New iPad Pros 2018 look like USB-C hell for musicians

greengrocer

"A Native Instruments Maschine mk3 audio controller sat in silence. A Beyerdynamic USB-C microphone only worked when we used an A-to-C cable plugged into a hub. USB-C is still kind of messy and weird, so you’ll just have to try things and see what works for you.

But one extremely important category of devices will definitely not work: iOS does not support external storage. You can plug as many flash drives or hard drives as you want into the iPad Pro’s USB-C port, and nothing will happen."

Nilay Patel for The Verge
https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/5/18062612/apple-ipad-pro-review-2018-screen-usb-c-pencil-price-features

[Deleted User]

Great new world of mobile: https://www.hypershop.com/pages/hyperdrive-for-ipad-pro?utm_campaign=PR:+HyperDrive+for+iPad+Pro+(P3LMJ7)&utm_medium=email&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJjLnJlbXNlQGZhbGtlbWVkaWEuZGUiLCAia2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJLZFJDNEQifQ==&utm_source=Media

[Deleted User]

Will it work with external audio interface?

Liquidmantis

Maschine isn't class compliant so that's just sensationalism.

That Hyper dock looks nice, I just wish it was cabled. Direct attached it looks bodged.

Hmtx

external storage: no surprise there. It's always been limited by iOS software. The new plug wouldn't change that.

USB music gear: Class-compliant MIDI and audio gear should work the same over USB-C as it did over the "lightning to USB" adapter. I'm guessing that the one USB-C mic they tested had something wrong. I had to go read the article myself to see that they did test a standard USB mic (which showed up in Garageband fine).

Hmtx

@Cib said:
Great new world of mobile:

oh thats funny. Looks like a nice idea... but so impractical. What the new iPads will need is hubs that have 6" minimum cables so that the hub can sit on the desk no matter what orientation the iPad is in. Preferably, a 12" cable so we can tuck the hub out of sight somewhere.

oat_phipps

You're tellin me the jump from 64 gb of storage at 799$ to 1 tb at 1549$. Oh my god that is so ridiculous. Almost 800$ for a terabyte, basically...good god get outta here

Tarekith

@Liquidmantis said:
Maschine isn't class compliant so that's just sensationalism.

This.

Hmtx

@Tarekith said:

@Liquidmantis said:
Maschine isn't class compliant so that's just sensationalism.

This.

haha. So in other words: "New iPad Pros 2018 look like USB-C hell for musicians" if they don't know how to do their research and buy class-compliant gear.

For the rest of us everything will work fine

[Deleted User]

USB-C gate incoming.....

Carnbot

From the review it seems most things work fine with the usb-c, so looks better that the current situation, less dongles overall will be needed. No external hdmi connectors etc. Seems good to me. Storage connection was always a thing which APple was going to restrict as it’s part of their business model. Just the price is the negative thing as usual.

lairdhenn

@Cib said:
Great new world of mobile: https://www.hypershop.com/pages/hyperdrive-for-ipad-pro?utm_campaign=PR:+HyperDrive+for+iPad+Pro+(P3LMJ7)&utm_medium=email&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJjLnJlbXNlQGZhbGtlbWVkaWEuZGUiLCAia2xfY29tcGFueV9pZCI6ICJLZFJDNEQifQ==&utm_source=Media

wow that's hideous

Lady_App_titude

Didn’t we all just know that Apple would never offer us a simple, straightforward improvement?

[Deleted User]

@Lady_App_titude said:
Didn’t we all just know that Apple would never offer us a simple, straightforward improvement?

So now it´s finally a real "computer"....complicated to use and bloated.
But i´m still lurking for one of these even if i already know it will drive me crazy and i miss 90% of my music tools.
Maybe kind of masochism?

Hmtx

@Lady_App_titude said:
Didn’t we all just know that Apple would never offer us a simple, straightforward improvement?

Tiny improvements here and there just to keep us addicted to new purchases.

And we wait so long for some features that we believe them when they introduce USB 3 speeds in 2018 and call it "magical"... 6 years after USB 3 was made the new standard. all you can do is laugh

[Deleted User]

@Hmtx said:

@Tarekith said:

@Liquidmantis said:
Maschine isn't class compliant so that's just sensationalism.

This.

haha. So in other words: "New iPad Pros 2018 look like USB-C hell for musicians" if they don't know how to do their research and buy class-compliant gear.

For the rest of us everything will work fine

It’s class compliant for the audio side which points the article, not trying to defend it but neither spread missinformation...
The point is it still needs a powered hub to work and just as audio interface.

Source:
https://medium.com/@DrumMachineAddicts/5-reasons-to-be-excited-for-the-maschine-mk3-by-native-instruments-25f0f43457eb

[Deleted User]

@Dubbylabby said:

@Hmtx said:

@Tarekith said:

@Liquidmantis said:
Maschine isn't class compliant so that's just sensationalism.

This.

haha. So in other words: "New iPad Pros 2018 look like USB-C hell for musicians" if they don't know how to do their research and buy class-compliant gear.

For the rest of us everything will work fine

It’s class compliant for the audio side which points the article, not trying to defend it but neither spread missinformation...
The point is it still needs a powered hub to work and just as audio interface.

Source:
https://medium.com/@DrumMachineAddicts/5-reasons-to-be-excited-for-the-maschine-mk3-by-native-instruments-25f0f43457eb

I was just going to post the same thing.

david_2017

But there will be something like a CCK that will hook up my stuff to it without being a powered hub, like it is on my iPad lightning connection right now?

[Deleted User]

@david_2017 said:
But there will be something like a CCK that will hook up my stuff to it without being a powered hub, like it is on my iPad lightning connection right now?

Some gear need power. If it isn’t from powered hub then is for dedicated cable with include powering in it... like those 30pins to usb back in the day or pioneer wego solutions kind of.

And even with new port capable of charging an iPhone it probably will need some kind of special apple cable (dongle once again) or Apple open a bit the new port (which seems crippled as usual)

david_2017

@Dubbylabby said:

@david_2017 said:
But there will be something like a CCK that will hook up my stuff to it without being a powered hub, like it is on my iPad lightning connection right now?

Some gear need power. If it isn’t from powered hub then is for dedicated cable with include powering in it... like those 30pins to usb back in the day or pioneer wego solutions kind of.

And even with new port capable of charging an iPhone it probably will need some kind of special apple cable (dongle once again) or Apple open a bit the new port (which seems crippled as usual)

Looks like a win loose situation for uns then. Apple is always the winner, which sucks big time. I hate them but there is not alternative...

[Deleted User]

@david_2017 said:

@Dubbylabby said:

@david_2017 said:
But there will be something like a CCK that will hook up my stuff to it without being a powered hub, like it is on my iPad lightning connection right now?

Some gear need power. If it isn’t from powered hub then is for dedicated cable with include powering in it... like those 30pins to usb back in the day or pioneer wego solutions kind of.

And even with new port capable of charging an iPhone it probably will need some kind of special apple cable (dongle once again) or Apple open a bit the new port (which seems crippled as usual)

Looks like a win loose situation for uns then. Apple is always the winner, which sucks big time. I hate them but there is not alternative...

The thing is usb-c could seem better as standard but it isn’t and in its way to become has similar drawbacks as lightning port.
https://www.trustedreviews.com/opinion/usb-type-c-everything-you-need-to-know-2932202

So it has digital chip in the cable (like lightning) and power from it depends on host connector (that’s what I said possible if Apple...) but for sure not straightforward as most people thinks.

Hmtx

@Dubbylabby said:

It’s class compliant for the audio side which points the article, not trying to defend it but neither spread missinformation...
The point is it still needs a powered hub to work and just as audio interface.

This is in no way worse than what we have now. In The Verge video you see a USB-C adapter with the Maschine connected. There is no power to the Maschine and no power to the USB-C adapter. Sorry guys but that is just user error. That would never have worked previously, so we wouldn't expect it to work now. The USB out (on the adapter) doesn't provide sufficient power. Some USB peripherals just need extra power or it won't work.

The improvement we can reasonably expect is:

• pass-through power there are USB-C hubs which have pass-through power, so the iPad and peripherals would be powered from just the one single USB-C hub (and the USB-C power going to the hub itself). Theoretically it will keep the iPad charged, and makes sure your peripherals get enough juice.
• direct USB-C charging. If you have a USB-C cable that goes direct to lightning, yep it should charge your iPhones. Or a USB-C to standard printer USB cable (do those exist?) might potentially allow for MIDI/Audio data while also powering the peripheral. We don't really know about this yet because we don't know how much Apple has allowed for power output from the port.

JabreyD

Is it not now possible for an older iPad Pro with lightning port, to midi host or slave with the new usb-c iPad Pro?

[Deleted User]

@Hmtx said:

@Dubbylabby said:

It’s class compliant for the audio side which points the article, not trying to defend it but neither spread missinformation...
The point is it still needs a powered hub to work and just as audio interface.

This is in no way worse than what we have now. In The Verge video you see a USB-C adapter with the Maschine connected. There is no power to the Maschine and no power to the USB-C adapter. Sorry guys but that is just user error. That would never have worked previously, so we wouldn't expect it to work now. The USB out (on the adapter) doesn't provide sufficient power. Some USB peripherals just need extra power or it won't work.

The improvement we can reasonably expect is:

• pass-through power there are USB-C hubs which have pass-through power, so the iPad and peripherals would be powered from just the one single USB-C hub (and the USB-C power going to the hub itself). Theoretically it will keep the iPad charged, and makes sure your peripherals get enough juice.
• direct USB-C charging. If you have a USB-C cable that goes direct to lightning, yep it should charge your iPhones. Or a USB-C to standard printer USB cable (do those exist?) might potentially allow for MIDI/Audio data while also powering the peripheral. We don't really know about this yet because we don't know how much Apple has allowed for power output from the port.

Well it could be possible to avoid cck if the iPad Pro port allows for that, this is the new and unclear part. The demo charging the iPhone at keynote could drive users to mistake... Even we could be wrong an Apple truly make an advance... but my gut says no and then you are probably right. Almost as things had been related to Apple iPad ports.

[Deleted User]

@Breezee said:
Is it not now possible for an older iPad Pro with lightning port, to midi host or slave with the new usb-c iPad Pro?

AFAWK charging is possible but something like IDAM between iDevices is far from clear at this stage... to be fair Apple could had been a bit more clear about all of this but hey! it’s Apple

Edit:
https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/10/30/ipad-pro-usb-c-charging/

Still not clear this passthrough audio or whatever aside energy.
Check my next comments to find some interesting info about usb-C standard possibilities.

PhilW

@oat_phipps said:
You're tellin me the jump from 64 gb of storage at 799$ to 1 tb at 1549$. Oh my god that is so ridiculous. Almost 800$ for a terabyte, basically...good god get outta here

Yup, that’s exactly why they don’t allow external storage, so that they can charge exhorbitant prices for their own.

[Deleted User]

Some resources but let me spoil you: there is nothing we hadn’t said yet aside it’s a matter of trial and error

https://www.cultofmac.com/586972/ipad-pro-usb-c/

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/10/31/18043062/apple-usb-c-ipad-pro-strategy-iphone-macbook-port-dongle

Edit with some hopes (and facts)

https://www.imore.com/usb-c-audio-and-ipad-pro-everything-you-need-know

The USB Type-C Specification was released by the USB-IF (USB Implementers Forum) in 2014 along with the USB 3.1 specification. While not required, USB-C has plenty of tricks up its sleeve for the way it can communicate and connect. A USB-C port can support these things simultaneously:

Audio accessory mode For passive audio or passthrough audio.
Alternate mode This uses some of the wires in the USB connection for direct device-to-host transmission of alternate data protocols; as of 2016 this includes DisplayPort, Mobile High-Definition Link, and HDMI.
Billboard Device Class This communicates to supply details of Alternate mode connections or to simply provide information about the connection or the device connected at either end.
Audio Device Class 3 specification This sends analog or digital (or both) audio data through the port.
USB Power Delivery This not only provides "fast charging" over USB, but it also supports DRP (Dual Role Power) to fast charge your phone and supply power to a connected device at the same time.
The USB Type-C specification doesn't require these things, but they are supported. That means you can do a lot more with the USB-C port on your iPad Pro than listen to music or charge it if Apple and the company making whatever is being plugged in decides to include any of these extra modes. Some are great — HDMI or DisplayPort through the Alternate mode specification means you can connect your iPad Pro to a monitor or to an AV Receiver for premium sound while you mirror the screen. And charge it, and send data or charge another USB-C accessory with the right cable all at the same time.

The two pictures above are of a small USB-C dock made by Anker that I use with my Pixelbook. I can send video out through an HDMI or VGA interface, charge my Pixelbook through a USB-C port, send power out through two USB-A ports, and use an Ethernet connection. I can do this all from a relatively cheap block of aluminum that no company had to certify because it leverages these USB-C interface specifications. As long as Apple supports the same, I could plug it into an iPad Pro with the same results.

Android, along with Chrome OS, Windows, macOS, and Linux all fully support the USB Type-C connection specifications. Now iOS at least partially supports the USB-C connector specifications.

While the audio won't necessarily sound better because it's using the USB-C port, there are a lot of cool things that can be done while we are listening. We'll know exactly what you can and can't do once our iPad Pros arrive.

Hope it helps to find ourselves.

ohwell

The one good thing that stands out is that dummies like myself who got themselves a MacBook Pro since the 2016 switch to all Type-C will only need Type C dongles.

[Deleted User]

@ohwell said:
The one good thing that stands out is that dummies like myself who got themselves a MacBook Pro since the 2016 switch to all Type-C will only need Type C dongles.

If you read my links you will find these ports in macs are thunderbolt meanwhile the one in the new iPad Pro isn't so be carefully to mix dongles...

Antkn33

It looks kinda dumb having that he attached to your iPad but it actually could be a very cool feature if it works like the hubs for the new MacBooks

Turntablist

@Liquidmantis said:
Maschine isn't class compliant so that's just sensationalism.

That Hyper dock looks nice, I just wish it was cabled. Direct attached it looks bodged.

Yes it is, it has a class compliant audio interface, its the controller side that uses a special driver, the Maschine Mk3 audio interface works perfectly on Lightning iPads via CCK and powered hub.