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Actually I have.
I am black and all life does matter.
I fight for equality not who's black or white.
It is a hashtag, it is popular culture now.
It's why the all lives matter hashtag worked because that also is fashion.
Because when our world is burning because of human stupidity
Don't you remember Brazil, Australia, Siberia and Africa?
I don't think I am on holier ground.
Because we're all in hell.
So yes.
All life matters.
You are the doctor who refuses to give medicine to the liver because you think the whole body matters. You actually think that pointing out one problem means you must address all problems? You actually think that protesting any injustice should include all injustice? Absolutely absurd.
No one who looks at the history of systematic racism in America would ever come to this conclusion. No matter what color you are. What a privilege it is to only see the forest and ignore the trees. If you fought for equality no matter the race, then you wouldn’t find it necessary to say “all life matters”. Which is actually and empty, meaningless slogan.
How unfortunate for every black person who needs you to do better.
@DCJ
No more words.
Not sure if that’s your way of policing my dialogue or if you’re asking that we simply move on from the conversation. I would oblige to the latter but won’t tolerate the former.
The latter.
Definitely not the former.
I notice a common theme among ALL the various forums, when some one says "Black Lives Matter" like clockwork there will be a handful that say "ALL Lives Matter" or "Blue Lives Matter". There is no other cause (That I have seen where this is done) .
I mean which other cause have people tried to paint with a broad broad stroke as a response ? I have never seen anything like this when it comes to climate , animal rights , politics etc.
This was a statement (BLM) because of the OVERWHELMING disparity in arrests, incarceration/sentencing, and overall treatment of a specific group of people.
Musicians fight for their royalties , nobody comes out and says "well all creative peoples incomes, royalties, residuals etc are equally as important".
Imagine #men-too in response to #metoo, yes men can be victims to the #metoo movement due to someone falsely making accusations, but decent people understand the greater good of the #metoo movement and the pain it has caused its victims and no one would dare respond with "#men-too" or anything along those lines.
We are talking about a well documented issue that now truly has the world's attention. saying all lives matter in trying to make a point is nothing more than diminishing what happens to Black people ... FACTS. How do you want to give equally footing to ALL LIVES MATTER when it is NOT ALL LIVES THAT are victimized as blacks are ( my opinion is reflective of what is currently occurring here in the United States)
Trump and his toady supporters have a sickening sense of self-aggrandizement at a time when he has patently done everything wrong:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-52915972/white-house-likens-trump-to-churchill-in-ww2
I just want to say that Gravitas reached out to me privately to have a dialog. I say this because I want everyone to knows that tense, challenging conversations don’t have to be avoided.
Gravitas has my respect and I’m grateful for everyone on this forum who is willing to have these difficult conversations. Forgive me for coming on very strong, but I feel that matters like this are too important.
Respect.
You both have my admiration, it’s what makes this forum such a good place.
Respect.
I saw this on twitter earlier
@MarcusRashford: This is Kieran, a lovely young boy with autism. The other 2 in the video, I have no words to describe. The video speaks for itself. Kieran, I got you my guy, always. I appreciate the love and support you send me constantly. Keep that head of yours high. Love, your friend, MR ♥️
EDIT: video taken down of a young, black autistic boy being bullied by a young white guy whilst a young white girl laughs and encourages the hatred — I believe the video was taken down at the request of Kieran’s family
On the one hand, the behaviour of the lad and girl in the video is deplorable. It is so sad that young people feel entitled to act like this.
However. The response So far is quite encouraging with respect to people not standing by and letting it go.
Young kids reported the offenders and according to the thread the young thug’s parents reported him to the police. He was also fired by his employer.
If everybody were to act like the young lad on twitter that reported him, hopefully people will learn that this is not OK. As long as it does not go too far.
For reference to those in that don’t follow football, Marcus Rashford plays football for Manchester United and England. He’s an incredibly talented and decent young
man.
He has also been very active with helping feed young people during the current pandemic with the fair share organisation.
Declan rice is also mentioned in the thread. He’s another young England international footballer.
However. The ‘thugs’ shouldn’t be cast adrift. At least try and educate them. They need to be punished appropriately. But if they are disenfranchised we risk making them even worse individuals. We have to hope they can learn.
I’m assuming the thread is genuine. I’ve not been able to fact check it
Disgraceful behaviour, the parents seem to have done the correct thing at least.
I'd just like to point out that while "All lives matter" probably sounds like a no-brainer as far as humanistic slogans go, here on the streets if you say that out loud, well.. you might as well be wearing a MAGA hat and doing seig heils. "All lives matter" is the call of the Proud Boys and other white nationalist groups. When coming from the average white conservatives that might not affiliate with white power movements, it simply communicates that they have the luxury of class and racial priviledge and really don't want to have conversations about difficult things like that, because it's not their problem. "I don't see color!" "I'm a humanist!" "all lives matter" are easy ways to shoo away difficult truths.
when I was a kid, a local shoe store in my hometown put up a big sign for their new business.
"FINAL SOLUTION"
in huge letters in a little stripmall. as in: "Tired of looking for that perfect pair of shoes? Come on down for the FINAL SOLUTION!" The business owner claimed ignorance of the significance of the phrase, used the "PC Police!" pushback hoping they wouldn't have to change the signage, and eventually came up with a less incendiary name before shuttering it less than a year later.
People getting very defensive on any hotbutton issue (me included!) would do well to remember that this is an international forum. words and phrases carry different weight in different regions and cultures.
If you haven't lived in the US and/or studied its history, you're missing hundreds of years of precedent to the BLM movement. Slavery to Jim Crow, to the School to Prison Pipeline (Watch the excellent doc "13th" for more on that if you're interested.) To deny that the problem is systemic in this country is to deny the reality on the ground.
I'm a white person who kind of bristled at the title of the BLM movement early on (partly because I saw how obvious it would be for the "other side" to get and push back with "oh, so you don't think all lives matter??") but thankfully it is taking hold and the message seems to be getting through to many.
When I was young and dumb, I argued for "colorblindness" and defensively spouted things like "reverse racism!" (which as a term white people sometimes use, really points to how embedded and normalized the direction racism is "supposed" to go). I said things like "but I have friends who are black!"
I'm thankful to the people who gave me hard lessons about whiteness and priveledge, challenged my thinking, and were patient enough to not simply scream "you're a racist!" at me, but have real conversations instead. I didn't want to think about race and class because I had the luxury not to have to.
Again, maybe this particular conversation about race doesn't translate well to the racial dynamics of other places, but it seems as though it might be seeing as how it is resonating throughout the world. Call it PC bullshit if you want. ignore it if you choose to. But I hope it's not controversial to acknowledge that nuanced and conversations that help us find compassion and ways to address systemic problems are conversations worth having.
..world is too polarized right now and finding common ground isn't the worst idea in this insane timeline we're stuck in!
respect!
@michael_m "I think that all lives matter, but I don't think it needs to be said out loud"
@Gravitas "Black Lives do matter, All lives matter, more importantly, 'All life matters',"
back when #BlackLivesMatter was first coined,
i unknowingly trod on the bomb was that is/was "All Life Matters"
this was my Natural and instinctive reaction ... "yes, all Life matters"
what followed felt Kafkaesque
had the pound sign read #BlackLivesMatterTOO
my Natural reaction would have been "yes they do"
...
@DCJ said “your liver matters, but your whole body matters more.”
i appreciate we see things differently ... but "all Life matters" does not, to my reading, imply "more" ... it is simply an holistic approach,
and i feel we agree, if the Liver needs attention, we'd best give that Liver attention,
but again with no intention of inflaming disagreement,
is the solution to the problems i believe we both perceive,
in skin colour? or is it in the quality of environment, housing, water, etc we each have and share?
...
@Gravitas said "The person of authority namely the police officer abused
his power and killed George Floyd whether he knew him
or not, whether it was some harboured beef or not."
true true
who are the Policy Men? what is there role in society?
https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
...
@Gravitas.. "_You can be racist as much as like, you can shout it out at the top of your
voice but as long as you're not harming anyone I've got no problem with that.
...
If you harm someone then I will have something to say.
...
We do not need anymore reasons for hate.
We need balance.
Peace.
_"
this would be my approach - let's look where the wound is,
as @klownshed says "The ‘thugs’ shouldn’t be cast adrift. At least try and educate them. They need to be punished appropriately. But if they are disenfranchised we risk making them even worse individuals."
...
...
without words we are unable to discuss problems and issues
will we let the worst of us control our Language?
how is it that one of the oldest, planet-wide symbols for "well being" has been weaponised?
what if this quality of "well being" is inherent in the symbol itself?
the last time there was such a shamefully similar situation (with the death of Eric Garner) there was an attempt to weaponise the phrase "i can breathe"
"i can breathe" --- can you believe it?
if affirmations do indeed work
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Émile_Coué
what are the many signs and murals stating "i can't breathe" meant to achieve?
would "we ALL breathe for George" not be a more optimistic approach?
...
...
@knewspeak "You both have my admiration, it’s what makes this forum such a good place."
hear!hear!
that too is what i Love about this forum, passions, fears, e-motions can move, but i believe our hearts and minds are all striving for better
)
sin(e) waves are interesting, but the interplay between them is music
)
@simonnowis if your liver is poisoned you do not need a holistic approach. A holistic approach is great to prevent problems. Or recover from a problem. Do you need a body cast when you break your arm? Why is this so hard to understand?
You do not need to say all lives matter. You do not need to say all life matters either. It never needs to be said. It was never said before now.
Is the solution skin color? I don’t even understand what this means. Is the solution environment? Partly. If black people were not forced (yes forced) to live in the worst neighborhoods over decades of redlining, their environment would allow for more mobility. Would that stop cops from killing them disproportionately? No. We’d have a few more things to address before we got there.
All of the things you brought up were already addressed. We’re going in circles.
@simonnowis
But maybe, the Liver is unwell, because of the actions/interactions of the rest of the body?
what do i mean by "is the solution in skin colour?" ... is it not the poverty, and put upon Living conditions we wish to address? regardless of the skin colour or planetary origin of those suffering?
another colour of privilege is "money green" ...
i appreciate the space to express my thoughts, but i will say no more on this
)
If all lives matter, black lives matter. So just say that black lives matter. In doiing so, you’ll be saying that all lives matter. That’s the entire point behind the slogan. It is not exclusionary. It’s not saying your life doesn’t matter if you’re not black. This movement is asking for (or rightfully claiming) attention to a problem that needs fixing. I truly don’t understand how people miss this. It’s not a complex statement. It just asks for a little empathy for your fellow human. Acknowledge the specific issues people face and be a part of the solution, not a hindrance. (TLDR I’m agreeing with you.)
Banksy:
I get you friend. I didn't mean to make a comment about you at all. All hearts from me to you.
I was calling out the straw man in the 'look at these cops beating on a white person' video because while the police may be too violent in general (that could come down to opinion for many), we know based on actual data that when they are too violent, the violence skews toward black and brown people. Moving the discussion toward general police violence would be to ignore a significant part of the current problem.
Because I know you're a nerd like me, please allow me to put it in psuedo math terms:
w= percentage of population that is whiteb= percentage of population that is blackV= total incidents of police violenceVw= percentage of police violence directed at white people ( V * w)Vb= percentage of police violence directed at black people ( V * b)Currently, based on the data we have available,
Vb > Vw.If we focus on police violence in general and we reduce the total represented by
Vthat would, of course, be a very good thing. But, that alone will not change theVb > Vwpart.To put my previous post in other words, this isn't a "different point of view"—it's a different problem.
Related? Surely. Worth addressing? Absolutely. But it's a different problem.
Everyone should watch this
No problem, there is some great things happening out there. It might be overshadowed by the negative, however, something needs to change. Take core everyone
🙏
Understand.. i see it, we are talking about two independent issues here - One is discrimination of black (or to be exact non-white - i guess people with hispanic and other roots are facing more or less same issues) at all levels of society. Second issue is police brutality ..
I have to admit i'm very disgusted by people in general. Most people are just bad, stupid or combined. IT's probably in our DNA, result of evolution. I don't think this should go better. Actually it looks like it's worse and worse... To kill or be killed. Not just in US, all over the globe. Somewhere less, somewhere more, but in average, it's going in wrong direction...
it's fucked up ... Holding fingers crossed for people in the streets, stay strong and do not give up this fight !
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-52962356
Protest in Bristol