SPIRITUALITY & FAITH: Role in your music?

knewspeak

@espiegel123 said:

@knewspeak said:

@dendy said:

@nickneek
“Science adjusts its view based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved.”

Beautigul, i have to remember this.

That statement is utter twaddle. Otherwise scientists with faith would be an impossibility.

Nothing about the quote is at odds with scientists of faith except to the extent that one’s faith denies the legitimacy of repeatedly and systematically observed events.

Lots and lots of scientists consider themselves people of faith —without feeling the need to deny observed reality. They (as most people ) view religious texts as being largely metaphorical rather than literal).

You are truly a believer, even stretching credulity to defend such nonsense, adding disclaimer’s like ‘to the extent’, then onto ‘they’ and ‘view’ in your statement, to somehow try to claim factually, while devoid of any factual proof to make this claim, is in itself quite unscientific.

Ultimately how scientists view religious texts is irrelevant, they still have ‘faith’ or ‘belief’.

Humanity’s use of science for all it’s technological wonders hasn’t killed ‘belief’.

espiegel123

? I guess there is no sense in replying. @knewspeak: your response is non-responsive to what I wrote.

As for your "true believer" comment, you consistently show no insight or understanding as to what I believe.

knewspeak

@espiegel123 said:
? I guess there is no sense in replying. @knewspeak: your response is non-responsive to what I wrote.

As for your "true believer" comment, you consistently show no insight or understanding as to what I believe.

To which part do you refer when you state ‘non-responsive’, while I don’t know what you believe, I know enough from our previous discussions, if you care to remember them, as they don’t exactly remain here, much of what I and others said, has sadly come to be known in the wider arena.

There is nothing wrong with gnosis, only in its application and that requires wisdom, speaks this humble fool.

pedro

Now, how does all this pertain to music? Cause OP specifically asked about the role in your music.

I personally find music a kind of meditation. I can be lost in music making for hours and be completely oblivious to the passage of time, forgetting to eat or sleep (one of the reasons I got divorced, cause my ex never shared that religion of mine).
So for me music is one of the most important expressions of spirituality in my life, cause it connects me to the source of what it means to be human. I find it pointless to discuss god because it’s unprovable either way (exists or not). At most I’m agnostic, I don’t know, can’t know, and don’t really care anymore

My parents didn’t raised me religious or anything. I can’t remember a single time they ever spoke to us about god, or anything like. We never went to church. Religion was never a topic in our house. My parents cared more of preparing their children to be good people, which included respecting other people’s beliefs.

Since god is one of the great unknowables, I agree with buddha we should focus on ending suffering instead, ours and others’

MrSmileZ

@dendy said:
i do not wanted to continue here but it's not possible. When i see missinformations or missunderstanding of done well degined terms i need to react. Simly can't help myself, i must educate people when i see lack of knowledge 🤣

@MrSmileZ
A lot of people “followed the science” on a current event…and now are starting to regret that decision. A lot of science that we were almost forced to follow wasn’t science at all…it was more like dogshit…worthless. Just saying.

well, people don't "follow" science.. you can understand science or you can not understand science but "following" science makes no sense.. i do not understand all science there are areas where i have no clue. My main area of interest is particle physics and cosmology, if you have any question in this area i can try explain you what you're interested in.

Most big scientific theories are exactly that…theories….not fact at all.

Scientific theory is not " just theory". It's very serious thing. Thank to those theories you have your computer or phone or ipad which you use to read this text.

You may learn more on link bellow. Just main definition what is "theory" in science, it's something different than people use in common talk.

"A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that can be (or a fortiori, that has been) repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, some theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.[1][2] In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

I don’t find science to be more reliable than my belief system, and science has never helped me through a whole lot in life

Basically everything you have in your life you have thanks to science. It is helping you literally every day.

This statement is extremely disrespectful to all scientists who made possible to exists all things you have around your - you should really reconsider it.

Did you ever took any meds which helped you ? You should thank science. Look at all your music gear. At your car. At your microwave owen or washmachine or TV. Do you have aircondition ? Do you live in house with heating during winter ?

I have surprise for you. Say “thanks” to scientists who made it possible. Only thing where faith or spirituality really helps - that cannot be denied - is what is inside your head - your mental state and how you feel every day (even that not always, sometimes science must step in and help too there). Rest of things you have around you - you have them only thanks to science.

Reason why you don’t live like animal, eating just what you find on trees with average lifespan 20-30 years just waiting that you become prey, but in advanced civilisation with all advantages like healthcare, electronics, quality food and clean drinking water is only and only science.

I could walk up to any crowd and say I believe in any diety or god and nobody would be angry, or standoffish….unless it was Jesus/Yeshua…oh then prepare for battle…because the humans get so triggered. I Wonder why that particular choice has so much adversity? I’ve experimented plenty of times with this…

Note that this type of reaction you get usually from other religious people who's believe in other deity .. It's sad but actually religious people are the ones who are fighting each other becasue of belief, in some kind atheists are actually much more tolerant to faith than religious people lol. Except of communists (which is a kind of religion too lol) never saw some atheist group trying to erradicate some other group of people just because they believe in some god. All religions war were always one religion agains other religion, not atheists agains religion.

Sadly, it can't be said in opposite, atheists were persecuted by religious people for millenia, and they still are in some parts of world.

Funny thing is - there is over 6000 religions in existence. If you belive in some of them, you are basically "atheist" for menbers of all other 5999. So i always say, religious people are just very tiny bit less atheists than full blown atheists. like chance 1:6000 i am wrong vs. chance 1:5999 i am wrong

‘Follow the science’ was the world economic forum and the WHO’s big power trip saying to turn people against each other. There were a few realities steeped in this around my hometown where a brother shot his own blood brother over a brawl about a certain stick in the arm…and killed him, and now he also is imprisoned…for some “my mask don’t work unless your mask” is on this same follow the SCIENCE bs. That’s what I was referring to.

I said that about most BIG theories…I still say that, for example the Big Bang BS which is pure doggie doo. I guess chickens flew thru space along with thousands of other species and landed flawlessly here…or even better one planarian type goo turned into everything here…also very laughable…. We can from monkeys but some monkeys didn’t evolve…weird. I have thousands of examples that knock down scientific where did all this life come from goofiness. I had a biology teacher that told me “religion was the invent or crazy old men”…to which I replied so was science.

And the pompous ideas of scientists sometimes…let’s look at Hawking for example…he said “He didn’t believe in god, because he never seen a miracle”. I will now tell you why this is ignorant…he was a miracle, he lived a pretty long life for having ALS, nobody else comes close, ALS is usually very quick in killing you. It was miraculous to have lived so long with it. Only one other human has survived longer than Hawkins with ALS, and almost nobody else comes close.

I also said this: I won’t knock all things scientific, because humans have accidentally and sometimes on purpose invented some useful things. I do love the creativity of people.

I also said this…
Summary:
What you all choose as your belief system, doesn’t apply to me…so I have no beef with it. I don’t have to pay any price for you being right, or for you being wrong. So it literally matters to me none. I have friends from all walks of life and all belief systems…even atheists who believe nothing. What I believe in shouldn’t matter to you at all, unless you are interested in it and ask me about it, and then it’s no problem to explain it.

I took myself off most of my medication and I am starting to feel better? Soon I will be off it all. I am also starting to take charge of my food. I have lived a great deal of my life with no ac and wood fires…so yea I can easily go back there. In fact there’s something magic about a breeze on a hot day. From what I can tell… most of these things we have created have took a big shit on us all…but that’s my opinion…I don’t need for you to agree…I still love you anyways. Now where’s my hug.

knewspeak

@pedro said:
Now, how does all this pertain to music? Cause OP specifically asked about the role in your music.

I personally find music a kind of meditation. I can be lost in music making for hours and be completely oblivious to the passage of time, forgetting to eat or sleep (one of the reasons I got divorced, cause my ex never shared that religion of mine).
So for me music is one of the most important expressions of spirituality in my life, cause it connects me to the source of what it means to be human. I find it pointless to discuss god because it’s unprovable either way (exists or not). At most I’m agnostic, I don’t know, can’t know, and don’t really care anymore

My parents didn’t raised me religious or anything. I can’t remember a single time they ever spoke to us about god, or anything like. We never went to church. Religion was never a topic in our house. My parents cared more of preparing their children to be good people, which included respecting other people’s beliefs.

Since god is one of the great unknowables, I agree with buddha we should focus on ending suffering instead, ours and others’

Sound, rhythm and music, isn’t just unique to our species, but I hold our species has the finest critique's.

But I do agree with you.

dendy

@MrSmileZ

Well blaming science if some low IQ psycho kills somebody because of mask is like blaming Islam from existence of terrorism. Complete nonsense.

That guy you mentioned was just mentally unstable and people like this are easy to be manipulated and pushed to do horrible things. No matter if you use twisted science or twisted religion.

Also WHO and especially WEF are very corrupted organizations. Especially WEF is pure evil.

What is problem here is you really doesn’t understand science yet you are talking about science. I tried to explain here some basic concepts how science works and what are some people here getting wrong but … i see trying to do this here is wasting of time, people already made their strong opinions about subject without need of knowledge.

Don’t get me wrong i am not mad on you, zero hate or other wrong emotions from me - i want to make this very clear cause forum often fails to translate emotions . No bad feelings towards you or anybody else with whom i disagree, except of one troll:)) i like all people with who i interacted on this forum, still think it’s nice community.

What i feel is huge sadness because this is new norm, i see it around me in real world, and this way of thinking and turning back to science will ultimately lead to decline of our civilization . That’s all i feel, sad and hopeless about future of humanity if this way of thinking prevails.

knewspeak

@dendy i absolutely agree, both science and religion can be twisted, in both countless lives have been murdered wrongly justified in the name of either cause. That’s always saddening, but in their quest they both search for the meaning to existence.