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Just to throw a bit more fuel, didn't the Loopytunes developer who created the Akai MPC software too, quit everything and go and work for Apple
Has everything to do with Windows. FCPX and Logic have an immense marketshare on Mac.
Yup. He's who help Marcos to put pan o samplr
jk
Actually many people switch from windows to mac just because of Logic ... for example me
)) Which is funny because shortly after i bought Mac just for Logic, i switched to iOS and never returned back to desktop 
)) But using Mac still for my work (which is coding)
To the topic - i don't think we will see something like Logic for iOS sooner than 2022... those are all just wild guesses and speculations. I really don't believe this is interesting market for Apple for now...2022/23 in imho.
A lot of this was discussed in 2017 on this very forum:
https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/21994/a10x-is-as-powerful-as-2014-top-of-the-line-i7-4770hq-processor-ios-could-handle-pro-logic-projects/p1
As I've said before in this thread, on PAPER the iPads of the last two years (maybe even longer) can theoretically run the full code version of Logic Pro. But without addressing the thermal throttling issue it won't happen.
And comparing graphics apps & DAW's is truly apples and oranges. LumaFusion and other big photo/video apps have tremendous help from the iPads GPU, audio programs like DAW's cannot. It would take alteration of the code way beyond my pay grade to even discuss to get the GPU to fit into the audio processing scheme.
Yes, high class GPU's and audio specific HD audio processing like those found in Universal Audios Apollo line & ProTools HD rigs have similar architecture but they're designed for those specific purposes.
That's what would put a huge load on the iOS processor, in addition to the larger size & architecture of the full Logic Pro code. A project gets complex on a Mac, the fans come on & the thermal heat sink/dissipation features do their thing. You get a 50 track, multiple plugin complex project going on a supposed iOS Logic DAW the iPad either uses thermal throttling or the iPad case sears your hands & thighs, etc. So you wind up with a gimped DAW that is NOT Logic on iOS. If the projects aren't interchangeable much of the lure of getting a new user base to iOS disappears. Much like that of devs rushing to create new plug ins. A "maybe get 14 tracks with no more than 4 plugins per channel" version of Logic for iOS frankly sounds lame.
That's my point. Yeah, we may get some sort of souped up next gen GarageBand DAW called "Logic for iOS" but it won't have 100% parity with the desktop version of Logic Pro making project porting suspect at best. There will still be two
different DAW's.
This new article points to where I think it's going:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/3/30/21199822/apple-logic-pro-x-leaked-image-garageband-ios-features-live-loops
iOS would get an upgraded GarageBand more akin to the desktop version, and Logic Pro on Mac would get a facility that would enable projects made on the iOS "SuperGarageBand"
to be imported into Logic Pro projects. There would be no vice versa (desktop project into iOS GB).
The photo leak and opinions in that Verge piece are more reliable to me than some tweet a random self proclaimed Apple expert made.
Again, all just the way I see it. I'm trying to prop up my opinion with some facts and reasoning, that's all. Hopefully facts aren't an endangered species now in the music technology sphere as they are elsewhere...
@jacou : A “Super GarageBand Pro would be fine by me. If we could mix and match time signatures , get a temp track and some new smart instruments, guitars etc, I’d be glad .
I believe if anybody can bring LPX to iPad, it will be Apple...laughing out loud.
Now let’s make some sense, at least for a second.
GarageBand on Mac....
GarageBand on iOS...
Is anyone following?
Logic Pro X on Mac...
Logic Pro X on iOS...
What about now?
In case you are not, here’s my OPINION on how it could possibly go.
What if LPX on iOS costs money like LPX on Mac
Now what if garageband on iOS is free, just like GarageBand on Mac...oh it is.
What if Logic Pro on iOS is kinda like GarageBand on iOS only with more features, and better in built effects and instruments, a full version of alchemy? After all Apple has been redesigning the plug ins in LPX for a year or two now. Maybe we are not thinking properly, by using the past. GarageBand on iOS is nowhere close to as powerful as garageband on Mac. It is optimized for the devices it runs on. I hate to say it but Apple doesn’t add alot of extra sauce to GB mobile, and it still manages to do quite a nice job of being stable and recording projects... even better I might add, than almost all the competitors! I mean it’s still the first app in my list. I have confidence that Apple could really bring it, buckle up.
I have always known tablets are replacing computers since iPad 1.
I used to get so many rebuttals in forums, for defending the iPad as a serious platform. I have always said the tablet is going to replace the desktop and laptop...I STILL THINK ITS SO. Because resistance is futile! Things change my friends...just like when this lockdown is over.
Hope everyone is having a safe and healthy day!
I just don't care to look through all of the menus or try to figure out how to use all of the editing modes of Logic on a touch device. I'd dearly love to have several of Logic's features on my iPad but "Logic iOS" as a pure port sounds like absolute hell to use.
Moog's Minimoog app is fantastic on iOS. The original thing has a very limited feature set and it's way more fun to mess with it via touch UI than it ever could be with a mouse. In contrast, just consider the number of options available via right click on any given item within the Logic UI (before you've even recorded anything!) and then multiply that out my the number of possible items in a given Logic session. MEH. I have a computer with a keyboard and mouse already.
Now, if they paid @brambos a crap ton of money, gave him the Logic and Garageband code bases and said "Do something useful with all of this", I'd be paying attention.
I believe the ui would be different for ios as it is for gb as it stands.
@JRSIV
This is not issue of CPU power... i'm not sure if people really understand how much capable is iPAD A12 CPU in case that code is PROPERLY optimalised. Even with single core audio thread (but you can use for some cases also multiple cores now, it's not true it is completely impossible - there are things in realtime audio where you CAN utilise multicore performance)
Properly optimised app - like written in C(++) and arm assembler, using advanced optimisation techniques - can handle really a LOT. Of course, if app is build in Swift and it is using various libraries and frameworks of questionnable quality, it then makes impression that current iOS CPUs aren't powerful enough..
Truth is, people were using Logic on way much weaker computers than iPads released in last 2 years (those with A12+ CPUs). Or other apps.. do you remember how much was capable REASON 1 on totally ridiculous old Processors with 2GB ram ?
Two good examples of state of the art CPU usage fine tuned apps are miRack and Nanostudio 2. Based on my first test looks like Drambo is similiar league. Also BramBos plugins are brutally efficient. You can run a hell lot of them on 1-2 years old devices.
Reason, why i think Logic will NOT arrive soon on iOS, is NOT issue of insufficient CPU/RAM.
It's matter of UI design (to preserve at least 30% - 40% of Logic features in iOS version would be pretty complicated in terms of good UI/UX desing).
But there is other, basically MAJOR reason - problem of iOS market economy, pricing models and size of this market.
GPUS are build for massive paralel computing but for the price of latency. In graphics (gaming) you can drop few miliseconds to get result later, but in realtime audio this would be big issue.. so GPU usage for audio applications is VERY limited. Not saying impossible, but very very limited, on the edge of unusability
)
universal, plz
Thanks for your insight. You seem to know more about the iPads processing power than most of us. The fact that most non audio apps also make use of the GPU makes sense to me.
So the iPad would need fans in order to handle bigger Logic sessions 😅
Well I’m sure Logic for iOS won’t come very soon so maybe they’ll either come up with a hardware or software solution.
I guess software would be more realistic so that logic can also run on older and non pro iPads.
So there surely will be a throttle somewhere. I don’t think they will be able to release a full blown logic version on iOS.
Or maybe they will balance out the cpu usage with latency. So that the I/O buffer size automatically goes up as the cpu is being pushed. That wouldn’t bother too much while mixing. And when recording there has to be a trick. Maybe internal freezing of tracks or something 😄
(like FCPX renders video fx in the background)
I’m curious how Auria Pro or Cubasis 3 manage large projects with many plugins and high cpu demand.
nope. Usage of GPU for realtime audio is very limited, close to none, for technical reasons. You can use GPU for offline calculations but bot for realtime audio at large scale..
You can use multiple CPU cores for realtime audio in some specific cases when you don't need to be sample accurate (but don't want to discuss this in depth, it was explained to me by one of most skilled iOS devs but i'm not sure i understand it completely, it's completely top notch of DSP coding knowledge, don't want to explain it to avoid some missinterpretations - but it IS practically possible)
@JRSIV said: As I've said before in this thread, on PAPER the iPads of the last two years (maybe even longer) can theoretically run the full code version of Logic Pro. But without addressing the thermal throttling issue it won't happen. And comparing graphics apps & DAW's is truly apples and oranges. LumaFusion and other big photo/video apps have tremendous help from the iPads GPU, audio programs like DAW's cannot. It would take alteration of the code way beyond my pay grade to even discuss to get the GPU to fit into the audio processing scheme.
@jacou said: You seem to know more about the iPads processing power than most of us. The fact that most non audio apps also make use of the GPU makes sense to me
@dendy said: nope. Usage of GPU for realtime audio is very limited, close to none, for technical reasons. You can use GPU for offline calculations but bot for realtime audio at large scale..
You can use multiple CPU cores for realtime audio in some specific cases when you don't need to be sample accurate (but don't want to discuss this in depth, it was explained to me by one of most skilled iOS devs but i'm not sure i understand it completely, it's completely top notch of DSP coding knowledge, don't want to explain it to avoid some missinterpretations - but it IS practically possible)
@jacou Thanks for the nice words but I am more than willing to admit I know just enough to be dangerous, lol. I was in the Recording Technology program in college but that was 8 years ago. I try to keep up on the latest but I am not an expert.
@dendy Thanks for explaining the issue better than I could. As I said one thing I did learn was GPU’s and audio just don’t mix. Which is why every theoretical exploration of bringing a full fledged professional desktop DAW to the iPad is hinged on what can the CPU handle.
I didn’t mean to come off pessimistic or defeatist because YES, I would love having Logic on iOS. THE QUESTION is if Apple can pull it off without gimping the complete experience. If it’s to be truly universal then that should mean no compromises.
I just hop in here in the end of thread, without reading all above, but, do we need Logic Pro on iPad really?
The present apps on iPad can take us a long way near Logic Pro, or?
With Auria Pro on iPad with a few buyed IAP and a few AUv3-instruments we can do magic already...
Maybe not now, maybe not soon... but iPad is called to be the apple pro computer of the next future. And of course logix or something similar with a different name will be implemented... whether we agree or not.
I had 3 macbook pros before... now I only make music with iPad. And the next computer I will buy you bet its gonna be a brand new shiny ipad. Flexibility, commodity, powerful and you can carry them on your bag. They are definitely here to stay and update the macbooks pro (like those did it before with the g4).
My theory is that the real reason behind the Catalyst is laying ground for the big switch from Intel to ARM on Macs. They released it early to gather feedback from developers and remove as much obstacles as possible from the process as seen from the developers perspective. The fact there is a lot of issues now would actually be a good thing for them - even having few years to work on it, they wouldnt be able to catch all of the edge cases and quirks without the support of developers community.
But it doesn’t mean that at the same time they aren’t planning to eventually unify the software ecosystem between iOS and OSX - it’s just terribly hard and takes a lot of time and work.
File system is “crippled” from the end user perspective, but it’s not THAT bad when we’re talking about the way file system is used by developers so I don’t think it’s a blocker. The only challenge is adjusting the workflow to the standards and design patterns of iOS ecosystem, but it’s more of a challenge from UX perspective than from the technical one.
Smaller screens is a similar situation, I don’t see how 12,9 iPad Pro is different from MacBook Air which runs all of the mentioned apps with no problem.
UI framework is different, not less advanced, but again it doesn’t mean that much when most of the music applications (especially multiplatform ones) don’t rely on standard, built-in UI components anyway.
Perhaps. You can still try to get attention while being right though.
I’m really enjoying what I’ve got and my way of working - AB, NS2, Drambo, AUM, ApeMatrix, BM3, Zenbeats and everything else that feeds and enhances these DAW and DAW-like apps. I mean this honestly - what is this going to give me that I don’t have? I don’t want to create Beyoncé’s newest hit or slick pop (though it can be created with iOS), so maybe that’s some kind of dividing line. Would this make everything easier? Granted, Logic is very powerful, but not always fun.
Yeah I think you summarised it well 😄
I think the Logic type of person is someone that likes a “neat” all in one app from idea to complete and mastered song production.
And I’m sure that’s not everyone’s cup of tea. But something that gets me personally super excited.
I’ll pay $50 just for global fing tuning in current garageband
Cool.
Agreed, all of my fings on iOS are out of tune so I got logic to fix it. 😉
Just kidding.
This made me think of another physical reason I had to get away from all iOS- looking down at a screen all the time was causing neck issues for me. The day I got my Apollo, as I was driving home and eagerly anticipating it’s arrival, I passed a large flat screen tv on the curb. I picked it up, thinking, what the heck, if it doesn’t work it just goes back out on curb later. Now I have a 37” monitor in a comfortable spot for my neck.
An iPad with an external monitor makes less sense to me because I would have to keep looking down. With key commands and a Magic Trackpad, I don’t have to do that as often. But iPad with logic remote running alongside is great.
Also, you can export a project from logic to iOS GarageBand, and anything you add in gb will show up later in logic, which is a cool way to continue creating as ideas hit you then being able to tweak it later.
A good point. I also suffer from neck and back trouble and starring down on tablets and even worse on phones is not really good. Multi-touch is more fun mostly and kind of more direct feeling but i learned over years that it is not good for me if i starring at it for hours. Smartphone neck, no joke. A bad placed monitor is also not good but mobile devices are doctors best friend.
Agree. But my point was that all those other DAWs are mostly sold on Windows so their reason of existing is the there's another platform. With a fair priced version of logic of iOS/ iPadOS I can see most DAW devs just quit because all pro's will go Logic.
I think a lot of people who want Logic on the iPad haven't ever used Logic before.
Not all, but a lot.
It's a good app, but I think it's biggest draw these days is just how much content you get for the "relatively" low price. Tons of effects, synths, loops, etc come included. 60+GB?
In terms of workflow though, it just seems like Live, Studio One, and Reaper have much more intuitive workflows, while still letting you achieve pro results with a lot of flexibility. If Ableton Live ever came to iOS, THEN I'd get pretty excited
. > @Tarekith said:
I’m not a Logic user personally, but I welcome any and all pro-level DAWs in iOS. The current ones, while cool, are all lacking in one way or another. Either features or stability. If Apple was to commit to an iOS version of Logic it would be saying a lot about the future of music making on the platform.
But yes.... ABLETON iOS, please!
If some version of Logic comes to iOS I hope they think about non EDM people too.
I want flex on audio files and flex pitch.
The whole bang of the mixer, like sends and groups, master fader, mastering tools.
Also audio handling on the timeline, fade in/out and gain on regions etc. Track stacks, drummer tracks converting to midi, freeze tracks, bounce in place. Automation.
Don’t need as much content as on the Mac.
Lots of auv3 synths these days. Lots of auv3 effects, compressors, reverbs etc available. Ton of free loops from the net. Cubasis 3 is almost there. THEY CAN DO IT.
this
well said
But that also depends on your personal workflow. I tested Live several times and i really hate it, lol. But i know it is a great DAW and also a famous one. Max for Live would be my only thing where i see a big plus to use it.
But i guess it is also because once you used and learned such a big DAW over years it is hard to change and learn a new one. Then alone for Alchemy and Sculpture i would never leave Logic.
Maybe with the new live loops/clip thing Logic will be a bigger Live competitor soon.
But there are some pretty odd things in Live (like MPE) which are not usable for me and far away from what other DAWs offer. Live would be maybe not even in my Top 10 yet.
Agreed. 100 percent of this is doable. It just takes a bit of courage, which Apple used to have.