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Comments
It's the kind of clipping you get when the sample start time is too deep into an active waveform. This this instrument uses the "monolith" approach of including all the samples
in a single audio file I suspect it's a programming bug in the Decent Sampler IOS code.
I don't get here it in the MacBook OS X Decent Sampler from the same downloaded Zip.
It's too bad. I'll ping the Decent Sampler folks after I hear from my first request on the
"It won't load in IOS from PianoBook for the Claustrophic Piano."
It seems to be an issue with polyphony. If you play more than two notes at a time to the same instance, you get the clicking sound. If you have two instances of the same instrument but send two notes to one instance and two to another, the clicking stops. Used the Bach Fugue from Fugue Machine as a MIDI source for the testing. Reducing the volumes did nothing to reduce the clicking whereas two instances with the MIDI output split at the default higher volume didn’t produce clicking.
I think these results are consistent with your monolith waveform theory too.
On my iPad Air 3 in AUM, you have to manually load in each instance because the second one will never load if you try to do so from an AUM project.
I think this instrument pushes the poor IOS Decent Sampler to it's limits. But I do have so many other pianos it's not a big thing. I do like a lot of the more unique PianoBook instruments that are small in size like the Kalimba, Wine Glasses, Kitchen Instruments etc.
For rock solid sampling on IOS AudioLayer continues to shine.
Yes, this instrument was designed for macOS and doesn’t work so well on an iPad with less ram to buffer this. It would be interesting to see if the samples were distributed into smaller files on iOS if that would significantly improve its playability.
While I like AudioLayer, I think it’s unfair to knock DecentSampler based upon this particular instrument before trying to see if it could be customized for iPadOS.
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
(silence)
(opens the door)
(steps out to look down the street)
notices he's now standing in a bag of shit
Sorry Decent Sampler... please tune for IOS hardware. We love free shit.
I love some of the pianobook instruments but DS constantly lets me down with the memory thing, I’m tempted to spend some time loading the samples into audiolayer... I’ll need to learn that first though 😃
Sweet! Thank ya
Has anyone compared the resource usage of big instruments ( 1 gigabyte pianos like Salamander, for instance) in DS and AudioLayer?
How would you do that... I know there are Salamander packages in SF2 format and maybe SFZ (I forget). AudioLayer imports SFZ so there must be.
Decent Sampler has it's own formats/metafile (I haven't watched the video). I supports the
Monolith sample file format as a deliverable.
I don't see common ground and experience tells me AudioLayer is optimized for IOS and
Decent Sampler is not.
I feel the question is answered. But someone will tackle a more data driven answer.
Meanwhile, Claustrophobic piano which rides on an 800MB Monolith "clicks". AudioLayer
never clicks... but it can crash but I can use it's interface to throw away samples and achieve
the stability I desire. I'd love a tool to chop Monoliths into *.wav's so I can reduce the 3 level
round robin to 2 and test it again and on to 1 if need be.
Maybe @coniferprod will mod SynthJacker to slice Monoliths.
Multiple passes through Koala's auto-chop might get the job done. I tried
an octave and the samples still needed a little hand work but it's doable.
Then I import the samples out of Koala into AudioLayer using pitch detection
in lieu of metadata or file naming clues. Worked OK. But we'd each have to do this for ourself to respect Christian's license, I think.
As an exercise to verify that DecentSampler would work with a more traditional file structure for the audio files, I replaced the one audio sample file for the KU100 piano with 218 sample files by deleting all of the start end code in the dspreset and specifying the path to the appropriate files created by chopping up the single original audio file. I learned a lot in the process, so despite being a tedious process, the restructured instrument performed as I’d hoped it would without producing clicks as it had before.
The original audio sample file was so large that it crashed Auditor before it could even open. I was able to separate the original in TwistedWave into 5 component audio samples. In auditor, I manually sliced each of the component audio samples to come up with the 218 sample files. There’s no way auto slicing would have given me the precision needed to preserve the fidelity of the samples needed for recreating the instrument.
DecentSampler on iPadOS works well provided the instruments are designed with the limitations of the iPad in mind. I’ve attached a copy of an xml version of the revised dspreset for the instrument. The curious can see what it looks like in a text editor.
It is not surprising that an instrument designed to work on desktop computers which have significantly more ram to work with could handle the monolithic sample file whereas the iPad could not. The developer of DecentSampler has mentioned that he is planning to come up with an iPadOS/iOS app to enable users to create DecentSampler instruments with. In the meantime, he provided documentation on how to create dspresets and dslibraries if we want to.
Perhaps at some point there will be support for being able to convert pianobook.com.uk DecentSampler instruments into useable dslibraries for iPads. In the meantime, very large monolithic sample files aren’t likely to work very well or at all if they’re the size of the ones in the Claustrophobic Piano collection.
Hmm using the claustrophobic piano Zip file from Pianobook is causing DS to crash in AUM, in apeMatrix etc... however somehow Drambo is able to load and handle the zip file containing the three different microphone presets.
So basically the question: why? Wharves doing Drambo better than all the other hosts?
iPad 2018 pro latest iOS I think.
And: is there a way to make three different dslibrary files for each preset? That would be a workaround. But I am not sure which file to pack into the zip file.
Tips hat!
Probably stating the obvious by now, but the monolith method is designed to reduce the time spent on that tedious process for the instrument developer. I've probably edited 10's of 1000's of sample files just this year. It's very tedious...
Trouble with the monolith method though, imho, is that you're basically pushing that tedious process downstream - to your sampler. So it's got to load larger files, figure out where notes start and end and so on. It needs to chop them all up - and doing this all in RAM. And the same applies to stuff like cross-fading loops for sustained sounds - that's not a trivial thing CPU-wise if you're furiously mashing out chords with 16 note polyphony.
That's great if you're running Kontakt (maybe a decade's worth of code optimisation?) on an M1 Mac. Not so great if you're running 6 instruments in AUM on an older iPad...
FWIW, when I'm designing sample-based instruments for iOS I do as much of that tedious stuff as I can up-front. Even creating seamless loops with the cross-fades already done. All the sampler then has to do is play back the sample file at the correct pitch.
And as also suggested, (sort of) it's a case of taking stuff away (less round robins, less velocity layers, less actual samples) until it's no longer convincing or sounds good, then put some of it back till it sounds "OK"
So... maybe not so much a case of tuning the sampler for iOS, but tuning the instrument for iOS instead.
My €0.02
This is great stuff and I totally agree. I think many people don’t appreciate just how much work goes into trying to optimize apps including the GUI, data/samples, presets, and for your app in particular how you’ve created some great custom instruments with minimalist controls. There’s been a long history with personal computing where users and developers will always find ways to push things to their limits despite continuous advances in all aspects of hardware and software. Convenience often comes at the expense of using your device’s resources in a wasteful way. The trade offs between efficiency and the practical constraints of how much time and energy it takes to achieve it will be an ongoing trade off especially as many users have developed unrealistic expectations because they’re disconnected from the nitty gritty details of the process. Trying to do some scripting and coding for things like DecentSampler or Mozaic helps me to have a bit more of an appreciation for the work others have been doing to provide us with the cornucopia of musical tools available to us.
Sometimes the short cuts can be as simple as how long your samples are. Is it really necessary to have 18 second samples per note? Of course if the sample instrument creators spent all of their time fine tuning the samples they’ve recorded, they wouldn’t be able to create as many instruments either. I think the solution revolves around how many people are invested in creating musical tools and how much support they receive to do so. The proportion of feature requests to contributions will correlate strongly with what’s possible to accomplish.
@Paulinko : did the monolith audio file have markers in it?
Yes it did, plus the start and end markers for each line in each group for the dspreset lets you and the DecentSampler app know exactly where each sample was located in the monolith audio file down to the audio sample level even if the monolith audio file had no markers whatsoever. As you can see, this monolith file was over 45 minutes long.
Hello, I’m testing it with my new iPad Pro m1 with 8gig, and it still crashes with claustrophobic piano in AUM. It works quite good in stand-alone, it would be nice if it were inter app, so I could sample it into audiolayer. Bit frustrated here….
I got it to work, I lowered the buffer size just a little, and now it works as auv3. The samples in claustrophobic piano are huge, so it’s many not strange it became a problem
The M1 drives easy the max amount of Pure pianos (i think 4) simultaneously
Had a setback with claustrophobic on M1 too. Reducing the buffer will do the trick tho
i bought instruments for ios. i’d like to play them on my desktop in ableton.
how can i get my cups and the rest on desktop without paying a second time ?
Anyone able to get DS to work on any of the iPad OS 15 Betas? On my 2018 12.9 iPadPro it doesn’t work stand alone and crashes immediately, but it will load as an AUV3 in my daws; the problem is i can’t download any of the instruments.
On my iPhone XR with same Beta DS works fully and can download left and right.
I was trying to contact the dev, but couldn’t find info. I thought there was a DS site and forum but could not find it a second time around.
Any leads?
Is DS the one that Jurgen Mosgraber has turned his gaze upon?
https://www.decentsamples.com/product/decent-sampler-plugin/
Version 1.2.3 is out:
controlas well aslabeled_knobThank you to everyone who has reported bugs. I really am reading all of the emails even if I don’t reply immediately.
This app is unusable for me in current state. I briefly heard the sound of samples and really liked it but mostly this sampler loading something or crashing.
.
That's odd. Works fine for me both stand alone and in e.g AUM. iOS 15.01 iPad Pro 2021.
I use the app a lot, there are some wonderful sounds on pianobook plus everything's free.
There was an issue with the last release a week or so ago where it crashed while loading presets that had more than one variation (quite a few pianobook presets are like this).
I reported it to them and it was fixed the next day in v1.2.6. Maybe that's the issue you had?
Is this your app?!
That’s great that your experience is better. My iPad is pretty old, so it must be it
No, I just posted the info about the update 😊