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OK, I misunderstood. On its own, standalone Amplitude is exactly the same thing as Amplitude hosted in AUM. I thought you were saying it sounded different. Carry on...
I also don’t understand how Bias 2 sounds so bad but Bias Amp sounds so good. There’s noticeable latency in FX2, changing to 96khz and 256 buffer fixes it but adds more background noise. I feel like the loud amps in TH-U have less noise than the quiet ones in FX2. Also Bias Amp in AUM keeps crashing.
Excellent. Great stuff. And I will definitely check out the Taxi Drive pedal, it sounds like it is different enough than the Vanilla pedal to justify the purchase.
One of the things I do hate about guitar on iOS (which is really more of a problem of my ignorance, versus anything the fault of iOS)...despite being able to get good (and occasionally great) tones fairly easily, I never believe that I things set up properly in terms of input gain, levels, output gain, etc. I believe it was one of your videos where someone else noticed that your input level seemed high, which launched into a whole discussion about whether Overloud displayed it correctly, and where it should be in the first place. Because you're right - if the input is wrong, it's like the difference between having your guitar volume on "4" instead of "10" - you may be losing out on not just volume, but gain, definition, and sustain.
I did a number of things to sort this out. First, I switched to a different interface that gives me more control. I'm satisfied with that change, so I won't rehash that all here.
Second, I checked the input level as it was displaying in AUM, as well as Overloud. The Overloud meter - while it doesn't have any numerical values other than turning orange or going to the top of the screen - did seem consistent with the AUM readings. My first rule for setting it up is to avoid clipping at all costs. As you well know, your input can vary quite a bit from guitar to guitar. My MIM strat has H-S-S configuration, so with that guitar, I went to the bridge pickup with all guitar knobs dimed, and hit the strings hard. I set the input level so that that "spike" can't really go above -3.0 dB. That means that most of my playing ends up in a sweet spot of -3 to -10 dB.
How do you feel about that approach? Would you set it higher/lower, or do something different to calibrate? I appreciate these discussions, and you're a wealth of knowledge on these topics, so I thank you!
I spent like 3 hours with Bias FX2 and Amp, and Amplitube. there’s one glaring difference to me between them and TH-U, and that is the tightness in the low end response and clarity. FX2 on the low chords sounds like fried queefs, it’s even worse with high gain. There is an appealing squishy quality to some of the solo playing, and I like the tuner much more than Overloud’s. I just don’t get the appeal, it sounds texturally over-parted. Bias Amp actually sounds very good with the demo amps provided, but there’s no fx and it all keeps crashing switching between effects and bias? I’m just confused.
Amplitube sounds better I think, but it still doesn’t have the low end clarity of TH-U. All this being said, they all appealed to me in some way and I wouldn’t blame anymore just toggling between free demos of all these apps. There’s some good stuff there. They’re not obviously worse than the other, but can someone explain to me the appeal of the “competition”? Sorry for the OT...
I'm guessing saying you purchased in San Jose sounds as though you are implying San Jose is "Northern California"
To most native Northern Californians, the San Francisco Bay Area is "CENTRAL California." If you look at a map of the state, it becomes pretty obvious. 🙃
I live over an hour south of the California/Oregon border.
It's a four hour drive south to get to Sacramento. Driving from my home to San Jose takes 6-8 hours — depending on the traffic...
We consider anything from Sacramento north to be the true Northern California. But no worries. At least most people can properly pronounce the name of our state — unlike our neighbors in Nevada and Oregon...
At any rate, where did you find your Les Paul in San Jose? I went to undergrad school at San Jose State and loved going to Guitar Showcase.
It really messed with my head when I moved to Vancouver, BC for a while, and the area and Washington State, etc. became the "Southwest".
While you’re comparing, try v-stomp. Not AUv3, but I was enjoying it on my desktop today and I always liked the iOS app. Nice to have good sound with less options sometimes.
Yeah, I enjoy it too! What I enjoy most is how they accidentally gave the entire amps and effects pack when they launched, and I've been fortunate to remember to never "update" it and remove all the gear! 🤗
That’s exactly where I got it! I’m also a banana slug by the way. Of course I know Mt. Shasta area is very far from the Bay Area, but please accept me as your sort of Nor Cal brethren, anything to separate us from So Cal 🤣🤣 I’m not a fan of living on the east coast, I’ve always wanted to live in a town like Auburn, if I could afford it. Oh, I played a house show in Redding and Yreka once...
Cool!
Banana Slugs are always welcome! My niece just completed her PhD there...
The best part of living in San Jose was Santa Cruz/Capitola and New Brighton State Beach!
Surprised you were allowed to play in "Redneck" (our name for Redding) 😉
Buddy Guy played there a couple years ago (after winning many, many Grammies) dressed in bluejean overalls and a straw farmers hat.
He told the crowd "I've played all over California for many many decades, but this is the first time I've ever been invited the play here."
to play here.
I have numerous friends in Folsom. I visit often and really love that town! You should check it out!
Personally I don’t roll off guitar knobs ever, I like to bring all a guitar has. You have a better chance for more sustain that way. It’s better to lower the gain on your interface or the input gain in AUM instead of the guitar knobs, unless rolling off creates a specific tone with your guitar that you like. Then if your guitar is not coming in as hot rolled off you want a clean boost pedal as the next link in the chain. Anyway if your input reading in AUM is showing -3db to -10db that’s plenty loud, is that just the pure guitar signal without any amps or apps added? Is your AUM input gain at 76%? My input reading is more like -20 to -3. I would simply concentrate on setting up your interface and AUM levels with your guitar just pure direct. Once that’s set, you add in TH-U and its input gain meter should hover in the upper 1/2 but never into the top red. You can always control the output either in TH-U master volume menu, the amp’s own level, or AUM’s output. If the input is staged well, the output is easy to adjust no matter how many pedals you’re using.
@StormJH1 I forgot to add, it sounds like you’re doing the right things. The input meters in AUM and TH-U are consistent with each other. However I’m learning that the output meter is not. If your amp gain and volume and level are putting the right meter in the red, lowering the fader in AUM keeps the output in AUM from clipping but it doesn’t affect Overloud’s right meter, that one stays in the red. Still trying to figure this out but it seems like the output level of the amp should be adjusted inside Overloud so it’s a cleaner sound. The manual says the sensitivity meter in master controls affects the input signal. So inside AUM it defaults to 76% input level. I would turn ON the high quality measurement setting too. I don’t exactly know your interface or if there’s a sweet spot for its gain setting, you should play with raising the interface gain and lowering AUM’s to 50% or lowering the interface gain and setting AUM to 100%, I wonder how this will affect the input tone, I’m curious. My apogee input is too hot at minimum setting as has been established, so I have my AUM gain at 35% with high measurement on, %45 for bass. So my input reads around -18db to -12db, and my output maxes out at -3db. Looks like it’s important not to drive the output level inside Overloud either. I think you could also re-introduce you Apogee interface to see if you like the sound better, just turn down the AUM input gain to 35-40%.
I’m no expert around here, I’ve learned so much just reading the forum recently. But I do spend many nights dialing in rather than playing, and I’ve played a lot of real world gear. It’s tricky with iOS because we’re using our headphones in most cases, it’s not the same as a 50 watt amp in a club, so much more forgiving with input/output. On iOS we’re dealing with “recording studio” tone via digital emulation, so eq reshaping and frequency adjustment and compression are all present before we even play a note. What we’re playing is within the input/output signal barriers of a software, no different than a studio mic capturing a guitar amp and dealing with that signal, or playing direct via load box or preamp. We can’t let loose like with a live amp but that’s the sound we’re often after. It was a big realization that the amazing huge round tone I can achieve with an app isn’t necessarily what will sit in a mix. even just screwing around in mono isn’t as fun but it’s what matters for an initial guitar track.
One thing I love about all this is I can follow real world rules about pedal order and preamps and stuff and it can make a difference. You can break the rules but it sounds better when you follow “tradition”.
@espiegel123 I’m noticing if the amp inside Overloud is turned up using volume, level, gain, and the output meter in the right goes in the red, it of course distorts in the headphones a bit, some presets clip the output by default and have to be tuned down. But once in AUM, turning down the fader makes AUM output not clip, but it still shows red in Overloud output. So doesn’t that mean the output level inside Overloud should be set up as well before AUM, because it seems like the fader is just turning down AUM but not the output distortion in Overloud...
Some interesting bits from the TH-U desktop manual....
With 32-bit floating point DSP, there is a lot of headroom -- and meters that apps use can mean different things. So, it is possible to push signals (as long as everything is staying at 32-bit floating point) past "0 db" an renormalize before sending back out to the hardware. So, there are cases where a plugin can have a signal level "in the red" that doesn't distort as long as everything in the chain was using 32-bit floating point calcs (though there is more to the story than that).
I don't know enough to characterize in what situations you will get digital distortion (clipping) with 32-bit floating point, but some plugins clearly don't distort (one can see this by watching a sine wave in an oscilloscope) when pushed and some do.
Very good to know! When the output meter in Overloud is red, sometimes the headphones get instances of scratch and sometimes the don’t, and sometimes the sound of the amp is just boosted but other times it’s more distorted.
When you’re using the Ownhammer IRs do you usually use the mono or true stereo ones, or is it situation dependent? Just got them all into Thafknar, also owned Impulsation from before.
I use the mono ones. Since I am intending the IR just to simulate the cab and not the room.
Ok the V-stomp on iPad sounds really good! Both demo amps are impressive and the whole collection is $30? This needs more love. It works well in AUM and sounds good with outside IRs. I noticed it only works at 44.1 and 48. When AUM is switched to 88.2 and 96, V stomp sounds totally different. Anyway very happy about this find.
It’s an odd one, I got it for £10 iOS and then £10 for the complete desktop version too, I was thinking it was too good to be true at the time - but it does definitely sound great. Everything in place to be king and then seemingly abandoned just short of the coronation.
I like it now as an oasis of simplicity and pure sound. Maybe see if it comes up cheap on Black Friday?
I finally paired an Ownhammer IR (AC15/30 summary) with TH-U Singleman, Randall, a Fender rig, Nembrini Bst100, Amplitube Bassman ‘53, Vstomp, Bias FX2... I am completely floored!!! There’s a real swell as notes ring out, the release trail is real and beautiful, everything sounds tighter and more articulate, notes have more presence, there’s more air thud, big chords have so much color and harmonic fullness. There’s warm air inside the chords not just after them. I can’t believe the difference. We can go on and on about this and that, but I can say that I put the IR after a BSt100 lead preset, and I was making faces for an hour as I played. Without IRs it still sounds great, but with IRs the sound and response makes you feel feelings, delusions of grandeur, total guitar realness, guitar god shit. Ownhammer made everything sound simultaneously more present and less harsh. A veil has been lifted from the sound.
Amplitube Bassman ‘53 was completely transformed with the IR, I feel like Amplitube seems to favor the right side in its stereo field though, the other apps sound more balanced in my headphones. Maybe I need to adjust a setting. Vstomp handled the IR well, even Bias FX2 improved but honestly it was by far the worst of them. Nembrini and TH-U as AUv3 are best equipped for IRs.
I have a question though. So in AUM you can put a pedal from THU first, then a Nembrini amp, and then Thafknar. But in THU for example there are lots of complex chains where there are pedals on both sides of the cabinet. So if you turn off the cab but have Thafknar last in the chain doesn’t that change the “order”? Are we now supposed to use two half chain instances of THU and put Thafknar in between? Seems like the whole IR scenario works best just after the amp with cab bypassed, and all pedals before all this, putting another instance of thu after doesn’t sound good. But Blackhole after Thafknar sounds great... so many questions...
Try it and see. I suspect that turning the cab off in TH-U (even if it is in the middle of the chain) and adding the IR after should be fine.
Yeah it still sounds good. Adding a second instance of THU after Thafknar does not however. Even before any pedals are loaded, just the second THU signal makes everything cascade into noise and distortion.
I find that if I start my AUM chain with just THU pedals, followed by a rig or Nembrini amp, followed by Thafknar, and optional Blackhole at the end, I’m in total heaven.
This is a great sounding component and a good deal ala carte. 3 amps in 1, plus 3 different voicings, plus the cabinet emulation already baked in with additional mic settings. You get a modern fender, a sort of plexi, and a rectifier. And it sounds good, even the clean! Essentially this is THU’s attempt at a load box attenuator speaker emulation piece.
I really like those Ownhammer AC15 (1 - 12 inch speaker) and AC30 cabs (2 x 12-inch cab). I use those most of the time.
I can't remember who it was, but someone used two IRs with front and back cabinet mics and it sounded great. I thought it was with Thafknar, does anyone recall how they pulled it off?
Thats kinda funny. The SansAmp pedal was the first I ever bought. I spent so many, many hours trying and failing to dial in a sound I liked with that thing. Now it's a highly sought after component.
I'll have to dig that lil' sucker out of the bin of guitar stuff I never use anymore and give it another listen. It has all the exact same controls pictured above but in a pedal.
I think I've asked this question in other contexts, but the critical thing with FX loops is simply to get certain effects after the preamp stage so that they aren't then applying the effect to a gain-laden signal. Cab sims or impulse response cabinets, I am told, behave just fine if you put them after the preamp but before a cab simulation.
When I use AUM delays and reverbs, I go Overloud (cab sim off) --> Delay --> Reverb --> Thafknar (IR Cab) --> Output. But obviously if I am using a patch with delay and reverb (or modulation or whatever) from Overloud, then the effects are between the preamp and IR/cab in that case, but it seems to work fine.
Oh I mean using two instances of THU to separate pre and post pedals and place an amp/IR in between, not two instances of Thaf. Doing two Thaf should work fine, I think @Daveypoo explained the routing. Just like i the real world where you can mic a cab thrice or whatever, you should be able to stick in several Thafknars I’d assume...
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Tech-21/SansAmp-GT2-Tube-Amp-Emulator-1273887990675.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq4KGq4OF7AIViYbACh0Vtgv_EAQYByABEgJW4vD_BwE
Yeah, it's 100% just a clone of the Tech21 SansAmp. I believe it came out in 1989 (the classic model was more complicated and had all sorts of DIP switches), but was considered sort of revolutionary because it was a solid state/transistor unit that did a form of cabinet emulation (and "modeled" 3 different amps). There were also rack units (and they even built one into the preamp of their own combo amp, which I briefly owned, called the Trademark 10/30/60). It's primitive in light of what we got for modelers in 2000 and beyond, but had some very useable tones.
I recall Agile AmpKit had a model of the SansAmp and maybe a few other iOS apps here and there.