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Comments
Sounds lovely! Hats off to you and Nembrini.
@Lil_Stu07 - Thanks!!
(bit unconvinced about the solo myself, but nice to hear its being liked)
It would be great if all forum posts focusing on price could be tagged, and then we had the option to toggle them out of view. Maybe an AI feature for future Internet forums.
Lol or even the option to just tag any thread and hide it. I've been thinking that a lot the last few days 🤣
@Marcel ,a lot of interesting melodic ideas that would deserve further development 👏.
Beautiful chords.
Flo
Thanks a lot @flo26 !!!
The chord composition is in fact something I already (sort of) published a few years ago. Same chords (with capo on 2nd fret), different version (spoken word by Johnny Goodyear):
As a long-standing, fully fledged guitarist I’d say £20 is nothing for a really good AU amp sim.
The alternative: mic’ing up/DIing a real amp or using a modelling amp/pedal of some sort.
Unless you already own this gear (and obviously most electric guitarists will at least own an amp) these methods are way more expensive and, in the case of a mic’d amp, orders of magnitude more prone to problems (sound levels, hum, reproducing the exact same set-up each time, etc) than simply plugging your electric into an interface.
Even if I bought all the Nembrini amp sims (which I won’t) it is still cheaper and way more convenient than any of the alternatives, apart from, say, Tonestack/BIAS, which require a lot of tweaking to sound good, and are still not AU.
Quite right. It would be like saying that Marshall or Friedman MUST make an intro price for each of their new amps because I’m an amps addicted and I WANT to buy them all, and after they sent me some worthy pedals for free, without me buying anything from them, I also start to criticize their pricing policy... please.
You mean like if we had some sort of mind control over where our eyes went, with some sort of super power to move our eyes away from things we didn't want to look at? That would be great!
It's simple really. Keep the existing prices as "intro" pricing, then make the full pricing the same as the desktop apps. Everybody happy now?
Oof. Lol.
Nice demo, much warmer sounding than I expected.
@richardyot. Thanks!
My demo has mixing and mastering plugins on it. When I read what you wrote I thought: oops perhaps my extra plugins might give a false impression. So I just now bypassed every effect on the solo and also on the master bus. So, completely dry solo now (but with the Nemb. amp of course). Still sounds very good. I only loaded two IRs from the free Line 6 Allure pack into the Nembrini plugin.
So, below a sample of that. No effects on the solo guitar, only Nembrini amp with loaded free IRs (and no master effects on everything), duration: 1 minute.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QZMqbaz_ZpcL8KgvCF793ZLW4IK4GfTc/view?usp=drivesdk
If you've just gotten into guitar during the last 3-5 years or so and have just mainly purchased software on PC, Mac & iOS then I can understand that introductory pricing & software pricing in general may seem like an issue.
If you've been playing for a long amount of time, especially back when "amp simulations" meant Line 6 Pods, etc. then taking issue with a guitar apps pricing is anywhere from ill informed to disingenuous.
If you wanted to experiment with different tones 10-20 years ago you were looking at $300+ for another amp OR $80-$200 for a guitar pedal/effects box. That isn't "old man yells at sky" bullshit, it's fact.
Today there's a mountain of different software & plug in's available from free to use to a few hundred dollars. The facilities and features are voluminous. If anything, the differences between the gap that still exists between desktop versions & iOS versions of software is what's open for debate; and in my view it should be "add more features to the iOS and raise the price" not "lower the price on the iOS because you did on the desktop". They're two completely different animals.
This has been talked about on the forum for 5+ years since I started using iOS music production apps exclusively. Comparing the two different formats isn't even apples & oranges, they're two different worlds completely.
Budgets, R & D, technical support, testing, etc are all seperate issues with the two different platforms. Up until recently an iOS version of a popular music app was either dismissed outright or worked on as an afterthought. It's companies like Nembrini that seem to be pulling both desktop & iOS equally that need our support the most.
For how good they've sounded and the ease of the AU integration the Nembrini amps are well worth $20. If anything the addition of the desktop rack features like mic choice, mic placement, impulse response loader/mixer, etc. would make them even more valuable.
Of course all of this is first world problem territory, but I'm just asking to look at it with some perspective. You can't correlate a discount percentage off of an original price of $120 with a price of $20. It's like saying everyone is going to pay 20% income tax; well the guy making $10,000 a year is going to feel that a whole lot worse than someone making a $1,000,000 a year.
$20 is a pretty good price for all you get with the iOS version, taking 80% off of that is silly. Just the view from where I sit...
@JRSIV +1 (-20%)
This!
Their amps (even the Crunk) are the only amps that sound "real" to my ears. It would be nice if the interface had some more features though (especially preset saving, preset switching, midi cab control, etc); it just feels clunky. That having been said, I still use it just on the basis of the sound of the amp alone.
They do have preset saving, switching, A/B. This is what the bar at the top of their plugin is all about.
Here is another demo of the Mac version:
Sounds pretty nice!
The guitarist says this is the type of amp Richie Sambora has used.
Fucking spot on. $20 isn’t shit for something that sounds this good. I’ve had to spend well over $200 just for practice amps that would get buried if I tried playing in a club with a band. And these were usually digital amp sim type amps that don’t even sound as good as Nembrini. I’m a broke ass guitarist and $20 is an absolute dream for an amp sim like this.
Is is to someone.
Coming out 1st July according to Twitter
And according to this very thread, one page back.
You seem to be overlooking one vital difference: Paying that $300 price tag for a physical FX processor meant that you actually had something physical in your hands for the money. Although it may have become outdated, or you may no longer be happy with it, you could mostly recoup at least something on the initial cost of the product by reselling it on FleaBay or whatever. But where these virtual apps are concerned, they only exist within a virtual space on your PC, Mac or iPad or whatever device you are using, and if your device fails, is superseded or no longer supported, you are forced to then purchase another device which will be a lot more expensive than the $300 price mark of the type of processor you were referring to. And you couldn't resell these apps unless you were to include them in the selling price of your device - iPad or whatever.
In addition to that, most processors of that type would have included a floorboard of some description, with midi i/o and probably an expression pedal input if one was not actually included. All these things add additional expenditure to the cost of the device and virtual app however, and once you factor in these additional costs, the equation starts to shift pretty drastically in the other direction in terms of relative value. Of course those add-ons aren't essential, but if you want to use them live they would become an important consideration, unless you enjoy using your finger to switch rigs and turn FX on or off.
On the other hand, there can be no doubt that these virtual apps are far more versatile, and the in-built processor in these devices is often far more powerful than the processors of the type of processor you would have paid $300 for10 years ago, although with breakthroughs by companies like Mooer that is starting to change. But that goes in favour of hardware based processors, not against.
[Make no mistake though, I feel the same way about hardware pricing. I was an early adopter of the Roland VG series, starting off with the VG-8 and moving up to the VG-99 which was a far higher-tech device than we are discussing, but my point is that the introductory price of that entire series was really exaggeratedly high, yet is only worth a fraction of the price paid now.
But that was before the idea of boutique amps and companies like Fractal Audio came on the scene, and four-figure prices became the order of the day for effects processors and amplifiers.
I believe that such products should be priced within the means of the most humble of musicians, rather than forcing musicians to take on additional day jobs just to enable them to purchase the equipment to enable them to express themselves as musicians. This whole industry has become impossibly skewed since so many people have discovered the possibility of changing a hobby into a profession - creating an opening for this music industry to capitalize on this constantly growing phenomenon.]
I disagree. I feel that many apps on the iOS platform are already overpriced, and not only that but the actual pricing model is tantamount to daylight robbery for what as I have already said is a virtual product which only has relevance as long as we continue to use those specific devices. One of the worst offenders on that count is undoubtedly Positive Grid, but most of their competitors are not much better. Their prices are still extortionate for what you actually get because they all have bugs and major issues which are never addressed even when you pay out for yet another version.
There are even significant bugs in Nembrini's iOS products, when you try to use them in combination with other apps. For example, if you try and open a Nembrini amp model within Tonestack you will find that the amp model opens in muted mode, and you will only be able to change the mode by leaving Tonestack. Not only that, but the user presets you lovingly build will not be accessible unless you use the standalone version of the amp sim. Aside from that, you are only able to access two control knobs on the virtual version of the Nembrini amp within Tonestack, and only one actually does anything at all. If I am going to pay 10 or 20€ for an app, I expect to function as advertised, not in a half-arsed manner. But in all honesty none of the apps I've tried seem to me to have been fit for public release. They all seem to be buggy, rushed jobs.
I am hoping that these Nembrini apps will be more polished than those of the competition. So far I have only tried their free apps, but I was very impressed by the quality of the Krunck V2 amp and the FX plugins I tried, do my hope is that I will be happy with some of the paid apps.
Although Nembrini do intend addressing some of the disparities between the desktop and iOS platforms - according to what I just read in another thread - at the present time** there is indeed a significant difference **between the products they offer on the desktop platform and those we are presently able to access on the iOS platform. Once they do indeed deliver on that promise, their iOS products will be far easier to use, since presently there is no way to rack up all their amps and processors into a single cohesive unit as is possible with the desktop product.
But in all honesty, if they were to adopt the same introductory price to full price ratio of their desktop products on the iOS platform I would never even consider paying that much. Pricing on the desktop platform is one reason for moving to the iOS platform, since I feel that software pricing on the desktop platform is outrageously high - especially for plugins by Overloud and others. Let's be honest, this is a racket, just like the gaming industry.
That said, personally, despite an ardent desire to actually do everything with only my iPad Pro, I am coming to realize that this is not the way to move forward. It would make far more sense to use the processing power of an iPad Pro and screen to deep edit and continually expand the capability of a standalone physical device, and in that regard I can see companies like Mooer Audio setting a trend, since this is essentially what they are already doing, but at a lower price point than their competitors.
Hello,
first of all, thank you for using our products. Much appreciated.
Concerning bugs in software, I'm afraid it remains an unsolved topic, since there will always be bugs in any type of software. Even when you produce both software and hardware, as Apple does, you are never free from problems, as we have seen in all these years.
Think only when you need to develop an app that must work on many different devices, with different operating systems, both on iPad and iPhone...
A half solution could be to make an app compatible only with one type of device and with only the latest operating system. Absolutely not acceptable, right?
Our apps are backwards compatible up to iOS 9.3 as we think this is a good thing for many users. But this requires an hard work in tests and a lot of time and several devices, because you cannot support an operating system if you have not physically loaded in one or more devices.
And any update that fixes a bug on a particular device and OS, could create another different one on another device with another OS. And if you are unable to replicate it during the analysis phase, a bug becomes almost impossible to correct.
All this long comment to try to explain that it is not enough to press a button to correct a problem, and that it is not enough to correct it on an OS to be sure that it applies to all other devices and operating systems.
Then, if we even speak of perfect compatibility with other third-party apps, which are not properly called hosts or commonly used DAWs, the discussion becomes, if possible, much more complex.
I don't think you've read anywhere that our apps are compatible with Tonestack, so I wouldn't talk about "half-arsed manner" or "rushed jobs". And I wouldn't even talk about "significant bugs" related to an use of the app that was not intended.
We may be a little presumptuous, but our apps are not expected to be compatible with those of competing devs. And I don't think it's fair to even ask.
Best regards,
Andrea
+1
Thank you for responding Andrea. To be fair, I only mentioned your products in the context of a general criticism aimed at pretty much all the developers whose products I have tried on iOS. And although I accept your defense of your products, and take your point about the difficulties you have to deal with during the development phases, I still feel that the specific bugs I described are unacceptable for a finished product, regardless of whether we are talking about compatibility with a specific host product such as Tonestack, there is no excuse for incompatibility with AB3, and the same bugs I described are still there in AB3, which is why I described the present state of development on the iOS platform as 'half-arsed', and although that description may seem offensive to you, I am British, and that description is fitting given the situation. If you like, I can describe it as 'poorly executed', to which you may still take offense, but you did ask for our opinion, and that is what I am expressing as honestly as possible. And please realize that AudioBus is not a competitor as you describe Yonac, so your excuse is not acceptable. AudioBus is necessary to interface with your products until such time as you provide an alternative (which I understand you are in the process of doing). Your apps are standalone, but at present there are very few ways to combine them other than to use an app like AB3, and as I said, the same bugs are present in AB3 as in Tonestack, and that is not acceptable for an app as ubiquitous and necessary as AB3 on this platform.
After all, how do you envisage the use of your products, if not via a host app of some kind? Let's say I wanted to use the Crunck V2 amp in combination with your other FX apps. How would I go about that without using AB3 or a similar host? And don't you feel that the fact that the Crunck V2 amp always defaults to muted mode is something that needs to be addressed, given the fact that it makes the app unusable in many scenarios? And do you think it's acceptable that I should only be able to access my own presets in Crunck V2 or any of your FX apps in standalone mode, but not when used within a host app? Why aren't my user presets available to any iteration of your apps? Why isn't the A/B condition saved and recalled at the next startup of the app?
I will still take advantage of these summer sales in order to acquire your paid for products in order to give you the benefit of the doubt, but in all honesty, if the same bugs occur in the paid versions of these apps I feel well within my rights to complain, since they render the app unfit for its intended use. But I need to find out for myself whether or not the hype surrounding your amp sims is deserved or not, and the only way to do so is install them on my device and try them for myself.
Furthermore, working on the iOS platform you are not faced with the plethora of totally different devices you would be forced to deal with on a platform like Android, since you are only dealing with Apple devices, so the hardware should not be as dissimilar as say different brands of Android based smartphones. So while I accept you still have to deal with various compatibility issues, it really doesn't compare with the difficulties you would encounter on the Android platform, and you should have factored these issues into your app development program when exploring the feasibility of the project, and these possible scenarios should have been provided for well in advance.
But you have to see it from the client's perspective as well. If you really intend at some point upping the introductory price to a three figure price for an iOS product, then you'd better be sure to iron out all the existing bugs, otherwise you'll be dealing with a lot of unhappy customers. What I am saying is that had the bugs I found occurred with an app I had paid a three figure sum for I would be demanding a refund by now, unless those issues were addressed within a reasonably short space of time. And I doubt I would be the only one. It's one thing paying 10€ for an app, and some bugs might be considered par for the course. But once you start to charge 100€> such shortfalls would no longer be acceptable, period.
The fact that Positive Grid chose to ignore requests for bug fixes after more than a year has resulted in bad blood between the devs and previously faithful users, many of whom including myself are looking elsewhere rather than paying out for upgrading to the latest version of Bias FX, which is still full of bugs and incomplete. If they go on like that, their bad reputation will start to reflect upon their sales - not that they care. Do you want to be seen in the same light as that type of developer?
From your attitude I believe that you represent a company who do actually value their user base, and I would like to believe that you will address these issues in order to keep us happy. So as I said, I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt. The ball is in your court now.
Fair comment @DSCB57 .
I have most of the Nembrini apps and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope the connectivity issues in particular will be resolved in due course.
You make some valid points @DSCB57 I have considered the software vs hardware resale aspect and have just come to terms with the fact that this is how software is going to be FOREVER. In the legal sense we don't "own" anything except licenses to use the software; but that's just the way it is, the toothpaste is out of the tube and there's no way to put it back.
For the convenience, sound quality and pricing structure lack of resale is just something you accept when working with modern software.
@DSCB57
If you are trying to use a Nembrini app in Tonestack, it has to be via IAA because TS doesn’t host AUV3s. You do realize Tonestack hasn’t been updated in 3 years and IAA has been deprecated by Apple and is likely get sketchier with each iOS update. IAA was always sketchy to begin with. I agree with your point about the fleeting nature of software especially on iOS but I think you’re being a little unfair to expect that the newer released Nembrini apps should be expected to work with an iOS app that hasn’t been updated in three years and interacts with other apps by old tech. The Nembrinis work great as AUV3s in AUM which is still updated. I admit I didn’t read your post closely so I may have missed something. Peace.