Can you sing ?

richardyot

@MikeyP said:
I sing in a band and I have been using an app called Vanido to do warm ups and increase my vocal strength. Its a cheap way to improve your pitch as well. Like the aforementioned app it listens and shows you if you are on pitch or not in real time during the exercises.Unlike the aforementioned app it doesnt cost a lot of money

Looks really good. FWIW the Erol Singer's Studio was only £10 when I bought it back in 2014 (I checked the email receipt) shame it's got so expensive, but this looks nice.

MikeyP

Looks really good. FWIW the Erol Singer's Studio was only £10 when I bought it back in 2014 (I checked the email receipt) shame it's got so expensive, but this looks nice.

Ya its $63 CAD at the moment

TheAudioDabbler

Erol is a little pricy. Need to save up on it or wait until it drops in price.

I always struggle with singing. Its not natural for me. I dislike my voice most of the time. Sometimes I feel it sounds ok but then I try and record it, listen back and delete it every-time.

It is something I want to work on more. Glad to see others are starting later in life in pursuit to sing better.

I will bookmark this thread, hopefully it inspires me to work even harder.

TheAudioDabbler

I found a few vocal exercises on amazon music unlimited.

[Deleted User]

Maybe i try this....

enc

@supadom said:

If you can tell when somebody else is out of tune then you’re likely just need a lot of practice.

yes i can tell when someone is singing out of tune .. for this reason i figured im not tone deaf

enc

@Kühl said:

@enc said:
My partners daughter is 14 and has more musical talent in her little finger than I do in my whole body. She has a natural ability to sing and natural vibrato in her singing voice ..it's great she loves singing but lacks the confidense to sing solo in front of people.

o. You have probably been told some time in your life that you are unmusical,

No actually.
but i was never encouraged either

enc

@richardyot said:
When I was young and played in various bands every time I tried to sing I was told to stop

But anyway, now I'm older I'm more of the mindset that anyone can learn anything, as long as they put the work in. Having said that I can see that for me learning to sing has been much more effort than it seems to have been for other people. A fair few contributors to SOTMC can sing really well, and apparently with little effort. This wasn't the case for me, I've had to work pretty hard to just achieve OK results.

To start with, back in 2014, I used an app called Erol Singer's Studio and the really cool thing about that is that it can track your pitch in real time as you sing. So the app plays a note and you sing it back and you can see exactly how in or out of tune you are. Because when I was starting out I personally was all at sea, I just couldn't tell exactly what being in tune sounded like, but with a few weeks work with this app I learnt to hear what being in tune sounded like - that was one of the biggest hurdles to overcome.

After that I have spent many many nights just practicing a bunch of songs with an acoustic guitar and recording myself and then listening back to the recordings the following day. If you don't play an instrument there are lots of karaoke videos on YouTube where you could do something similar - I like to indulge in this when the wife and kids are out...

I've found that over time the hardest thing for me to really get right is micro-tuning. At the very beginning if I tracked my pitch in something like Melodyne the notes could be off by a long way - a few semitones easily. As I've got better over time they are much closer to where they should be, half a semitone or less, but the difference between being perfectly in tune and being 20 cents out is still noticeable and quite jarring - and this is what has really taken time and work for me to improve on, it's a slow process. I've also found that I tend to sing slightly sharp (probably down to trying too hard, it's better when I'm more relaxed) but every year I do sing slightly better than the last.

Aside from pitch, I've also discovered that style is important, but that's much more subjective and personal. All the singers I really like tend to not sing with correct technique, but with their own idiosyncratic style, and that's much more appealing to me, but it also means that 90% of the advice from proper singing trainers is not applicable. For example a "proper" singing instructor will discourage you from singing from the throat, but many pop/rock singers do actually sing from the throat and not the head or chest. Most of the great soul singers mixed throat singing (with a little vocal fry) with falsetto and head or chest voice, and singing tuition on YouTube and the like doesn't really reflect the great range of styles that's out there IMO.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, I would say that almost anyone can learn to sing, but for some people it's going to be harder than for others. However even if you don't have much natural aptitude for it you can still do it, it's just a bit more effort. There's a wealth of information out there on YouTube etc and lots of ways to practice now that weren't available ten or twenty years ago.

excellent, cheers dude. not sure where my singing voice comes from but i dont think its chest, throat or head

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

If you want to know if you're in tune, I recommend Tonal Energy Tuner app from the great #Sonosaurus:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tonalenergy-tuner-metronome/id497716362?mt=8

This is inexpensive and awesome, just like all his other apps (Drumjam, Thumbjam). You need them all.

enc

@Cib said:
Even Autotune can‘t help me

it asks me ... are you serious?
actually... ive never tried it. is it possible to use without the Cher effect ?

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

Anyone can learn to sing in tune. I started taking lessons in Indian classical singing last summer. I was awful and terribly out of tune when I started. Today I am still pretty bad, but much more in tune. I study in the dhrupad tradition, which is all about being perfectly in tune and playing with microtonal variations in tuning. Half of every lesson is my teacher telling me I'm out of tune.

Singing with a tanpura drone is a great way to measure whether or not you're in tune. When you're in tune, you can feel the drone vibrating in your body. To experience this you don't need a real tanpura; even a recording will do.

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@richardyot said:

Another example is Sam Beam from Iron & Wine, in his early albums he is whispering more than singing, it's all from the throat and I really love the tone it creates, it's full of atmosphere and a pretty original singing style. Nowadays he sings more conventionally and I actually like his singing a lot less!

He doesn't have classical technique, but he does have chops. It is not easy to sing like that and still be in tune. He's clearly practiced. Learning to sing is like anything else--it only comes with practice.

JohnnyGoodyear

Good series of posts there @richardyot, thoughtful and generous.

Will

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Good series of posts there @richardyot, thoughtful and generous.

Very much, yes.

Will

Just sing. Everyone can sing. Just sing.

Can you sing like Ella Fitzgerald or Sam Cooke or Robert Plant or Adele? It doesn't matter (unless you're the singer for an Ella Fitzgerald or Sam Cooke or Robert Plant or Adele cover band).

supadom

@richardyot said: 'All the singers I really like tend to not sing with correct technique, but with their own idiosyncratic style, and that's much more appealing to me, but it also means that 90% of the advice from proper singing trainers is not applicable. For example a "proper" singing instructor will discourage you from singing from the throat, but many pop/rock singers do actually sing from the throat and not the head or chest'

I disagree. What most teachers will tell you is to work out your technique before learning how to fibd the sound you're looking for.

There is a wide variety of human voices. It depends on many factors (length of esophagus, size of your voice box, vocal chords, shape of your mouth and body. Maybe just maybe a falsetto that Barry Gibb comes up with will be impossible for you to achieve and is completely natural to him. Same goes for Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello. Likely they would also struggle to sing as you do.

Many people ruin their voice thinking that if Tom Waits can do it, so can they. I'm not saying this as an absolute but definitely worth keeping in mind. A ukulele will never sound like a guitar, it's physics.

richardyot

@supadom said:
There is a wide variety of human voices. It depends on many factors (length of esophagus, size of your voice box, vocal chords, shape of your mouth and body. Maybe just maybe a falsetto that Barry Gibb comes up with will be impossible for you to achieve and is completely natural to him. Same goes for Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello. Likely they would also struggle to sing as you do.

Many people ruin their voice thinking that if Tom Waits can do it, so can they. I'm not saying this as an absolute but definitely worth keeping in mind. A ukulele will never sound like a guitar, it's physics.

To be fair to me, I never ever said anything about trying to copy other people.

I just wanted to point out that in 99% of vocal training you are discouraged to sing from the throat, but many really cool singers do actually sing from the throat. That's all.

supadom

@richardyot said:

@supadom said:
There is a wide variety of human voices. It depends on many factors (length of esophagus, size of your voice box, vocal chords, shape of your mouth and body. Maybe just maybe a falsetto that Barry Gibb comes up with will be impossible for you to achieve and is completely natural to him. Same goes for Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello. Likely they would also struggle to sing as you do.

Many people ruin their voice thinking that if Tom Waits can do it, so can they. I'm not saying this as an absolute but definitely worth keeping in mind. A ukulele will never sound like a guitar, it's physics.

To be fair to me, I never ever said anything about trying to copy other people.

I just wanted to point out that in 99% of vocal training you are discouraged to sing from the throat, but many really cool singers do actually sing from the throat. That's all.

That's cool...and I was saying that many singers have their role models but not always the same physical attributes as them.

I remember too well shouting in my flat in Rome trying to sing Maybe I'm amazed like McCartney. I thought I get there and it's only a matter of practice. I'd butcher my voice every time.

I was disagreeing with the idea that you can tell from the sound whether someone is singing from the throat or not. You cannot really. Some people appear not to have a technique but they do or at least it might be just natural to them.

Sometimes just relaxing your shoulders is enough of a technique to save you from fuckin up your voice.

richardyot

@supadom said:

@richardyot said:

@supadom said:
There is a wide variety of human voices. It depends on many factors (length of esophagus, size of your voice box, vocal chords, shape of your mouth and body. Maybe just maybe a falsetto that Barry Gibb comes up with will be impossible for you to achieve and is completely natural to him. Same goes for Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello. Likely they would also struggle to sing as you do.

Many people ruin their voice thinking that if Tom Waits can do it, so can they. I'm not saying this as an absolute but definitely worth keeping in mind. A ukulele will never sound like a guitar, it's physics.

To be fair to me, I never ever said anything about trying to copy other people.

I just wanted to point out that in 99% of vocal training you are discouraged to sing from the throat, but many really cool singers do actually sing from the throat. That's all.

That's cool...and I was saying that many singers have their role models but not always the same physical attributes as them.

I remember too well shouting in my flat in Rome trying to sing Maybe I'm amazed like McCartney. I thought I get there and it's only a matter of practice. I'd butcher my voice every time.

I was disagreeing with the idea that you can tell from the sound whether someone is singing from the throat or not. You cannot really. Some people appear not to have a technique but they do or at least it might be just natural to them.

Sometimes just relaxing your shoulders is enough of a technique to save you from fuckin up your voice.

Yes I think all of the charm resides in what makes the individual, well, individual. I much prefer a voice with character over one with technique. Kurt and not Mariah thank you very much.

PhilW

@MikeyP said:
I sing in a band and I have been using an app called Vanido to do warm ups and increase my vocal strength. Its a cheap way to improve your pitch as well. Like the aforementioned app it listens and shows you if you are on pitch or not in real time during the exercises.Unlike the aforementioned app it doesnt cost a lot of money

Thanks for the recommendation, this looks a really good way to practice and develop your voice.

mrufino1

@richardyot said:

@supadom said:
There is a wide variety of human voices. It depends on many factors (length of esophagus, size of your voice box, vocal chords, shape of your mouth and body. Maybe just maybe a falsetto that Barry Gibb comes up with will be impossible for you to achieve and is completely natural to him. Same goes for Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello. Likely they would also struggle to sing as you do.

Many people ruin their voice thinking that if Tom Waits can do it, so can they. I'm not saying this as an absolute but definitely worth keeping in mind. A ukulele will never sound like a guitar, it's physics.

To be fair to me, I never ever said anything about trying to copy other people.

I just wanted to point out that in 99% of vocal training you are discouraged to sing from the throat, but many really cool singers do actually sing from the throat. That's all.

Not for long they don’t. Take that from someone who no one wants to hear sing!

supadom

@richardyot said:

@supadom said:

@richardyot said:

@supadom said:
There is a wide variety of human voices. It depends on many factors (length of esophagus, size of your voice box, vocal chords, shape of your mouth and body. Maybe just maybe a falsetto that Barry Gibb comes up with will be impossible for you to achieve and is completely natural to him. Same goes for Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder and Elvis Costello. Likely they would also struggle to sing as you do.

Many people ruin their voice thinking that if Tom Waits can do it, so can they. I'm not saying this as an absolute but definitely worth keeping in mind. A ukulele will never sound like a guitar, it's physics.

To be fair to me, I never ever said anything about trying to copy other people.

I just wanted to point out that in 99% of vocal training you are discouraged to sing from the throat, but many really cool singers do actually sing from the throat. That's all.

That's cool...and I was saying that many singers have their role models but not always the same physical attributes as them.

I remember too well shouting in my flat in Rome trying to sing Maybe I'm amazed like McCartney. I thought I get there and it's only a matter of practice. I'd butcher my voice every time.

I was disagreeing with the idea that you can tell from the sound whether someone is singing from the throat or not. You cannot really. Some people appear not to have a technique but they do or at least it might be just natural to them.

Sometimes just relaxing your shoulders is enough of a technique to save you from fuckin up your voice.

Yes I think all of the charm resides in what makes the individual, well, individual. I much prefer a voice with character over one with technique. Kurt and not Mariah thank you very much.

Both technique and character probably most ideal. I'm not sure why when one thinks of technique goes straight to Mariah Carey. I'd say Stevie Wonder, Justin Timberlake, Bjork, Freddie Mercury, Nina Simone, Amy Winehouse etc.

The only reason I insist with this is not to win some kind of argument but to spare budding singers from fucking up their voice because they thought it was cooler to be Kurt as opposed to Mariah.

Edit: I'm not even talking about staying in tune or having an amazing range but more about being energy efficient and not hurting your body. This is especially true if you're touring.

RUST( i )K

@supadom said:

@RUST( i )K said:

@supadom said:
I can sing solo and freely harmonise and have been doing it for years.

If you have desire to sing in tune (or love singing in general) then you are in a very good place to get there.

I think most of the time people who struggle with melody have issues hearing the correct pitch and they slip into harmonics. Also inability to sustain a steady flow of air will hinder your ability to hold a note to pitch.

I think the best thing you can do to practice you should play or play back melodic sequences and try to sing them back. Record them and listen for pitch problems. If you can find those out of tune spots you should be able to correct them. If you can tell when somebody else is out of tune then you’re likely just need a lot of practice. YT for vocal techiniques etc.

I don't know bro, I have heard and seen you enough to know you are really good!

Thanks @RUST( i )K you should here me when I run through TC Helicon's voice rack voice changer. Barry White re imagined.

As long as you have loopy samplr and your guitar your are very own Barry Very White....

TheAudioDabbler

@supadom good points.

I can respect Mariah's voice just as much as Kurts. They are both unique and talented in their own ways. Some people just sing naturally, or should I say, can find their voice naturally. Where others cannot. I am guilty of judging people who have had singing lessons and not people who had guitar or piano lessons. But I am realizing that the voice is an instrument that needs to be trained. Some people don't have to train as much to get what they want to achieve.

I wish I would have understood this earlier in life but no regrets. I know it now and can start practicing my voice now. I am not training to hit notes like Mariah or moan raspily like Kurt. I want to train and strengthen my voice so I can sing my way and be more confident and find my limitations. Every guitar player learns the same chords, same scales, same basic songs but each has their own characteristic, playing style. Of course people can imitate guitar playing styles just like people can imitate singers vocal styles. So I need not to judge vocalist who have had years of training and have perfected their instrument.

Last point, I could see how trying to sing outside of your range or imitate a rasp that you don't naturally have, could hurt your voice. I am sure there are techniques that could help with breaking glass or sounding like you smoke 3 packs of cigs a day. Also for song covers, my favorite ones are when the singer is not trying to be like the original, but taking the song and doing it their own way, style, with their own voice.

richardyot

It's worth pointing out that Kurt really did fuck up his voice...

Best throat singer ever: Don Henley. Try doing that with head or chest voice.

Freddie Mercury was more of a proper singer, great technique, not a throat singer. Neil Young on the other hand seems to be singing from his nose.

oat_phipps

I used to be a good singer; though I never had a naturally killer voice, it was emotive, nuanced and sincere. And for some reason I could absolutely nail Prince...almost a dead ringer.

I stopped singing completely about two years ago when a couple of my best friends (and fellow musicians) told me my voice wasn’t good as Justin Bieber’s. It sounds idiotic and irrational, but it truly ripped the desire to sing right out of my heart.

enc

Wrlds2ndBstGeoshredr

@oat_phipps said:
I used to be a good singer; though I never had a naturally killer voice, it was emotive, nuanced and sincere. And for some reason I could absolutely nail Prince...almost a dead ringer.

I stopped singing completely about two years ago when a couple of my best friends (and fellow musicians) told me my voice wasn’t good as Justin Bieber’s. It sounds idiotic and irrational, but it truly ripped the desire to sing right out of my heart.

That's gotta be the worst reason I ever heard to stop doing anything at all. You have to start again.

boone51

Can you sing ?

Only if you have a song inside you

The obscure point being... don’t worry about singing in key. The artist decides which color is blue.

enc

Any of you guys got links to your stuff .. where we can hear you singing ?