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Comments
At least a mouse would mean the screen should stay cleaner !
Although I can somehow agree with you from the design perspective. Let's not forget that this will be an option and that it's standard opt-out. Only people who want to can put it on.
BTW the mouse option was once also possible on jailbroken devices. I remember that I had it on a jailbroke device years ago. Had it also installed but hardly used it at the time. Probably also due that App GUIs were at that time still much clearer. Nowadays you have apps like ie those by Apesoft that have so much going on and some elements are even very small on an 9.7 iPad. That I'm very curious to use the with a mouse.
Think it should quite easy to implement for Apple.
Youtube movie of the mousecursor app (2012)
I understand that a mouse will theoretically help with UIs with too much going on in the GUI for touch-control. But aren't we solving the wrong problem there (seeing how apps should be pleasantly usable with touch in the first place)?
I thoroughly agree with Bram. I think people don't appreciate also that on the OS side that maintaining and moving forward innovative touch-based features becomes messier and more difficult if you are also having to support/maintain mouse-type interaction.
Big desktop developers--who have much more influence than small developers-- will have short-sighted goal of doing non-touch ports of their desktop apps and likely influence OS choices in a way that will be unfortunate.
I really hope Apple resists the temptation to turn iPads into nothing more than an ultralight notebook with a touchscreen .
The problem is: it's not an "on-top-of" option. Mouse support is a "conflicting" option. Either you design for touch, or you design for mouse. You can't have both without ending up with a suboptimal solution for one or the other. iOS really doesn't need that kind of schizofrenia because it will only lead to more fragmentation.
Would I need to, when suddenly a large part of the market starts demanding support for desktop-like UIs with tons of highly precise fiddly settings and accuse us iOS developers of "dumbing down" our products? That's a real risk.
If anything, iOS music needs to set itself apart from the desktop/laptop world if it doesn't want to perish; because iOS sucks at being exactly like a laptop - especially compared to actual laptops
It risks becoming like a Surface, but even more crappy.
But for now it's just unsubstantiated rumors. So let's wait and see.
The mouse is the very reason I've moved from mac os to ios but happy for others to rejoice, truth or fiction.
To all sceptics of the cursor support in iOS. I got the impression that you all don't see what Apple is working on. MacOS and iOS will be merged in the near furture and ron on ARM processors. We will see phone, tablets and notebooks run on the same Apple OS. Also don't forget that MacOS devices are nowadays a very small piece (7% in 2018) of Apple's the total turnover. Besides that Apple hardly making any money from the MacOS appstore because you still can install software from other places. So why should you use the MacOS Appstore and give Apple a piece of your profit... It's clear that Apple will in the end move to an IOS like Appstore with the impossiblity to install apps that are not in the Appstore and make all developers pay for licenses and a part of their profits. It's in the end all about money.
I really don’t get those of us arguing for mouse support on iPad. It’s like buying a motorbike and wishing it had 4-wheel-drive, a gear stick and a roof. Daft. As @brambos said; touchscreen is a different paradigm that requires different design and different ways of working. If you want a desktop workflow, maybe an iPad isn’t the solution.
I understand your points and you and @brambos are right. But I think @mannix makes a strong point. Apple will merge MacOS and iOS. Want to add to @mannix points that Apple just needs to go ARM because the current dependence on Intel leads more and more to problems and Apple has there own in house superpowerfull chip. It's about total control of the production cycle and of course money. The first step in this process is make iOS more like MacOS with a serious filesharing system (a development that is already in development) and of course introduction of mouse. It's also just easier for Apple to develop iOS in a complete OS than the other way around. MacOS is quite a mess in comparison with iOS.
I'm not arguing for mouse support. My point is that it's the just logical step for Apple in merging iOS and MacOS. In the near future Apple will move away from Intel and use one OS that rules them all.
Aka hard mode?
I don't get it. If the apps that could benefit from a mouse weren't already on iOS i would understand but... We have DAW's and samplers already that would be so much faster to work with if there was mouse support.
I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but the physical keyboard is not conflicting with the on-screen keyboard, conceptually, because both work the same, look the same and give the same level of precision. The only difference is that one is displayed on the screen and the other one is made physical, but this distinction does not require an app to be designed differently.
The difference between a finger and a mouse is much more significant. So, yes, there is a genuine difference between hooking up a keyboard and hooking up a mouse when it comes to the design and workflow of an app, unfortunately.
I think the difference could even be quantified using Fitts's Law, if we were to get really academic about it
Yup yup yup. First thing I thought of was my friend who was way too old to still have his training wheels on but eventually when they were taken off he quickly became a world champion BMX trick... guy thingy, true story.
I love using my ipad while walking around and if Ios DAW 2021 was designed with a mouse handicap, lazy design backup excuse cop out then the dream of the struttin beat stitcher is over.
Mac and iOS won’t merge. If they do it would be a takeover not a merger.
Two years ago Apple held. A ‘town hall’ meeting to discuss where they’d gone wrong with the trash can Mac Pro and how they designed themselves into a thermal corner. They also went out of their way to reassure people that the Mac wasn’t forgotten and that pro macs were still a very important product for them.
I think Apple lost their way but also think that they realised that and have corrected their course.
Intel have been a major headache for them and Apple have shown they are capable of designing serious silicon.
So macOS on ARM makes sense.
Marzipan apps make sense too. As long as they’re not like Apple’s first examples which are truly dreadful Mac apps. Being able to write an app for iOS and Mac with UIKit alone makes sense as long as UIKit adds proper native macOS support.
At the moment a developer needs to use UIKIt for iOS and tvOS and appkit for macOS. Having only one ‘kit’ going forward makes sense from an Apple development point of view and it would make it easier for Apple to maintain. It would be an advantage for many developers on iOS to write native Mac apps if they could develop it all with the same frameworks — they would ‘just’ need to make a new Ui for the Mac in the same way they can make different UIs for iPhone and iPad.
But this doesn’t mean that having a mouse and pointer makes sense on iOS. It doesn’t. iOS is a multi touch device with direct manipulation. The disconnect and indirect nature of the mouse is completely wrong for a touch based system. You can’t multi-click with a mouse and the direct touch what you want to manipulate aspect of iOS is what makes it so easy for people to understand.
And it doesn’t make sense for macos to get touch support either. I have an iMac at work. If I had to touch the screen (and NOBODY TOUCHES MY MAC SCREEN!) my arm would ache in no time.
There will undoubtedly be some convergence but macOS will remain macOS and iOS will remain iOS.
But they will one day probably all run on Apple designed ARM processors.
To the degree that there are apps that seem like they would benefit from mouse support, I think most of those issues fall into two categories:
Since a lot of programmers are deeply rooted in desktop experiences, they often design their apps without really fully embracing touch-based solutions.
I think this leads to some of the poor u.i experiences that lead people to want to use a mouse without realizing that the reason they feel like the my need a mouse is because some software designer didn't think through a touch-based solution.
I thought it was clear that I was too.
I’m not concerned about coding implications at all.
Hav'nt read all thread here, but, for me it's better to go the other way around, make Mac OS touchbased with a Macbook Pro built just like Microsofts Surface Pro...
I would easy pay $3000 for an nice Macbook Pro with pencil support and detachable keyboard (make it a tablet)...
Was gonna mention this. Most things on desktops aren’t designed with touch in mind so there are 0 accommodations for it.
I don’t think mouse support should be added universally to iOS for the sake of “its not a real laptop replacement.” Yes some apps would benefit from it of course but overall it wouldn’t be a good look. They can add it but don’t make it a requirement. Hoping it’s only an accessibility add on. Honestly, just give me dark mode and a better file management system that supports some kind external hard drive and I’m good.
I would too. Much of Logic Pro X already seems pretty touchable to me.
I sincerely hope they don’t do this. It makes no sense at all.. what’s next, making all the devices longer and adding a trackpad?
Lot of nonsense in this thread, Android has had mouse support forever, there has never been an Android app released that "needs" the mouse, that is just silly, all apps are always designed on Android with touch in mind in the first instance, in fact the mouse is only useful when it is useful and touch is still much more useful, so lets look at that as an actual real world example vs scaremongering.
I’ve heard they’re even thinking of bringing the keyboard to iOS. An actual qwerty keyboard! If they do this, probably by means of a soft keyboard first, I can’t think how this would destroy the essence of iOS, which is all about icons and emoji, not those letters and numbers and glyphs. They’ll probably even put a carriage return key on it! Carriage return! There’s no carriage. That’d be insane. What’s next? Being able to change the ribbon?
I wouldn’t mind occasionally using my iPhone as a trackpad for iPad
Good point! I read the whole thread for a 2nd time. Making da mouse available on iOS should be no problem. No need to worry that mouse support will be the end of iOS. It's just an interesting extra for some people. Like the pencil that also only lets you use one touchpoint. Don't see the problem.
You can argue that a mouse ins't needed, but it makes zero sense to argue that it shouldn't be optional. Murophobia?