the OCD pedal IAP and if you take the time you'll be amazed at the sounds you can get. Going into a Deluxe with dead clean settings then slowly bringing up the gain on the OCD to juuuust the right spot yielded some VERY convincing tones. It's like $5 and while it does not take the place of a real pedal, it certainly has that thing going on.

Thanks for the pointer on the OCD, I have been getting decent results using free IR's in Fiddlecator with Bias Fx too.

Briandandrig

so how are amplitubes distortion pedals?

I dont use distortion so much as i would rather just use a high gain amp with an overdrive.

I guess Bias has the best dirt pedals according to this thread. I wonder how amplitube stacks up

High5denied

I never bought any of the IAP's, so I can only speak to the base app. I don't think the distortion pedals in Amplitude are anything to write home about. I wasn't impressed with the amps or the pedals in Amplitude. Sampletank on the other hand, that is a quality app.