Photon AU is available

Jocphone

@Carnbot said:

@Jocphone said:

@Carnbot said:
Yes good point, but there are only 4 pads and then you’d need a lot more, so the buffer is useful unless we got unlimited pads @Jocphone

Useful for what @Carnbot ? I find it really unintuitive having to shift midi around between the files, buffer and pads. Is there a proper need for the buffer that I am not seeing?

For recording more midi, when you have 4 pads full up and you want to record and swap parts around, you need the buffer...unless you get the option to add more pads when you need them. I see what you mean though. But if you could only record to pads it’s needs a lot more that’s all.

I'm not really following. What's to stop you making another instance in another track as it is AUv3?

Jocphone

@midiSequencer said:

@Jocphone said:
This is great @midiSequencer really fills a lot of gaps and the multiplier is a fantastic idea!
State saving so that a sketch or tune is automatically saved and recalled would be perfect. We're on our way to build your own DAW.
The one thing I don't get is the buffer. Why is this needed? Would it be simpler if all the operations are auctioned against the currently selected pad? That part of it is the biggest confusion for me.

Yes state saving of buffers is on my list to do. I'd like you to be able to pick up where you left off.
The buffer exists because this is primarily a recorder. You need to put that recorded midi somewhere & when pads were created (+ the groove), these suit a buffer approach.
The trick now is to allow a workflow that makes those buffers hidden (auto load after record etc)

Good to hear. That would be my number 1 wish.

Jocphone

@midiSequencer said:

@Carnbot said:
Yes good point, but there are only 4 pads and then you’d need a lot more, so the buffer is useful unless we got unlimited pads @Jocphone

I'm worried about extending this app with more pads because everything has to be done at audio buffer rates and we are taking midi files here (so midi cc, pitchblend, aftertouch). Overload it too much and you'll glitch (which is why bigger buffers are better)

I agree, I think 4 midi recordings is plenty for one track. We can use many instances over more tracks? Am a big fan of keeping things simple and clear.

midiSequencer

@j_liljedahl said:

@midiSequencer said:
Im not aware state saving includes large data like wavs or midi files? If someone knows of an app that does this I will include. Otherwise saving 5 buffers which could contain up to a million midi events might be a challenge.

There shouldn't be a problem to save MIDI data in the state. You could either embed the MIDI data directly in the state, or save the MIDI files in your app group container and just save the URL bookmark in the state (this is how AUMs FilePlayer does it).

cool, I will probably save it to my app group container as a temporary file then access as a url in state save (so in fullState/ssetFullState).

Carnbot

@Jocphone said:

@Carnbot said:

@Jocphone said:

@Carnbot said:
Yes good point, but there are only 4 pads and then you’d need a lot more, so the buffer is useful unless we got unlimited pads @Jocphone

Useful for what @Carnbot ? I find it really unintuitive having to shift midi around between the files, buffer and pads. Is there a proper need for the buffer that I am not seeing?

For recording more midi, when you have 4 pads full up and you want to record and swap parts around, you need the buffer...unless you get the option to add more pads when you need them. I see what you mean though. But if you could only record to pads it’s needs a lot more that’s all.

I'm not really following. What's to stop you making another instance in another track as it is AUv3?

Workflow really. But yes you can do that as a benefit of AUv3. But I don't want to have to start a new instance to record more midi as that's the prime function of the app.

It's better to look at Photon as a file recorder first. The pad playback features are being extended and will hopefully be improved as @midiSequencer develops it further

midiSequencer

@Mayo said:
Record and instantly loop (pre determined length - or drop out of record) would make this amazing.
I would love to record live various takes that instantly loop the moment I go out of record.
That could be a 8 min impro - plus a 2 second midi loop - plus a kick drum on grid - plus a held chord for 2mins 3 secs.

I'm not clear if this app is intended to be predominantly a looper, or a midi recorder.
I suppose I need to see some vids

It was meant to be just a record midi -> save to midi file -> share, but sort of grew from that But I'm happy to extend it further - virtually all features were requested by this group anyway.

I see extending the record/loop function as the best improvement to make.

midiSequencer

@Jocphone said:

I'm not really following. What's to stop you making another instance in another track as it is AUv3?

Indeed, I've used a 2nd instance to record all pads of the 1st too.

RajahP

Any videos anytime soon?. trying to wrap my head around the editing features..

SheffieldBleep

@SheffieldBleep said:
Ok thanks for responding. I was imagining some midi version of loopy which would work in a live setting. Need to get my head around uses for this app

@midiSequencer said:

@SheffieldBleep said:
Bug report? Aum hosted iSEM and model d. When re routing midi file from model d to iSEM model d continues to sound as a single note. No midi note off?

I don't think its possible for an au app to know if the host has rerouted its inputs or outputs - we just get an audio buffer & midi event list.
Best practice is to stop Photon playing first.

@midiSequencer said:

@Calverhall said:
Well well well, my most requested app type is finally here and it does way more than I initially wanted. Very exciting.
However, ive had a good around and read the manual and it seems it doesnt quite do what I wanted, which is to instantly loop the buffer.
My work flow doesnt require me exporting or importing midi however I am grateful that this feature is here on such a comprehensive scale. This is because I improvise with other musicians and am working towards being able to improvise a dancefloor set as if I was a DJ. Plus all my tracks are recorded live, multitracked for mixing and for fixing any terrible accidents in an otherwise satisfactory takes.

My suggestion is pre select assignments to a pad before you record, rather than after so that when the fixed length meets its end or recording stops, it begins looping immediately. Like audio loopers do generally.

Im really sorry if this sounds ungrateful, im so pleased this app exists. Just really hope this one change comes to fulfill my dream,

No, any feedback is always good for improvement.

I have the ability to record & instantly loop on my list to deliver in the next update. This should make it more of a midi looper. Later I'm adding the ability to do multi-track takes (so set length and it records to successive tracks).

Nice one. This is what I need

Carnbot

@midiSequencer said:

@Carnbot said:
Yeah when it gets visual playback, it’ll be easier to see what’s going on. I’ve had a problem where I’ve recorded some midi, trimmed it and it all looks fine, but the pad isn’t playing it all back, seems to be playing back only some if it...

I'm adding visual feedback - I agree its not clear at the moment where it is in the buffer - you have progress bars & step recording has a red line for the song pointer, but this can be improved.

Your trim issue is related to the end I think - as mentioned earlier, I'm going to add back the trim to the end and prompt for the new length to be rounded. Midi files tend to be highly non-integer lengths (e.g. 19.99765435 beats).
I'd like to add more edit features (its why the buttons are sort of clumped on the lhs & space on the right) up to but not including a piano grid editor but this is only version 1.

yeah it's great work for a v1, looking forward to more edit and live features.
I'm not saying I wouldn't want to see a full piano roll edit mode in Photon, it would make it very powerful for non daw workflow... but I can see it would be a lot of extra work. But seeing as though we don't have that option as an AU yet there's certainly a need for it in an AU.

It could even be another app in the family, eg Photon - Midi Timeline, so all the files you've saved in Photon are accessible in the timeline app for you to arrange/edit.

brambos

@midiSequencer said:

@j_liljedahl said:

@midiSequencer said:
Im not aware state saving includes large data like wavs or midi files? If someone knows of an app that does this I will include. Otherwise saving 5 buffers which could contain up to a million midi events might be a challenge.

There shouldn't be a problem to save MIDI data in the state. You could either embed the MIDI data directly in the state, or save the MIDI files in your app group container and just save the URL bookmark in the state (this is how AUMs FilePlayer does it).

cool, I will probably save it to my app group container as a temporary file then access as a url in state save (so in fullState/ssetFullState).

Keep in mind that this will make it more of a hassle if you ever decide to let users share AU presets. You'll have two separate files to manage.

midiSequencer

@RajahP said:
Any videos anytime soon?. trying to wrap my head around the editing features..

Will see if I have time today - I've started coding again
Editing is based around tidying up the internal buffer
trim = remove all events up to start of first note so it begins at 0
crop = drag a selection on the display and it will remove the non-selected parts - resizes the buffer (so i've an improvement to make to trim to trailing & ask if you want it integer length)
clear set = drag a selection on the display and it will clear the selected parts leaving a gap
clean = remove all non-note midi from the buffer
quantise rotary - pick type : start+dur, start, duration, and select a time (e.g. 1/4) and it will reshuffle notes (only notes) to that time division (e.g. 0.25 beat intervals). It has its own Apply button
Length - dial in a desired integer length (in beats) and hit Apply.

It all works on the internal buffer only.

midiSequencer

@brambos said:
Keep in mind that this will make it more of a hassle if you ever decide to let users share AU presets. You'll have two separate files to manage.

good point so noted. I'm not really using Presets at the moment (there are none built in), but they are there to store my AU Parameters

midiSequencer

@brambos

actually while you're here - is there anyway you get notification of host channel reroutes in an AU App? How to cope with users changing in AUM say?

RajahP

@midiSequencer said:

@RajahP said:
Any videos anytime soon?. trying to wrap my head around the editing features..

Will see if I have time today - I've started coding again
Editing is based around tidying up the internal buffer
trim = remove all events up to start of first note so it begins at 0
crop = drag a selection on the display and it will remove the non-selected parts - resizes the buffer (so i've an improvement to make to trim to trailing & ask if you want it integer length)
clear set = drag a selection on the display and it will clear the selected parts leaving a gap
clean = remove all non-note midi from the buffer
quantise rotary - pick type : start+dur, start, duration, and select a time (e.g. 1/4) and it will reshuffle notes (only notes) to that time division (e.g. 0.25 beat intervals). It has its own Apply button
Length - dial in a desired integer length (in beats) and hit Apply.

It all works on the internal buffer only.

Ok.. can you save your edited ‘buffer’? I guess the video will do good.. thanks..

brambos

@midiSequencer said:
@brambos

actually while you're here - is there anyway you get notification of host channel reroutes in an AU App? How to cope with users changing in AUM say?

If I understand your question correctly: no. The host feeds you stuff, and where it comes from is completely opaque; i.e. could come from other sources or be generated by the host itself, etc.

The channel routing paradigm in AUM is an intrinsic AUM-concept which is not part the AU format. Other hosts use different conceptual models for routing MIDI.

skiphunt

Pulled the trigger on this last night and went for intuitive use only. Completely lost.

Read most of the manual and didn’t get any further. Initially thinking I’d made a mistake and wondered why there wasn’t just a simple “quick start” tutorial or something, then looked at the latter part of the manual and found the quick starts.

Got going quickly after that and realized there’s loads of potential here. But, I think I’m gonna a need some demo videos.

Though, I’m likely just making it more complicated than it really is. And, many of the suggestions in this thread make good sense now.

+1 for visual feedback.

JohnnyGoodyear

@skiphunt said:
Pulled the trigger on this last night and went for intuitive use only. Completely lost.

Read most of the manual and didn’t get any further. Initially thinking I’d mace a mistake and wondered why there wasn’t just a simple “quick start” tutorial or something, then looked at the latter part of the manual and found the quick starts.

Got going quickly after that and realized there’s loads of potential here. But, I think I’m gonna a need some demo videos.

Though, I’m likely just making it more complicated than it really is. And, many of the suggestions in this thread make good sense now.

+1 for visual feedback.

Bought of course, but will wait for vids before even opening and confusing self/losing heart Have read the thread so far and feel pretty sure I will be agreeing as regards the visual feedback.....good luck to you @midiSequencer ! It's fun seeing an obviously useful piece of thing being workshopped in real time

Jumpercollins

Found a novel way of send Photon pad midi out to Rozeta ARP then onto a AU instrument with some pretty way out results.

midiSequencer

@RajahP said:
Ok.. can you save your edited ‘buffer’? I guess the video will do good.. thanks..

Editing is on the internal buffer - its this thats saved (no other can be).
This picture shows that.....

midiSequencer

@brambos said:

@midiSequencer said:
@brambos

actually while you're here - is there anyway you get notification of host channel reroutes in an AU App? How to cope with users changing in AUM say?

If I understand your question correctly: no. The host feeds you stuff, and where it comes from is completely opaque; i.e. could come from other sources or be generated by the host itself, etc.

The channel routing paradigm in AUM is an intrinsic AUM-concept which is not part the AU format. Other hosts use different conceptual models for routing MIDI.

thought so - which means for midi you could get a note-on cut-off before note off

midiSequencer

@JohnnyGoodyear said:
Bought of course, but will wait for vids before even opening and confusing self/losing heart Have read the thread so far and feel pretty sure I will be agreeing as regards the visual feedback.....good luck to you @midiSequencer ! It's fun seeing an obviously useful piece of thing being workshopped in real time

thats why I credited it using this forum - where else can you get to design your own app!

I have my view of what it needs to do, and thats basically quick capture of midi from Quantum or a Keyboard and save it for editing later. I work best that way, recording snippets - there are so many editors out there I just need to capture.

I understand people wanting a looper though - record/overdub/have fun - loopy for midi, so will surely extend this more.

Groove for me has opened up transforming midi phrases into sequences - quantisation by laying out notes end to end like a step sequencer in reverse, and its fun too!

midiSequencer

@Jumpercollins said:
Found a novel way of send Photon pad midi out to Rozeta ARP then onto a AU instrument with some pretty way out results.

yeah, its just a midi fx processor - once I get record->auto play I can see lots of realtime generative uses, especial since you can tweak start beat/duration of playback to play a la granular!

SevenSystems

@midiSequencer said:

Let me guess: you learned software development in university!

Harro

Thank you very much @midiSequencer for Photon AU! For me, it makes AUM even better as the best tool for experimenting with sounds. This afternoon I fed SpaceCraft and Layr with a Scarlatti sonata midi file in Photon's Pad 1 with a Tempo Div of 1/8 and I can't stop listening...

espiegel123

@midiSequencer : if you do loop/auto-play, maybe it could also allow overdubbing while looping?

midiSequencer

@SevenSystems said:
Let me guess: you learned software development in university!

I did, but that was 4 years before midi was standardised in 1983
I mostly do test management these days in my 'real' job - still planning to do mobile full time though before I go senile!

midiSequencer

@Harro said:
Thank you very much @midiSequencer for Photon AU! For me, it makes AUM even better as the best tool for experimenting with sounds. This afternoon I fed SpaceCraft and Layr with a Scarlatti sonata midi file in Photon's Pad 1 with a Tempo Div of 1/8 and I can't stop listening...

Classical midi processed via the pads can be great - try them with a simple groove first too (e.g 1 note, 1 rest) - it alters it in a sublime way.

JohnnyGoodyear

@Harro said:
Thank you very much @midiSequencer for Photon AU! For me, it makes AUM even better as the best tool for experimenting with sounds. This afternoon I fed SpaceCraft and Layr with a Scarlatti sonata midi file in Photon's Pad 1 with a Tempo Div of 1/8 and I can't stop listening...

Very inspiring. I imagine you somewhere peaceful, by a lake or a canal maybe, small white china coffee cups, a sense of order in the evolving world...

midiSequencer

@espiegel123 said:
@midiSequencer : if you do loop/auto-play, maybe it could also allow overdubbing while looping?

thats the plan