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Is iOS too unstable to make music?

135

Comments

  • @cuscolima said:
    Well, I just had a crash with BM3, loosing 2 hours of work...shit and shit. My fault, I should have saved more regularly. I wonder if that kind of « surprise » still happen on desktop...

    In my experience, the less frequently you change software on your system, the less problems you will face. Not every driver and plugin is coded well and a few might cause issues again and again. If there's no fix available, then simply get rid of these.
    Some people always want the latest stuff, and that comes at a price, not only monetary.

  • edited December 2018

    @cuscolima said:
    Well, I just had a crash with BM3, loosing 2 hours of work...shit and shit. My fault, I should have saved more regularly. I wonder if that kind of « surprise » still happen on desktop...

    This can happen sometimes with Ableton Live 10/Windows 10, but mostly if I disconnect some midi controllers or Touchable, which is stupid to do. Or sometimes if I use Jbridge for 32 bits VST. In those specific cases, Live has a nice work recovery feature. Other than that, pretty crash proof. On laptop, I can remember awful work lost but that was back in 2000 with crappy Windows 98 and Cubase VST.

  • edited December 2018

    @Janosax said:

    @cuscolima said:
    Well, I just had a crash with BM3, loosing 2 hours of work...shit and shit. My fault, I should have saved more regularly. I wonder if that kind of « surprise » still happen on desktop...

    This can happen sometimes with Ableton Live 10/Windows 10, but mostly if I disconnect some midi controllers or Touchable, which is stupid to do. Or sometimes if I use Jbridge for 32 bits VST. In those specific cases, Live has a nice work recovery feature. Other than that, pretty crash proof. On laptop, I can remember awful work lost but that was back in 2000 with crappy Windows 98 and Cubase VST.

    Had the past week (and a bit of next/whoot) off and doing a bunch of obligatory laptop stuff/dreaming of what could be throughout the rest of the year if I didn’t have to work, wahwah etc. Had a few wtf crashes but yah, my setup has been neglected with lots of plugging/unplugging/experimenting with hubs. Hell, windows drivers for audio devices are so flakey, you switch which usb port it is on the laptop (not even using the new hub) and it reinstalls the damn driver, resetting my settings lol. Anyway, things are tough/awesome all over. Whatever, I am my own worst damn enemy having recabled, rearranged the damn setup three times in the past week etc/zzz.

  • It's not Windoze drivers being flakey - it's the OS itself.
    If you have a laptop/desktop with 4 USB ports, it will install the very same driver 4 times if you plug your audio device into each of those ports... that's the way it's constructed. ;)

  • @Telefunky said:
    It's not Windoze drivers being flakey - it's the OS itself.
    If you have a laptop/desktop with 4 USB ports, it will install the very same driver 4 times if you plug your audio device into each of those ports... that's the way it's constructed. ;)

    Yah thats what I meant windows support of audio drivers being flakey! I mean I get it, not all ports are created equal etc. That which Gus don’t like = flakey

  • edited December 2018

    @AudioGus said:

    @Telefunky said:
    It's not Windoze drivers being flakey - it's the OS itself.
    If you have a laptop/desktop with 4 USB ports, it will install the very same driver 4 times if you plug your audio device into each of those ports... that's the way it's constructed. ;)

    Yah thats what I meant windows support of audio drivers being flakey! I mean I get it, not all ports are created equal etc. That which Gus don’t like = flakey

    This is not a worst limit to know (specific to that OS) that all the workarounds we have to know on iOS to just make more or less advanced music, IMO. I acknowledge it’s disturbing, but once you know it that’s ok. I’ve started making music on Windows 18 years ago, we can’t compare what it was with what it is today. XP was already pretty stable. One thing that misses me however is aggregate devices.

  • edited December 2018

    To be more precise: aggregated devices are possible because Apple's core audio routines are part of the OS, which is not the case with Win XP and 7.
    (no idea about Win-10 which I'll ignore until someone pays me big bucks to dive into it)
    But I guess it doesn't make a difference as VST is based on (much) older code anyway.

    My XP system (cut off from internet) is fairly stable, but most of it's audio is processed on Creamware DSP cards which made VST sound blunt and clumpsy to handle back in the days. This may not apply to some recent VSTs in the same degree, but there are more advantages, see below.
    (my only VST plugins are the Valhalla effects, Scuffham's S-Gear guitar amp sim and the Zynaptiq ZAP bundle for certain pre/postprocessing tasks)

    The Creamware system is functionally similiar to what AUM does, just more detailed and more flexible. It routes audio and midi signals arbitrary in parallel and sequential pathes.
    (displayed graphically like a modular synth cabling)
    You can use as many virtual mixers as you need, and if required the timing of an audio path can be checked/adjusted to the degree of single sample accuracy at any point of the routing.
    Not needed for regular use, but really handy when external gear is integrated into the setup.

    That shit is almost 20 years old, but (imho) still on par with all the latest and greatest 'modern' releases. Some may sound different indeed - which I like in particular with those IOS synths by PPG and Apesoft/Amazing Noises processors - different colors on the sonic palette.
    The iPad is connected via an iCA4+ analog io-pair to this system or using 8 digital channels (Adat) of an Audient ID22.

  • @cuscolima said:
    Well, I just had a crash with BM3, loosing 2 hours of work...shit and shit. My fault, I should have saved more regularly. I wonder if that kind of « surprise » still happen on desktop...

    Yes, sometimes it does. But if that happens i always can restart where i was and nothing is lost.
    But i guess some iOS DAWs might have the same kind of autosave.

  • Sure I have frustrations making music on my iPad. Never would I consider it unstable. It is however, quirky, confusing, uncooperative with the occasional crash.

    If your looking to write a book you don’t grab a word processor to write your first ideas or generate new ones. You grab pen and paper or dictate. An iPad for me is that pen and paper idea generator and yes sometimes finisher. It all depends on the complexity involved.

    I always remember that without it though I’d probably not be making music at all.

    $20-30 for a DAW, a synth or sound module, for a noisemaker that works out of the box, an amp or pedal emulator... all that which fits in my pocket — color me excited.

  • @zeroG said:
    The biggest challenge we have with iOS is that constant OS updates will always have the potential to break apps... and devs (forgivably) get tired of having to constantly maintain their code just to keep it working. That’s why the devs that do religiously maintain their same apps over the years should be applauded for doing so.

    The only real answer is stop updating iOS + your set of apps once you’ve arrived at what you feel is a stable combo.

    It would be ideal if Apple decided to offer both LTS and STS releases, like in the Linux world. Can’t see that happening though.

    The thing about not updating iOS is you miss out on features. Imagine if you stayed on iOS 10 to keep your 32 bit apps, you miss AU Midi. Or you decided to stay on iOS 11, you miss out on more CPU headroom for AUv3 instruments.
    I also feel like the devs who take iOS serious and don’t treat it as an after thought have apps that work across the board even after an update

  • @lukesleepwalker said:
    These threads are hilarious and remind me of this classic Louis CK bit:

    Funny, but a totally different story, but still very funny.
    The thing is, if lives were at stakes in ios app business like in the super regulated aeronautic industry, apple would make sure to keep his shit together and not leave anyone beind when forcing updates on his system. They just gotten too big to give a damn, so instability reign in the ios music making ecosystem.
    The technology has been there for a while, so nothing new to get exited about. And we are talking code, that remains the same and stay stable as long as you don’t FUCK EVERYTHING UP with the OS every once in a while.

  • edited December 2018

    just stop using IAA stuff and you will be surprised how stable iOS is :lol:

  • @YZJustDatGuy said:

    @zeroG said:
    The biggest challenge we have with iOS is that constant OS updates will always have the potential to break apps... and devs (forgivably) get tired of having to constantly maintain their code just to keep it working. That’s why the devs that do religiously maintain their same apps over the years should be applauded for doing so.

    The only real answer is stop updating iOS + your set of apps once you’ve arrived at what you feel is a stable combo.

    It would be ideal if Apple decided to offer both LTS and STS releases, like in the Linux world. Can’t see that happening though.

    The thing about not updating iOS is you miss out on features. Imagine if you stayed on iOS 10 to keep your 32 bit apps, you miss AU Midi. Or you decided to stay on iOS 11, you miss out on more CPU headroom for AUv3 instruments.
    I also feel like the devs who take iOS serious and don’t treat it as an after thought have apps that work across the board even after an update

    I agree it’s far from ideal - I’m not crazy about missing out on new features and optimisations - but if you want stability that’s the necessary trade off, plain and simple. There’s no question that each update jeopardises the stability of your setup but at least you get to choose whether or not you run the gauntlet each time :)

  • @lukesleepwalker said:
    These threads are hilarious and remind me of this classic Louis CK bit:

    LOL. I never get tired of seeing this one.

    I love what I can do with my iPad, and the music apps work great in so many ways. I love desk/laptop too. In combination, the capability is astronomical. Ten years ago, I didn’t imagine it could be this good.

  • @YZJustDatGuy said:

    @zeroG said:
    The biggest challenge we have with iOS is that constant OS updates will always have the potential to break apps... and devs (forgivably) get tired of having to constantly maintain their code just to keep it working. That’s why the devs that do religiously maintain their same apps over the years should be applauded for doing so.

    The only real answer is stop updating iOS + your set of apps once you’ve arrived at what you feel is a stable combo.

    It would be ideal if Apple decided to offer both LTS and STS releases, like in the Linux world. Can’t see that happening though.

    The thing about not updating iOS is you miss out on features. Imagine if you stayed on iOS 10 to keep your 32 bit apps, you miss AU Midi. Or you decided to stay on iOS 11, you miss out on more CPU headroom for AUv3 instruments.
    I also feel like the devs who take iOS serious and don’t treat it as an after thought have apps that work across the board even after an update

    I wished so i have stayed with iOS 10 since iOS 11 give me actually close to nothing but takes things away. But i lost my most important apps to create what i liked, NS1 and the good old amazing Alchemy app.
    So it´s always better to really think about if it´s worth to upgrade for some new features or apps with the risk of breaking or loosing something.
    I wished these yearly os major and hardware updates would be not so common. I would prefer it like gaming consoles where you only get a new major update every few years and it´s amazing how much better things can get on the same hardware after some years if developers really have time to optimize.
    Some bigger projects taking years and not sure if that helps if there are 5, 6 or more major software and hardware upgrades in this time.

  • @Cib said:

    @YZJustDatGuy said:

    @zeroG said:
    The biggest challenge we have with iOS is that constant OS updates will always have the potential to break apps... and devs (forgivably) get tired of having to constantly maintain their code just to keep it working. That’s why the devs that do religiously maintain their same apps over the years should be applauded for doing so.

    The only real answer is stop updating iOS + your set of apps once you’ve arrived at what you feel is a stable combo.

    It would be ideal if Apple decided to offer both LTS and STS releases, like in the Linux world. Can’t see that happening though.

    The thing about not updating iOS is you miss out on features. Imagine if you stayed on iOS 10 to keep your 32 bit apps, you miss AU Midi. Or you decided to stay on iOS 11, you miss out on more CPU headroom for AUv3 instruments.
    I also feel like the devs who take iOS serious and don’t treat it as an after thought have apps that work across the board even after an update

    I wished so i have stayed with iOS 10 since iOS 11 give me actually close to nothing but takes things away. But i lost my most important apps to create what i liked, NS1 and the good old amazing Alchemy app.
    So it´s always better to really think about if it´s worth to upgrade for some new features or apps with the risk of breaking or loosing something.
    I wished these yearly os major and hardware updates would be not so common. I would prefer it like gaming consoles where you only get a new major update every few years and it´s amazing how much better things can get on the same hardware after some years if developers really have time to optimize.
    Some bigger projects taking years and not sure if that helps if there are 5, 6 or more major software and hardware upgrades in this time.

    The gaming world is becoming more like the phone/tablet/PC world now anyways. Hardware upgrades between generations to keep up with tech. Tech is moving entirely too fast to have on 1 or 2 iterations of hardware or software ever couple of years. I understand the issue with upgrades being frequent and there’s constant changes but imagine the backlash if there were a lack of updates and changes. It keeps things fresh. It might not be ideal for us musicians but that’s always been the case. A lot of major studios are still on OS X 10.6 and such because of the software.
    I honestly like how things are going. Things will break but eventually be fixed. I like when devs update their apps to take advantage of new features to keep moving forward

  • edited December 2018

    @YZJustDatGuy said:

    @Cib said:

    @YZJustDatGuy said:

    @zeroG said:
    The biggest challenge we have with iOS is that constant OS updates will always have the potential to break apps... and devs (forgivably) get tired of having to constantly maintain their code just to keep it working. That’s why the devs that do religiously maintain their same apps over the years should be applauded for doing so.

    The only real answer is stop updating iOS + your set of apps once you’ve arrived at what you feel is a stable combo.

    It would be ideal if Apple decided to offer both LTS and STS releases, like in the Linux world. Can’t see that happening though.

    The thing about not updating iOS is you miss out on features. Imagine if you stayed on iOS 10 to keep your 32 bit apps, you miss AU Midi. Or you decided to stay on iOS 11, you miss out on more CPU headroom for AUv3 instruments.
    I also feel like the devs who take iOS serious and don’t treat it as an after thought have apps that work across the board even after an update

    I wished so i have stayed with iOS 10 since iOS 11 give me actually close to nothing but takes things away. But i lost my most important apps to create what i liked, NS1 and the good old amazing Alchemy app.
    So it´s always better to really think about if it´s worth to upgrade for some new features or apps with the risk of breaking or loosing something.
    I wished these yearly os major and hardware updates would be not so common. I would prefer it like gaming consoles where you only get a new major update every few years and it´s amazing how much better things can get on the same hardware after some years if developers really have time to optimize.
    Some bigger projects taking years and not sure if that helps if there are 5, 6 or more major software and hardware upgrades in this time.

    The gaming world is becoming more like the phone/tablet/PC world now anyways. Hardware upgrades between generations to keep up with tech. Tech is moving entirely too fast to have on 1 or 2 iterations of hardware or software ever couple of years. I understand the issue with upgrades being frequent and there’s constant changes but imagine the backlash if there were a lack of updates and changes. It keeps things fresh. It might not be ideal for us musicians but that’s always been the case. A lot of major studios are still on OS X 10.6 and such because of the software.
    I honestly like how things are going. Things will break but eventually be fixed. I like when devs update their apps to take advantage of new features to keep moving forward

    Maybe...but i think still not as worst and fast moving (not forward always) like the mobile world.
    Also these triple A games are a billion market like blockbuster movies and comes sometimes even with better soundtracks. Now here we have another market growing maybe creating music and doing sound design for all the tiny apps, independent movies or even some larger things which even a hobbyist can do now without spending a fortune.
    But also sadly new tech like 3D touch and split-screen f.e. are not as much used as i had thought.
    Where are the devs using all the new tech? It seems often more about quantity these days.

  • OSX 10.6 was the most stable and reliable release of that OS ever.
    People were forced to part from it for 'security' reasons. From 10.7 on the code/memory model was completely changed to make internet attacks more difficult.
    But studio production machines don't rely on inet-connectivity, so there is no reason to leave a solid workbase behind for NOTHING but more social media bs and a more trained Siri chatterbox.

    The whole progress story is a nice idea - if there were at least some of it.
    In the end it's a modern fairytale.
    Imho the only thing that really made whooping jumps forward is software to break into other software.

  • @Cib said:

    @YZJustDatGuy said:

    @Cib said:

    @YZJustDatGuy said:

    @zeroG said:
    The biggest challenge we have with iOS is that constant OS updates will always have the potential to break apps... and devs (forgivably) get tired of having to constantly maintain their code just to keep it working. That’s why the devs that do religiously maintain their same apps over the years should be applauded for doing so.

    The only real answer is stop updating iOS + your set of apps once you’ve arrived at what you feel is a stable combo.

    It would be ideal if Apple decided to offer both LTS and STS releases, like in the Linux world. Can’t see that happening though.

    The thing about not updating iOS is you miss out on features. Imagine if you stayed on iOS 10 to keep your 32 bit apps, you miss AU Midi. Or you decided to stay on iOS 11, you miss out on more CPU headroom for AUv3 instruments.
    I also feel like the devs who take iOS serious and don’t treat it as an after thought have apps that work across the board even after an update

    I wished so i have stayed with iOS 10 since iOS 11 give me actually close to nothing but takes things away. But i lost my most important apps to create what i liked, NS1 and the good old amazing Alchemy app.
    So it´s always better to really think about if it´s worth to upgrade for some new features or apps with the risk of breaking or loosing something.
    I wished these yearly os major and hardware updates would be not so common. I would prefer it like gaming consoles where you only get a new major update every few years and it´s amazing how much better things can get on the same hardware after some years if developers really have time to optimize.
    Some bigger projects taking years and not sure if that helps if there are 5, 6 or more major software and hardware upgrades in this time.

    The gaming world is becoming more like the phone/tablet/PC world now anyways. Hardware upgrades between generations to keep up with tech. Tech is moving entirely too fast to have on 1 or 2 iterations of hardware or software ever couple of years. I understand the issue with upgrades being frequent and there’s constant changes but imagine the backlash if there were a lack of updates and changes. It keeps things fresh. It might not be ideal for us musicians but that’s always been the case. A lot of major studios are still on OS X 10.6 and such because of the software.
    I honestly like how things are going. Things will break but eventually be fixed. I like when devs update their apps to take advantage of new features to keep moving forward

    Maybe...but i think still not as worst and fast moving (not forward always) like the mobile world.
    Also these triple A games are a billion market like blockbuster movies and comes sometimes even with better soundtracks. Now here we have another market growing maybe creating music and doing sound design for all the tiny apps, independent movies or even some larger things which even a hobbyist can do now without spending a fortune.
    But also sadly new tech like 3D touch and spit-screen f.e. are not as much used as i had thought.
    Where are the devs using all the new tech? It seems often more about quantity these days.

    Yea gaming is the biggest form of entertainment by far. Not every game will surpass a billion but it’s crazy that some do.
    I see devs use new tech sometimes. 3D Touch isn’t a part of any iPad so it’s far not to see it. I also think 3D Touch will go away soon. Split screen isn’t super ideal for music apps. Also audio unit support is a big one that came in an iOS update. Still a lot of devs overlook it but I feel like it’s super important now.i would buy all of Korgs synth apps if they had AU. I personally won’t buy an app if it doesn’t have AUv3. The new tech for us musicians is honestly in the CPU of our devices. I have the new iPad Pro and the CPU has been crippled by core audio issues that Apple has fixed but hasn’t released a public iOS update for yet. Once that’s out I’ll be able to utilize the extra power. I’m also waiting on some devs to update their apps to support the new screen sizes like AUM. To my surprise a lot of apps worked perfectly on day 1 with the new iPad Pro like BM3.

  • @dendy said:
    just stop using IAA stuff and you will be surprised how stable iOS is :lol:

    I don’t know, AU has been a little fishy smelling lately.

  • Not sure what I've been doing lately but no crashes from anything. Lotta stuff goes wonky if I load up the AU versions.

  • Haven’t read through the entire thread, but as a guitarist myself I know exactly what you mean. Producing music on ipad/iphone is pretty straightforward, but when you insert a live guitar into the mix everything gets frustrating. The interaces, the apps, connections, settings etc. It’s always something, never as streamlined as it needs to be before losing inspiration.

    Imo, the best way to record guitar is the old fashioned way. A mic’d up amp. Open your DAW, plug in a mic, play guitar.

  • @AudioGus said:

    @dendy said:
    just stop using IAA stuff and you will be surprised how stable iOS is :lol:

    I don’t know, AU has been a little fishy smelling lately.

    Hm, true. Ok then i change it to "just stop using unstable apps" :lol:

  • edited December 2018

    I've never experienced anything so straight and simple (in guitar recording) as my iPad One sitting on it's ioDock. Start up Multitrack Daw with JamUp already placed in a channel it's less than 20 seconds from powering up, plugging the guitar in and start recording.
    IOS 5 could do this ... and still can o:)

  • Is iOS too Unstable To Make Music?....... No!..... Is iOS Too Limited To Make A Full Professional Music Production?....... Yes!..... But iOS is a great scratchpad for igetting out ideas quickly whilst your on the go, then taking your ideas over to your PC/Mac & building further your ideas.... If your a one man band, who uses a guitarist/Vocalist, & wants simple drum/bass, with a piano chords, then iOS is good enough... Too a degree(before Mastering)..... You want more then that, then no.... I Make Soulful House/Disco... & use Gadget a lot, but I only use that with minimal use (chord progression & Basslines mainly) for ideas..... As when I Make Acid House.... It’s great!...

  • @studs1966
    Limited To Make A Full Professional Music Production?....... Yes!

    Define "full professional music production".

    Isn't this for example enough full ? (I'm not asking if you like that genre of music - try to put away personal music preferences. )

    https://www.psyshop.com/Black-Hole-Storm-Ray-Subject/gre1dw148/

  • @dendy said:

    @studs1966
    Limited To Make A Full Professional Music Production?....... Yes!

    Define "full professional music production".

    Isn't this for example enough full ? (I'm not asking if you like that genre of music - try to put away personal music preferences. )

    https://www.psyshop.com/Black-Hole-Storm-Ray-Subject/gre1dw148/

    Congratulations on the release mate... B) … But a few guys here on this forum know that I work for a couple of Labels, (small & major ones) with giving them (the Record Labels) full music productions , & Remixes. For example, of Labels I do work for are: "Disco Balls Records"/"Marvient Music"/Welcome To The Weekend"/ TRAX Records, to name but a few (http://classic.beatport.com/artist/darren-studholme/621196..... http://www.kingsofspins.com/page/various_artists-trax_mission_part_2-trax_recs_chicago_house-jazzy_house.... https://www.beatport.com/artist/darren-studholme/621196).... Do I... & can I do all this work for these Labels on an iOS alone?.... The answer is no, I do & did not!... Did I use iOS help with some of the music production, then the answer would be yes!.... But as I commented about if, "Is iOS too unstable to make music?"... before... The tracks were then taken from iOS then to my PC for further work to create the "full professional music production".... If I don't get it right, especially with getting the mix correct, then I would not be used anymore with the Labels, & have become good friends with them... The music I share here on S.O.T.M.C are working Demos only. I've now had to take off over 800 tracks on Sound Cloud, & put them in Private folders (Instructed by the Label, because of illegal downloading on SC.. So now you will only see "Demo Snippets" of tracks)…. I hope that explains a little bit better, without sounding too big headed?.. It wasn't intended to be. Its was just my opinion of the title in this thread... & my thoughts on the subject.... Happy New year mate! ;)

  • I almost gave up on iOS music production, as I was getting really frustrated with midi implementation, clocks and syncing etc. I have recently returned realising that I only really needed to give up on certain apps which don't do what I would like them to.

  • We hear a lot of “just don’t use apps that are unstable”. How can one recommand a system were you have to buy stuff just to try it and if it fucks with your setup you just pass to the next perhaps shitty thing?
    What an awful way to waste money, time and on the way build up frustration.

  • edited December 2018

    @Philippe said:
    We hear a lot of “just don’t use apps that are unstable”. How can one recommand a system were you have to buy stuff just to try it and if it fucks with your setup you just pass to the next perhaps shitty thing?
    What an awful way to waste money, time and on the way build up frustration.

    This is true. But this is a relatively new platform. And Im old enough, and was an early enough adopter of computer music of any kind to remember, when I started with desktop, it was similar. Like before vst format beat out the others and the idea of only using native DAW plugins, it was a bit chaotic. At that point, Id have told you computers were not fully up to the task of doing a full production. I used a lot of outboard gear (I still do, but now clearly just out of preference rather than need).

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