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Oops, I guess I missed the part he was asking about single notes vs multiple. I was just assuming it was monophonic, as there'd be no way to extract multiple voices from a live audio source.
Yeah, one must understand the differences between monophony, paraphony and polyphony to get satisfactory behavior from these envelopes.
If a mono signal is all that’s being affected, then a single env will suffice. Or if a trance style gate for stabs is needed, a single envelope will be fine as well.
For polyphony, one would need to duplicate the voice multiple times and set up round robin midi note dispatching.
Anyone remembers TB DualVCF that was introduced not too long ago?
https://apps.apple.com/en/app/tb-dualvcf/id1505169270?l=en
Thanks for clearing that up.
It’s obviously much more complicated than I thought!
Are you suggesting this might do the job?
Only for the filter part, I hoped it would allow to shape the volume in "Passthrough" mode (like the VCA mode in Audio Damage Filterstation) but unfortunately it doesn't.
Back to Drambo
Takes a minute to wrap your head around the signal flow for sure, but with practice it'll all become clearer! I do a lot of Frankenstein polysynth patching in Aum with many different ADSR's and filters, so I'll try to make a video going over different envelopes as well as a few varied applications for them. Don't know when, but if I do I'll post here.
Dare to explain what exactly you're after?
What we need is a modular synth where the modules can be audio units.
Drambo and miRack!
In the iOS world that would mean yet another host since an AUv3 can not host another AUv3.
I think both AUM and apeMatrix offer enough routing capabilities and honestly something like miRack AUv3 is already enough to get anyone started and there's a sh*t load of modules already
But as a plain AUv3 effect something like the Polyverse Gatekeeper is something that we still miss on iOS...
(I would not be surprised at all if Polyverse releases Gatekeeper for iOS).
All you need is polythemus at the MIDI end splitting each note into its own channel.
Duplicate the synths producing the notes, with their own ADSR plugin on the same channel.
This is how you can achieve a Polyphonic iVCS3 for instance.
With AUv3 synths it is possible to create a setup where you have an instance of the AUv3 synth for each voice. You would then need to send MIDI for each note in a chord to its corresponding instance. Fugue Machine is an example of a MIDI generator app that can send out its four voices on four separate output streams. You would send the MIDI output for the voice to the corresponding AUv3 synth and effect app on the track.
Playbeat and Photon are some other AUv3 apps that can generate different outputs for each voice.
Mozaic scripts can also be used for these types of tasks. As an aside, there’s an excellent script for turning Fractal Bits from just a percussive instrument into an instrument that can be played chromatically.
FAC Envolver can be used to create custom envelopes from an audio source which can then be used to control another synth’s parameters via MIDI. You can adjust the controls in the app to set how closely it follows the volume profile of the audio input. Alternatively, it can apply its own envelopes directly to audio input (similar to Perforator). The app can also generate a sequence of MIDI notes based on gating where you adjust the controls to modify the sequence of notes output.
Sparkle by apeSoft allows you to use one audio source as an envelope for another audio source. You can for example, combine a piano piece with a drum loop to get a mixture of the two sources.
Photon can do the MIDI version of this by using one MIDI file to effect the groove of another MIDI file.
Such setups will use more of your devices resources so it’s a good idea to be clear about why you want to use an external effect app to control the envelope rather than using the synth app’s own built in envelope functionality.
When Audulus 4 is released, it will have built-in and user created modules available as AUv3 instances. Mozaic is a MIDI version of this. MidiFire can host AUv3 MIDI apps so it can be used to create mega MIDI patches and route them to/from your existing setups.
@TimRussell , to understand this better, it may help if you understand what's going on with the midi and audio signals. Your app without the ADSR is receiving multiple midi note events, processing each of them individually, then sending out one mixed audio stream that is the combination of all the sounds it's generating. Once the mixed audio leaves the app there's no way to pick it apart and act on the individual notes that made up the combined sound.
It's like trying to re-mix individual stems if all you have is a stereo master. Or like trying to reduce the amount of salt after it's already mixed in with the soup.
In order to individually affect notes the synth has to do it internally before outputting the sound. Only it can modify the envelope of the individual sounds before mixing them together and sending them out.
So, what some have suggested is to split the midi notes up between multiple instances of the app, each only processing one note, then placing your envelope after each one. There's an app called Polythemus that can distribute the midi like this. There may be a few Mozaic scripts as well.
I'm guessing this is more trouble than you were expecting though. But, I thought it might be helpful to try to explain why it's not as easy as it seems like it should be.
One way to sort of "fake" this is to use a transient detector like FAC Envolver. Envolver reacts to peaks in the sound feeding into it. If the peak goes above a certain point then Envolver sends out midi messages following an envelope. These can be sent to a control such as a fader to make the sound dip / swell whenever it peaks. In the case of a staggered chord, each note would produce a volume peak, triggering the envelope, and thus the volume. But that volume change would be applied to the whole stream, so it's only vaguely similar to what you're looking for.
Thanks @wim
Very helpful as always.
I just remembered that Pure Synth has ADSR built in so I might see if I can get some satisfaction with the sounds in that.
@TimRussell: take a look at Kuvert, by Klevgrand : https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/kuvert-swedish-envelopes/id1052691394. IAA only, apparently has some reported issues in Audiobus, (I don’t know, I rarely use it) but works great for me in AUM. Might be what you want.
@wim, try putting a potato in the soup. Absorbs salt. Where there’s a tuber there’s a way!
Thanks @LinearLineman , that's a very ap-pealing idea. Not half-baked at all.
Was anything ever solved? I messed around with Drambo and I am getting some of what I would hope for.
There should be a simple app that listens to incoming audio, applies the ADSR to the signal.
My goal would be some washy guitar delay effects without having to constantly use a volume pedal to get the swells.
Anything out there for that?
How about Flux Mini? It has a one-shot mode I believe, and you easily draw and manipulate the curve over time.
Or FAC Envolver and send the midi to automate sends, levels etc.
http://fredantoncorvest.com/FAC_Envolver.html
Do you have iVCS3? It comes bundled with several modules. Those modules are: VCF, VCO, NOISE, REVREB, and most relevant for your purpose ENVELOPE. The envelope is just A(S)D I believe. But it's it goes in the fx slot, and it can be triggered by midi. I used it a lot before Drambo came out.
And AudioDamage Filterstation 2 has a VCA mode. Don't know how that one works though with midi. Don't have it yet.
I still stand by Drambo being the best midi ADSR option
@aleyas I do not have iVCS3. I have pondered that one for a while. I am trying to work with just audio though and not bring midi into it.
That may not be possible.
How would you expect it to work?
An ADSR is nothing without appropriate triggers which don't exist in an audio signal.
Velvet Machine can somewhat fit, though not exactly it’s purpose there is a preset called ADSR.
Also Attack Softener but this is obviously only the attack part of ADSR
I think like an amplitude envelope as an AU, maybe. I’m guessing what he’s thinking, but it’s something I’ve considered before.
Also FAC Transient is another good option
Sure but again, how would it be triggered?
Of course you could generate triggers from analyzing audio level etc. but it would likely trigger the envelope all around the place.
And modifying an amplitude envelope is what compressors and expanders do.