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Comments
A gate with attack, hold and release might work, something similar to FF Pro-G?
Are you familiar with Blue Mangoo’s Attack Softener? It basically automatically smooths the attack of any sound - perfect for those volume swells you mentioned.
https://apps.apple.com/vn/app/attack-softener/id1504605178
Alternatively.. Drambo has a module called ‘transient detector’. It will listen for an incoming audio signal, and generate a gate. The gate could trigger an audio ADSR, which you could give a long attack time. That might work.
*already mentioned *
I actually got some desired results using Tonestack PolyOCT. The amp attack can can work on the dry signal as well. I chained a couple of those together and it created a little of the swell I was looking for.
@aleyas I will check out the dramobo transient detector.
@rs2000 I would expect the audio to trigger it.
@aleyas Attack Softener might work as well.
Sure but how?
Fixed level thresholds?
Certain frequency content?
Certain level slew rates?
@rs2000 Dont really know. I am not a programmer. haha. Maybe all the above? BlueMangoo seems to have it pretty close with their Attack Softener app. I haven't bought it yet but I most likely will.
@aleyas I am trying the Drambo approach. The Transient Detector seems to only pass the transient of the sound through. It doesn't open up like I had expected. I guess from the name it just detects the transient but doesn't pass the audio through it. When I chain it together with an Amp ADSR I just get a pluck sound.
I was just testing it myself. It may be the envelope you are using. Try the AMP AD module instead. Also, route audio directly from your source to the envelope itself. Don't pass the audio from the transient detector. That way, both the transient detector and the AD envelope are receiving the same audio signal. I also found that when I passed audio from the transient detector to the envelope, it wasn't working great either.
@aleyas Attack Softener did the trick. What an amazingly simple app but when used with the right effects can be ambient heaven.
Topic for my next video.
Looking forward to it! I also love that attack softener. It can do some cool things depending where you put it your fx chain too.
try new free app - intensifier https://apps.apple.com/ru/app/intensifier-auv3/id1573201268
also in combination with limiter and various effects this plugin incredibly transforms sound
Not really sure, I was thinking the audio signal but like you said there’s issues.
seems FF Saturn 2 will do the best with this. In dry preset (if saturation not needed) set the Envelope generator or Envelope follower sources (or both at once) to modulate output level. There are enough settings available for accurate sound shaping.
you are the best 👍
and it reads midi wow
Hi @wim, that MIDi ADSR script is yours? I have loaded it in Mozaic inside Loopy Pro and it doesn't passing MIDI out. Could I ask you for advice?
Hi @filo01 - Are you trying to send midi out by moving the XY pad?
That's not what the script does. The XY pad is only used as a visual indication of the envelope output. It's not set up to send anything out when you move the pad.
I've verified that the script is sending envelope controlled midi out in response to notes received from a controller. If you'd like to see it working differently or if my guess at the confusion about how it should work is wrong, please let me know.
If you do want the XY pad to send out midi when you move it, I could provide the few lines of code to add to the script to enable that.
No, I didn't touch XY pad, just played notes on my MIDI keyboard and trying to find out how it your scriipt worked.
I can't catch exact screenshot, but can say that MIDI LED and XY pad is responding to my play but there is no output signal from Mozaic to MIDI AU (beatHawk, KQSampei, ..) which I have in Loopy destination slot. Mozaic instance is OK because e.g. CurveMaker script works flawlessly.
Maybe I misunderstood a purpose of your script because I know only basics about MIDI. I don't have a sustain pedal and my thought is to use your script to increase sustain of playing notes. Can this script do that or do I need something else?
I'm positive that the CC output is coming from the script. I'm pretty sure you just don't have that output mapped to any control in those apps. You have to set up a mapping to the parameters that you want to control.
Maybe it will help if you think of it this way: You hit a note on your controller. The script then sends a stream of midi CC values that follows an envelope that you set with the knobs. The XY pad gives a sort of visualization of those values on the Y axis.
Those CC values don't do anything until they're mapped to a control on a plugin. You could, say, set that CC to control a mixer fader or a volume or filter cutoff knob on a synth. If you do, you will see that control move in response to the envelope. The envelope output can only "turn knobs", it doesn't affect sound on its own.
So yes, I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding regarding using it to increase the sustain of playing notes. There's nothing about this script that affects audio directly. If you have a synth that's playing short notes, or a short sample, you can't stretch that out.
I'm probably not explaining it very well. The best I can offer is to think in terms of moving knobs or faders. If there's a control in a plugin that can do what you want, then you use the midi output of this script to move that knob or fader when you hit a note. If not, then it won't help.
@filo01 . It looks like the script sends the ADSR waveform on a MIDI CC, currently CC20. You would need to use that CC to modify a parameter in the synth you're using. The script could not modify the MIDI Note messages, since they are just On and Off, with Velocity. Since your synths already have envelopes that determine how the notes decay, you could not extend sustain or release with an external script.
A script that could manipulate CC64 (sustain) might do what you want, but it will work on all notes, not each note individually.
@wim may have other suggestions.
Humm ... I suppose if you set the script to send CC 64, you could have a sort of "auto sustain" pedal.
That would be the same as pressing a sustain pedal when playing a note, then releasing it some number of milliseconds later, I think.
I had to be more precise in my initial question, sorry for that. My "synth" where I would like to extend sustain a little bit is Ravenscroft piano (see in my LP screenshot above). Path Mozaic-Ravenscroft is mapped correctly, I checked it with Curve scriptand it works as expected. I set all values for ADSR as @wim described (vel, attack, decay, CC64, ...) but still don't see any MIDI output from Mozaic.
Thank you for your patience.
No need to apologize! It's hard to frame questions.
I need to ask for clarification ... how are you judging that you don't see any MIDI output from Mozaic?
Try this: Set the sustain to the maximum time. Now play two or three notes one after the other but close together than the sustain time. Do they sustain over one-another?
Keep in mind that Sustain doesn't make notes last for ever. It only means that they don't release when you release a key. If the Ravenscroft note decays quickly on its own then it will still decay quickly. It just won't be cut off as soon as you let up on the key.
If you're interested in verifying for sure whether or not the script is outputting midi, you can route the output to a midi monitor.
MIDISpy is a nice, free one, if you're on iPad. If not, then Streambyter is also free, though more technical. You tap the magnifying glass icon to get to the monitor in Streambyter.
I think you'll find that you're getting midi cc output. If so then the answer lies in figuring out where the midi being output isn't having the effect that you're expecting.
From Mozaic with your script loaded. Because there is no activity in Mozaic channel strip although MIDi in (LPK25) sent signal itto Mozaic mixer channel:
I used MIDI Monitor, here is a result:
The second monitor (output from Mozaic) recorded huge amount of messages (1014) for just one note-on, note-off . Only difference in lines is in the Time column (it is not visible in screenshot), there is a repeated pattern 131, 67, 3, 195.
That midi monitor output is showing that the script is sending out midi like it what it should.
Loopy's midi output "level meter" only reflects note velocity, not CC outputs. You can see this if you add something like Rozeta LFO as a midi input. No levels will be reflected in the meter even if Rozeta LFO is running and is outputting midi.
As for the huge number of messages from one midi note, that's expected behavior.
Now that you have a midi monitor set up, try setting some short envelope times, such as maybe 40ms or less. Set Attack velocity to 127 and sustain velocity to 64. Set the CC to someNow hit a short note. You should see cc values ascending from zero to 127, ramping back down to 64 and staying there for awhile, then ramping back down to zero. That's your envelope.
If you map that midi to a knob or fader (change it to something other than CC 64 so it's not seen as sustain first), you should see that control move according to the adsr envelope.
OK, I'm totally lost now. You said your script works but if I load it into Mozaic I hear nothing from Ravenscroft. If I load different script into Mozaic, everything works (hear audio from Ravenscroft). So do you know where is the core of my issue? I only know that I need to pass Note-In Note-Out thru Mozaic to Ravenscroft along with some sustain message but now note-in and note-off are somehow blocked by your script. (I guess).
I feel I definitely need to learn some MIDI theory.
The script takes Note On/Off messages in, and generates an ADSR waveform on the selected CC. You need to also route the Note messages directly to the synth for it to play notes.
Ahhh! That version (v1.1) doesn't pass notes through. It wasn't intended to originally. It was intended that you would route the controller notes in parallel to a synth if you did want the notes. You could do this now by adding an output from your controller to Ravenscroft in addition to the existing Mozaic routing.
The odd thing is I did a v1.2 that gives the option to pass notes through or block them. But it seems I never uploaded that one. I don't remember why I never uploaded it. Hopefully it wasn't due to bugs.
Let me upload that one and you can try it out. Hold my beer ...