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miRack — now AUv3! — for Beginners

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Comments

  • KashiKashi

    @wim said:

    @Kashi said:
    Am curious to hear what people are thinking, in terms of how these new AUv3 host modules will open up new possibilities.

    To be honest, I don't think it opens up new capabilities that you couldn't already do with input and output from miRack in AUM or other hosts. It's a more direct experience though, and different ways of doing things can inspire new ideas.

    Sometimes perceptually, not wiring apps together in different ways makes things clearer. Say you have a miRack module such as Topograph. You can either wire it up to a Midi Trigger Out module and send it through AUM's routing matrix to another app, or you can host it in miRack and wire directly to the app. Neither is much different, but just having it right there in the patch can be nice. Same for audio. Does it change what you can do? Not really.

    If you're doing a bunch of combining of modules and AUv3's in different ways, juggling your mind between AUM channels, midi routing, FX slots, Busses, etc. can be a conceptually confusing than just re-plugging a few cables within one app. That may help encourage more experimentation. But in the end, it's all just routing of audio and midi no matter how you slice it.

    The control surface module is going to be the bigger enabler I think.

    Ok, that's good to know. Thanks wim

  • sevenapesevenape

    @mifki said:
    I'm now figuring out how presets are going to work. The idea is of course to be able to create presets for such custom modules (or what's a better way to call them as they're not quite modules anymore) which will be accessible just like presets normally are an AUv3 plugin.

    "Instruments" Maybe? But that won't cover effects or sequencers... Maybe just "device"?

  • CarnbotCarnbot

    Yeah Device could work, a bit like M4L device.
    So perhaps because they are macros for controlling a miRack Patch, they could be:
    mPD - mirack Patch Device
    or:
    mPM - miRack Patch Macro,
    or:
    miRack Macro presets

  • bygjohnbygjohn

    @mifki said:
    I'm now figuring out how presets are going to work. The idea is of course to be able to create presets for such custom modules (or what's a better way to call them as they're not quite modules anymore) which will be accessible just like presets normally are an AUv3 plugin.

    So is this presets for the control surfaces, or is this going to be a way of wrapping up a patch in a way that it can be imported into another patch as a custom module? If the latter that’ll be huge.

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @bygjohn said:

    @mifki said:
    I'm now figuring out how presets are going to work. The idea is of course to be able to create presets for such custom modules (or what's a better way to call them as they're not quite modules anymore) which will be accessible just like presets normally are an AUv3 plugin.

    So is this presets for the control surfaces, or is this going to be a way of wrapping up a patch in a way that it can be imported into another patch as a custom module? If the latter that’ll be huge.

    Woah that would absolutely be a huge update.

  • mifkimifki

    @bygjohn said:

    @mifki said:
    I'm now figuring out how presets are going to work. The idea is of course to be able to create presets for such custom modules (or what's a better way to call them as they're not quite modules anymore) which will be accessible just like presets normally are an AUv3 plugin.

    So is this presets for the control surfaces, or is this going to be a way of wrapping up a patch in a way that it can be imported into another patch as a custom module? If the latter that’ll be huge.

    Eventually it'll be both. You design a "control surface"/"front panel" for a patch, possibly create some presets for it, and then can use it as a custom AUv3 synth/fx/sequencer or add to another patch as a module (the difference is that for the latter you probably just want to add some ports to your custom module). I thought however that the AUv3 use case would be more interesting for a few reasons (and also it's easier to implement), so that's what in development (and in beta) first.

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @mifki said:

    @bygjohn said:

    @mifki said:
    I'm now figuring out how presets are going to work. The idea is of course to be able to create presets for such custom modules (or what's a better way to call them as they're not quite modules anymore) which will be accessible just like presets normally are an AUv3 plugin.

    So is this presets for the control surfaces, or is this going to be a way of wrapping up a patch in a way that it can be imported into another patch as a custom module? If the latter that’ll be huge.

    Eventually it'll be both. You design a "control surface"/"front panel" for a patch, possibly create some presets for it, and then can use it as a custom AUv3 synth/fx/sequencer or add to another patch as a module (the difference is that for the latter you probably just want to add some ports to your custom module). I thought however that the AUv3 use case would be more interesting for a few reasons (and also it's easier to implement), so that's what in development (and in beta) first.

    Wow that’s an awesome feature nonetheless. Thanks for the continued work and support. And also for saving me so much money on a hardware modular setup 😂

  • bygjohnbygjohn

    @mifki said:

    @bygjohn said:

    @mifki said:
    I'm now figuring out how presets are going to work. The idea is of course to be able to create presets for such custom modules (or what's a better way to call them as they're not quite modules anymore) which will be accessible just like presets normally are an AUv3 plugin.

    So is this presets for the control surfaces, or is this going to be a way of wrapping up a patch in a way that it can be imported into another patch as a custom module? If the latter that’ll be huge.

    Eventually it'll be both. You design a "control surface"/"front panel" for a patch, possibly create some presets for it, and then can use it as a custom AUv3 synth/fx/sequencer or add to another patch as a module (the difference is that for the latter you probably just want to add some ports to your custom module). I thought however that the AUv3 use case would be more interesting for a few reasons (and also it's easier to implement), so that's what in development (and in beta) first.

    Both stages will be amazing. Really looking forward to this. Thank you!

  • mifkimifki
    edited November 2023

    So on a different topic... I tried building miRack with polyphony last night, and it worked, which is not surprising as it was never a technical issue. However, I have a couple of requirements for polyphony implementation which I need to take care of.

    First, polyphony being supported absolutely must not affect performance of patches that do not use it.
    Second, it must be clear to user what's going on, i.e. what modules/ports support polyphony, how a poly module will work with a mix of mono/poly signals, what mono modules will do to poly signal, etc. - so ultimately what will happen to a poly signal all the way from start to finish.

    While the first item is up to me, I'm interested hearing your suggestions and ideas about the second one.

  • wimwim
    edited November 2023

    @mifki said:
    While the first item is up to me, I'm interested hearing your suggestions and ideas about the second one.

    To be honest, voices and polyphony in modular has always been a mystery to me since way back when Adulus was first introduced. I never did really get the idea of poly signals, separating them out, and combining them with modules.

    So, while I don't have any informed input, perhaps looking at how Drambo and Audulus manage voices may yield some inspiration.

    P.S. So exciting about polyphony! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

  • bygjohnbygjohn

    This is just a couple of random thoughts, possibly of no use.

    1) Some way of making poly connections look different, eg striped cables or cables with what I want to call a dashed fill, which isn’t very clear. What I mean is alternating colour/white along the length, a bit like a barber pole.

    2) Some visual way of marking poly patch points, maybe a similar visual language to the above, eg a beach ball sort of ring around the jacks.

  • auxmuxauxmux

    In VCV, poly cables become thicker, that's enough of an indication.

    I haven't tested in VCV, but let's say a poly signal is patched into a mono port. The simplest solution is just to drop the signals after the first one.

    Mono to poly would just default to mono even if polyphony is supported, since polyphonic inputs support n+ signals.

    Excited to hear polyphony is on horizon!

  • hghonhghon

    @mifki said:
    So on a different topic... I tried building miRack with polyphony last night, and it worked, which is not surprising as it was never a technical issue. However, I have a couple of requirements for polyphony implementation which I need to take care of.

    First, polyphony being supported absolutely must not affect performance of patches that do not use it.
    Second, it must be clear to user what's going on, i.e. what modules/ports support polyphony, how a poly module will work with a mix of mono/poly signals, what mono modules will do to poly signal, etc. - so ultimately what will happen to a poly signal all the way from start to finish.

    While the first item is up to me, I'm interested hearing your suggestions and ideas about the second one.

    Thicker cables make sense s as far as poly cables I think. Ports can have a different color or accented edges maybe.

    I think you would need polyphonic mixers that can add mono/mono or mono/poly signals together into a single cable, and from there along the signal chain poly modules would process the poly signal and mono modules would either not work or process the first voice/signal only. It becomes way more complex when you consider something like envelopes though. The way I see it, it would essentially equal duplicating the module/cables wrapped into one interface?

  • hghonhghon

    Another handy module would be a poly to mono splitter, it would probably look like a 1:8 module or so, so you can process individual signals in the chain (or use some instances of mono modules) and another to recombine them into poly cables, 8:1 then.

  • mifkimifki
    edited November 2023

    Okay so a polyphony is now available in the latest beta build. It all seems to be working pretty good actually. Read the beta notes, but will duplicate some points here to continue the discussion above.

    8-voice/channel polyphony, enabled by default, but I'll add a per-patch switch defaulting to off to make sure existing patches are not affected in any way.

    Poly cables will be thicker, but I forgot to do this in this build, will go into the next one.

    Yes, when you patch a poly signal into a mono module, normally it'll use only the first channel. That's inconvenient as you need to use a separate module to sum poly channels whenever you just want to send an output of a poly synth into a mono effect. So I added a "sum poly channels" menu item to mono modules which, when enabled, will do that without an extra module. I even feel like this should be enabled by default.

    Module manuals will include information on how module handles multiple channels on its different inputs, but I'm thinking how else to make all this less confusing to users.

  • SynthiSynthi

    Awesome @mifki ! Trying later today. Also regarding the controller module had no luck using custom background, any clue? Thanks!

  • mifkimifki

    @Synthi said:
    Awesome @mifki ! Trying later today. Also regarding the controller module had no luck using custom background, any clue? Thanks!

    What did you try to use? It expects SVG only.

  • SynthiSynthi

    @mifki said:

    @Synthi said:
    Awesome @mifki ! Trying later today. Also regarding the controller module had no luck using custom background, any clue? Thanks!

    What did you try to use? It expects SVG only.

    ok ! , tried jpg and png…. And is there a way to change the knobs and faders graphics or they are tied to the “stolen” graphic for the module?

  • mifkimifki

    @Synthi said:

    @mifki said:

    @Synthi said:
    Awesome @mifki ! Trying later today. Also regarding the controller module had no luck using custom background, any clue? Thanks!

    What did you try to use? It expects SVG only.

    ok ! , tried jpg and png…. And is there a way to change the knobs and faders graphics or they are tied to the “stolen” graphic for the module?

    Not in the current beta, but upon release or shortly after - yes.

  • dendydendy
    edited November 2023

    @mifki

    trying to test polyphony in latest beta but somehow it doesn’t work … i used just “P” marked modules but it still plays just mono ..

    here my patch:

  • mifkimifki

    @dendy said:
    trying to test polyphony in latest beta but somehow it doesn’t work … i used just “P” marked modules but it still plays just mono ..

    Did you set number of channels in the midi input module menu?

  • dendydendy

    @mifki said:

    @dendy said:
    trying to test polyphony in latest beta but somehow it doesn’t work … i used just “P” marked modules but it still plays just mono ..

    Did you set number of channels in the midi input module menu?

    hm okay didn’t know this is needed :-)

    buz problem is there is just “monophonic” option

  • mifkimifki
    edited November 2023

    @dendy said:
    hm okay didn’t know this is needed :-)

    buz problem is there is just “monophonic” option

    If it's the latest build, polyphony needs to be enabled in Patch menu first. Sorry, but all of this is mentioned in beta notes in TestFlight.

  • HotStrangeHotStrange

    @mifki said:

    @dendy said:
    hm okay didn’t know this is needed :-)

    buz problem is there is just “monophonic” option

    If it's the latest build, polyphony needs to be enabled in Patch menu first. Sorry, but all of this is mentioned in beta notes in TestFlight.

    Massive update! Haven’t been able to test the polyphony yet but I’ll be doing that this weekend. Thanks for the continued support 🙏 MiRack is essential at this point.

  • jsmonzanijsmonzani

    I'm guessing we'll get poly to mono splitters and mergers modules as well?

    As a VCV veteran, mirack was one of my reasons to buy an iPad. I'm so happy we'll get poly as well soon!!

  • auxmuxauxmux

    Great stuff, @mifki. Polyphony is working well here so far with BogAudio modules. Poly support for Mutable/Audible Instruments and Befaco would be awesome.

  • SynthiSynthi

    Hi @mifki ! Polyphony is working great here! @jsmonzani , yes! Merger and splitters included.
    Trying the controller module I think I’ve found a bug: switches from @nysthi modules (round ones with a led inside) don’t show their state at the controller.

  • mifkimifki
    edited November 2023

    @Synthi said:
    Hi @mifki ! Polyphony is working great here! @jsmonzani , yes! Merger and splitters included.
    Trying the controller module I think I’ve found a bug: switches from @nysthi modules (round ones with a led inside) don’t show their state at the controller.

    Module lights are completely separate from controls, those and all other similar switches are just a light on top of a button. A workaround is to steal the button first, then steal the light (in SHIFT mode which allows to steal any widget) and put it on top of the button (or anywhere you want actually). I understand this is cumbersome, I'll see if I can do the same automatically.

  • bygjohnbygjohn

    Hi @mifki just noticed that in the latest release version the Nysthi Etchasketchoscope is no longer functioning. Can’t get it to make any kind of display, even on older patches where it used to work.

  • mifkimifki

    Yeah it got broken some time ago, and I finally found how to fix it, thanks for reminding.

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