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Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Proppa said:
    Seeing similarities in the RRS 609 and MDEstereo “cathedral” forms: are these oddly gorgeous formations representing unwanted aliasing, wanted “character” or both depending on ear / taste?

    Well seeing as the MDE developer also created Plugin Doctor I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and what the trade offs are.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Proppa said:
    Seeing similarities in the RRS 609 and MDEstereo “cathedral” forms: are these oddly gorgeous formations representing unwanted aliasing, wanted “character” or both depending on ear / taste?

    Well seeing as the MDE developer also created Plugin Doctor I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and what the trade offs are.

    If you think of this as „character“ or „bad sound quality“ depends on what you are after I guess.

    I think you are missing my point, though. The developer of this compressor created what is probably the most used plugin to measure aliasing. So he knows exactly how much aliasing is in this compressor and that others will be able to measure it too using his own Plugin Doctor.

    I would be really interested to hear from him as to why. My guess is that he decided that this amount of aliasing is simply not audible in the mix. The reviews I have read have certainly not picked up on aliasing being audible in the MDE compressors. The feedback has been pretty exceptional actually.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo
    edited August 2020

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Proppa said:
    Seeing similarities in the RRS 609 and MDEstereo “cathedral” forms: are these oddly gorgeous formations representing unwanted aliasing, wanted “character” or both depending on ear / taste?

    Well seeing as the MDE developer also created Plugin Doctor I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and what the trade offs are.

    If you think of this as „character“ or „bad sound quality“ depends on what you are after I guess.

    I think you are missing my point, though. The developer of this compressor created what is probably the most used plugin to measure aliasing. So he knows exactly how much aliasing is in this compressor and that others will be able to measure it too using his own Plugin Doctor.

    I would be really interested to hear from him as to why. My guess is that he decided that this amount of aliasing is simply not audible in the mix. The reviews I have read have certainly not picked up on aliasing being audible in the MDE compressors. The feedback has been pretty exceptional actually.

    There is no question about whether the amount of aliasing showing in that image is audible or not. If you just listen to the sine sweep you will hear it clearly.

  • ProppaProppa

    I get that the RRS 609 and MDES aren’t aimed at being the most transparent processing but am still curious if the ornate spectrogram images are representing the audio “character” or specifically unwanted aliasing artifacts. Are they one and the same?

  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @Proppa said:
    I get that the RRS 609 and MDES aren’t aimed at being the most transparent processing but am still curious if the ornate spectrogram images are representing the audio “character” or specifically unwanted aliasing artifacts. Are they one and the same?

    Aliasing is never desirable (unlike harmonic distortion). But aliasing is only a problem if you hear it.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jolicojolico

    In normal use, they’re not that audible (or visible).

    In the images with the arches, the input is extremely overdriven.

  • jolicojolico

    Try running the “WOW signal” and the “Brown Note” through the spectrogram.

  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Proppa said:
    Seeing similarities in the RRS 609 and MDEstereo “cathedral” forms: are these oddly gorgeous formations representing unwanted aliasing, wanted “character” or both depending on ear / taste?

    Well seeing as the MDE developer also created Plugin Doctor I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and what the trade offs are.

    If you think of this as „character“ or „bad sound quality“ depends on what you are after I guess.

    I think you are missing my point, though. The developer of this compressor created what is probably the most used plugin to measure aliasing. So he knows exactly how much aliasing is in this compressor and that others will be able to measure it too using his own Plugin Doctor.

    I would be really interested to hear from him as to why. My guess is that he decided that this amount of aliasing is simply not audible in the mix. The reviews I have read have certainly not picked up on aliasing being audible in the MDE compressors. The feedback has been pretty exceptional actually.

    There is no question about whether the amount of aliasing showing in that image is audible or not. If you just listen to the sine sweep you will hear it clearly.

    Yes, but audible in the mix as I said?

    I’ve just remembered that DDMF are the developers of Metaplugin as well which is used to add oversampling to plugins that do not have it among other things. Too funny. It’s a shame Christian Siedschlag / DDMF isn’t on this forum. I would love to get his take on this.

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @gusgranite said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Proppa said:
    Seeing similarities in the RRS 609 and MDEstereo “cathedral” forms: are these oddly gorgeous formations representing unwanted aliasing, wanted “character” or both depending on ear / taste?

    Well seeing as the MDE developer also created Plugin Doctor I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and what the trade offs are.

    If you think of this as „character“ or „bad sound quality“ depends on what you are after I guess.

    I think you are missing my point, though. The developer of this compressor created what is probably the most used plugin to measure aliasing. So he knows exactly how much aliasing is in this compressor and that others will be able to measure it too using his own Plugin Doctor.

    I would be really interested to hear from him as to why. My guess is that he decided that this amount of aliasing is simply not audible in the mix. The reviews I have read have certainly not picked up on aliasing being audible in the MDE compressors. The feedback has been pretty exceptional actually.

    There is no question about whether the amount of aliasing showing in that image is audible or not. If you just listen to the sine sweep you will hear it clearly.

    Yes, but audible in the mix as I said?

    I’ve just remembered that DDMF are the developers of Metaplugin as well which is used to add oversampling to plugins that do not have it among other things. Too funny. It’s a shame Christian Siedschlag / DDMF isn’t on this forum. I would love to get his take on this.

    If played at full volume it would be audible in the mix. I have no doubt about that.

    However, Jolico is running the input far hotter than the intended input gain to get it to clip extra hard. The saturation switch in a compressor is there to warm things up a little, not to be driven into high gain distortion. It should be ok at normal operating levels.

    Also, keep in mind that doing heavy saturation without aliasing requires heavy oversampling. A compressor does not need that level of oversampling and it would be a waste of CPU to design a saturating compressor with enough oversampling to be driven 30 dB into clipping without aliasing because nobody uses a compressor like that.

    I don’t actually know how many dB over the intended input level @jolico was running that compressor but assuming the input gain was as hot as I think it was, this doesn’t mean the plugin is badly built.

  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Blue_Mangoo said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Max23 said:

    @gusgranite said:

    @Proppa said:
    Seeing similarities in the RRS 609 and MDEstereo “cathedral” forms: are these oddly gorgeous formations representing unwanted aliasing, wanted “character” or both depending on ear / taste?

    Well seeing as the MDE developer also created Plugin Doctor I think he knows exactly what he’s doing and what the trade offs are.

    If you think of this as „character“ or „bad sound quality“ depends on what you are after I guess.

    I think you are missing my point, though. The developer of this compressor created what is probably the most used plugin to measure aliasing. So he knows exactly how much aliasing is in this compressor and that others will be able to measure it too using his own Plugin Doctor.

    I would be really interested to hear from him as to why. My guess is that he decided that this amount of aliasing is simply not audible in the mix. The reviews I have read have certainly not picked up on aliasing being audible in the MDE compressors. The feedback has been pretty exceptional actually.

    There is no question about whether the amount of aliasing showing in that image is audible or not. If you just listen to the sine sweep you will hear it clearly.

    Yes, but audible in the mix as I said?

    I’ve just remembered that DDMF are the developers of Metaplugin as well which is used to add oversampling to plugins that do not have it among other things. Too funny. It’s a shame Christian Siedschlag / DDMF isn’t on this forum. I would love to get his take on this.

    If played at full volume it would be audible in the mix. I have no doubt about that.

    However, Jolico is running the input far hotter than the intended input gain to get it to clip extra hard. The saturation switch in a compressor is there to warm things up a little, not to be driven into high gain distortion. It should be ok at normal operating levels.

    Also, keep in mind that doing heavy saturation without aliasing requires heavy oversampling. A compressor does not need that level of oversampling and it would be a waste of CPU to design a saturating compressor with enough oversampling to be driven 30 dB into clipping without aliasing because nobody uses a compressor like that.

    I don’t actually know how many dB over the intended input level @jolico was running that compressor but assuming the input gain was as hot as I think it was, this doesn’t mean the plugin is badly built.

    Thank you for this. It is what I was trying to say in my initial response (without the technical expertise). I think this developer knows what he is doing and made a design decision about what will be audible and what CPU trade offs he wants in this compressor. And, as far as I am aware, no reviews of the plugin picked up on audible aliasing.

  • tk32tk32
    edited August 2020

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @tk32 said:

    Wow

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems

    @tk32 said:

    Audio file please! 🙂

  • gusgranitegusgranite

    @SevenSystems said:

    @tk32 said:

    Audio file please! 🙂

  • tk32tk32
    edited August 2020

    Sorry guys - the Drambo spectrogram was just a bad visual gag made in Photoshop

    (couldn't you tell?)

  • SamuSamu

    @tk32 said:

    Lol, I was expecting BM3 :P

  • SevenSystemsSevenSystems
    edited August 2020

    @tk32 said:
    Sorry guys - the Drambo spectrogram was just a bad visual gag made in Photoshop

    (couldn't you tell?)

    Man, that's cheap! ;)

    (sorry, couldn't resist!)

  • jolicojolico

    @gusgranite said:

    @SevenSystems said:

    @tk32 said:

    Audio file please! 🙂

    🤣

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    edited August 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • espiegel123espiegel123

    @tja said:

    @jolico said:

    Tried this, but sadly it cannot open images from my library, only allows to take pictures with the camera.

    But then, you can send the finished audio by mail, so no screenrecording and additional conversion required.

    It seems to be a very old iPhone App.

    Maybe there is another solution?

    Virtual ANS?

  • IdentorIdentor

    @sch said:
    Fascinating! I just last night watched Christian Henson’s video in which he uses a spectrogram to show how layering a synth pad affects the sound:

    Thanks for the link. I enjoyed this one. Not only the the British soothingly accent alike Richard Attenborough, but also how to explain sound alike to explain the taste of wine :)

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo

    @tk32 said:
    Sorry guys - the Drambo spectrogram was just a bad visual gag made in Photoshop

    (couldn't you tell?)

    Yes. But didn’t want to be rude and thought maybe part of it might have started out as a real spectrogram before the photoshop enhancement

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Tim6502Tim6502

    Had better provide the wav file...

  • jolicojolico
    edited August 2020

    >

    >

  • Blue_MangooBlue_Mangoo
    edited August 2020

    @jolico said:


    In general I am suspicious of any saturation or soft clipping switch in an app that is not designed primarily as a Saturator. Saturation without aliasing is relatively difficult to design. It usually isn’t done as an afterthought or an addendum to a plugin.

    When I want a saturated sound I will use a dedicated saturation plugin.

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