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Ok, cool - sounds promising - thanks for this insight ...
So my next question to myself - get the M1 Air now or wait for the next generation ... hm, lets see how I will decide ...
Today I bought a new MacBook Pro 13" with M1 CPU, and, for me there's was not any kind of problem to install all kind of iPad-apps on my MacBook Pro thru iMazing app...
I extracted from my iPad Pro 12.9" 2020 edition - Beatmaker 3, Nanostudio 2, Gadget 2.x, Korg M1 etc etc...
Everything installed on my iPad can be installed on my Mac!
One thing that was a problem is IAP in Korg Gadget - I couldn't restore all my purchases into Gadget - it seems to not work there...
I installed Auria Pro, and there every IAP works and installed well...
Most impressed app to use on my MacBook Pro is Procreate (the paint app) - it's running in full screen and every functionalities works super!
Awesome sound thru the speakers on my new MacBook Pro also! Korg M1 sounds incredible!
Most apps works at least standalone really good and Drambo is especially delicious with resizable window.
There seems also no automation parameters inside Logic, so the iOS AUv3 are a bit limited so I will stick to native Mac plug-ins.
What is also nice is that I just can copy all these apps to my extern SSD and start from there. So my intern SSD stays free and so I can go a long way with the 512 GB (from which are just about 494 usable).
I also wondered how great these little speakers sounds and large reverbs sound really great trough it.
Not as great as the 16" because these are the best speakers I ever heard from a laptop, almost like a good soundbar.
I made some RAM and CPU stress tests and so far this little machine just performs superb and just get a little warm here and there. Still no fan noise to hear while doing audio productions.
Finally I can run dozens of Keyscape, Omnisphere, Spitfire instances, including very heavy on cpu FX on top.
Even U-he was surprised that this M1 can handle so much voices with DIVA (if multi-core is NOT enabled, but anyway they are close to an ARM native version).
A quote from another forum:
"We're going to post our benchmarks shortly.
On the MBP with M1 processor, Diva on Rosetta2 plays 120 voices - if MultiCore is turned off. That's a magnitude as much as a 2015 MBP with Intel i7. However, with Multicore turned on, drop outs appear at 30 voices already. Luckily, the M1 is so powerful, there is no need for Multicore. A single core can easily handle Diva's full polyphony at best setting. Using Rosetta.
We expect our native builds to perform better, particularly as we're going to support the new multithreading paradigm for audio plug-ins. Those builds are coming a long nicely, a first beta should be available in a few weeks."
So far not everything is perfect but this is a great machine for audio for me so far.
[...]
This is really intriguing. It's going to be telling to know how much better the dropout situation gets when they move to using the new threading API. If these dropout issues start to happen when some of the secondary threads get pushed on to a little core, then the new API could be really helpful with a pretty major performance boost.
Yeah, I agree. These things are really good for audio use. It is so nice to have all this power and never hear a fan. All of the dev tools are coming into place much faster than I expected. I did a source build for MoltenVK a couple of days ago and was surprised to have it actually work. I think that yesterday they announced the official release. Docker announced support already. Qemu is already working. Everything I need from MacPorts is working now. It's all coming together very fast. These are going to be great development machines, especially for audio.
Ok.. since Drambo runs on an M1 Mac... and now supports AU hosting... has anyone tried it out yet on the M1? Are there many AUv3s that actually work while hosted in Drambo on an M1 machine?
@Jocphone
Yes, but its not prime time. AUv3 crash or GUI is not working. Mostly seems also related to scrolling like iOS AUv3 inside Logic.
I also tried now again to load Zeeon and while it works some days ago, now it says "not compatible" and will not open, even if I still can download it from the Mac store.
So its a mixed bag and I would not set to much hopes in running smooth iOS audio apps yet.
Drambo standalone works great and you can see and load AUv3 but it seems no AUv3 working there.
Unfortunately I see the the same @skiphunt - Standalone is great but AUv3 hosting on M1 isn't there yet. Various weird issues like, buttons not working, DigiKeys grid highlights dump hits offset by a few instruments but the sync with host button doesn't work anyway. Early days, I would say stick with standalone for Drambo's own instruments for now.
What I can see just now is that is only three apps that I installed from my iPad Pro 12.9" 2020 that can run in fullscreen - Procreate, Drambo and Thumbjam (old classic app that starts the revolution on iOS!)...
As a beginning I'm impressed by Apple and the work they have done into the new MacOS and the M1 CPU!
The battery drain on my 13" MacBook Pro is incredible low!
And, I bought only 8GB RAM (every 16GB machine in Sweden are unavailable just now and four weeks delivery time)...
But, I'm fuckin' impressed what this machine can do with just 8GB RAM - but, in the same time, our beloved iPads can run smooth with only 4 or 6GB RAM so I'm not surprised ...
Also, I noticed after a bit of playing, that the little modulation triangles don't work in the standalone.
Yes it sounds like from feedback there's been a lot of hype over the ios apps on M1 but barely any will run properly unless officially supported. I don't think devs who already have desktop versions out will worry too much about sideloading of ios versions. You still need to purchase the desktop versions if you want the Mac experience unless they decide to make them universal.
So I think it's a feature to watch and see who supports it, but I'm not rushing to buy an M1 for this feature. Gonna wait now until next year or two to see how the M1s develop.
From my perspective Apple have created a slightly different class of mobile laptop/desktop which has advantages and disadvantages for working with compared to x86 but it doesn't replace it. But it also won't encroach on the iPad, I think Apple will make sure they are sufficiently different experiences.
I mean it was anyway more of an added bonus and not the main feature. So you still go better for native Mac plug-ins, especially for deep integration, exposed automation parameter etc. for Logic and other DAWs.
But anyway there might be just a few iOS apps I really want on Mac, otherwise the native Mac versions or only Mac version anyway offers more if you are working on a Mac. Still nice to have.
The good thing is so far now I installed all things I had before and beside Native Access (but N.I. seems close to a beta for M1 devices to authorise/install N.I. plug-ins from a post).
I would say 95% of all my tools working now and good the the ones not working are the least important to me.
I mean I also even did not installed everything since I already have too much bloat.
Logic alone has now so much superb content that it covers almost all I ever need beside some of the better sample libraries. I also still use some third party FX and synth plug-ins but the truth is that even that is more of a bonus since I could live almost with Logic alone these days.
That means I think I really will stop to buy any new things beside it is really something special AND comes as native ARM build for M1 (and next M chips).
Finally i reached saturation and this little M1 machine delivers the power I ever wanted inside such a small box to drive that all and it just can get better if optimised apps will come out (there're already a good bunch).
I was a bit sceptic about the size and not sure if I will still go for a 16" in the future but I also learned to love the form factor and reduced weight compared to my old 15.4".
Great that the keyboard again is good too, as good as on my old one. Its important for me since I love to use the computer keyboard as midi input.
I also really really love the Touch Bar, especially for use with audio apps its very useful for me and also a reason (beside the better mic, speakers, fan, screen, battery) to go for a pro instead on an air.
I guess things about iOS apps on Mac also might get working but its more of a Frankenstein experiment for now i will leave.
Thanks for the feedback @Clueless & @Jocphone
I think I'm just looking for more excuses to buy a new mini M1. I'm trying to resist because I'm curious what they'll announce after the first of the year in the way of a newly designed MBP M1 14in, etc.
I don't recall what their product cycles are though. I'm guessing if they have more M1 goodness soon... it likely wouldn't even be shipping until Spring anyway. I suppose that as long as I get the low end mini, I'll likely still be able to recoup a fair chunk back as used in 6 months.
They usually sit on fairly regular product cycles. So, if you go and look at the pattern for when they released a certain model in the past, it'll probably have a similar release pattern in the future. Unfortunately, that hasn't been true lately. As Intel got worse-and-worse at delivering reasonable upgrades to their chips, Apple's dev cycles got longer and more sporadic. So, It's hard to tell now based on the last few years.
But, There is a pattern that makes sense for how they are going to release this first gen of Apple Silicon Macs. The Air and the Mini were the obvious first choices. The Air because it was the computer that they built the M1 for. Light weight and completely silent with a really long battery life is the Air they've wanted for a long time. The Mini because they often use the Mini as a developer/switcher platform. It's basically what the Mini was made for. The entry level MBP was a surprise to me. I kinda think they did it just because they could.
For the next line of Macs up, the 21" and maybe 27" iMac level, they are going to need more ports available and probably more RAM possible. TSMC seems to be completely maxed on production now with the iPhone, M1, and AMD stuff for the XBox and PS5. So, I'm guessing early Spring for the iMacs. Maybe the higher level 13" MBP will come then too. WWDC in early Summer would be the perfect time for them to release the 16" MBP. There are rumors of a smaller Mac Pro too. WWDC would be the time for this too. I doubt if they'll release the big Mac Pro during the next year. They are going to need to make a huge chip for that thing with tons of accelerators for video and graphics. This is doable with Arm now, checkout the beast of an Arm processor that Fujitsu has in their supercomputers, but I think that it's going to take Apple some time before they can get this down to a cost and yield where they can use them in something like the pro. I'm guessing that they'll normalize to a more-or-less yearly cycle after that with the real "Pro" level machines released around WWDC.
Also be aware, since there are some reports about bluetooth issues, wifi, extern usb speed, I tested it a bit more.
Bluetooth was fine mostly but my Seaboard Rise will disconnect if I use MPE mode and play a lot midi notes with lots of polyphonic modulations but I had the same problem with my old MacBook Pro late 2013. So not sure if its in general just too much midi traffic via bluetooth or both machines suffers from the same or the Seaboard is the joy killer here. In "normal" piano mode it works fine. Other bluetooth connections also seems stable so far.
Wifi: No issues here so far I could complain about.
Speed for extern SSD: Indeed, here I was a bit disappointed.
I tested now also the SSD speeds and yes, sadly I can confirm that on my late 2013 MacBook Pro my extern SSD (Samsung T5, format is APFS) has about 358MB/s write and 421MB/s read while on my brand new M1 MacBook Pro I get 307MB/s write and 384MB/s read.
Maybe I have should gone for the maxed out intern SSD with 2 TB since my old was just
681MB/s write and 709MB/s read compared to the new M1 with 2870MB/s write and 2869MB/s read.
I hoped at least the new could get the max out of the T5 which should be over 500MB/s.
Lets hope its a software thing.
You don't need any 3rd party to install your Apps on the Mac - just open up the Mac App Store, click on your profile picture, then switch to the iPhone & iPad Apps tab. Some apps don't show up automatically in that list (for me anyway), just do a search from this same page - you'll have to toggle to the iPhone & iPad Apps tab after any search.
Yes but you only will see the apps which are not opted out. With third party tools you just can install ALL your bought iOS apps, even if the developers opted out for the Mac.
That could be handy - do they also keep track of the updates? That could be a lot of extra effort to keep track of. I'm gonna stick with the Apps that haven't opted out I guess - though I'm afraid that number may rise, sooner than fall. So far I've had more luck with IAA apps like Elastic Drums. HBO Max app also is a surprise and quite handy. Is there a list of Apps that have opted in, or out?
I had some really bad issues with WIFI. It turned out to be interference from the wireless dongle for the Logitech trackball I have on the thing. I moved the dongle thing to a USB 3 hub I've got and all the WIFI issues are gone. I'm getting really good Bluetooth and WIFI on the Mini. I have the keyboard completely across the room and it works perfectly. I have a very good M.2 NVME drive in a really bad USB enclosure on the Mini. I get 540 and 475 MB/s from it connected directly to the USB-C port. I have the same M.2 drive in my main iMac dev machine in a pretty cheap Thunderbolt enclosure. That gets around 2k MBs both read and write. I haven't tried the Thunderbolt drive on the Mini yet so I don't know for sure how fast it is there, but I plan on getting a Thunderbolt enclosure to move the Mini's drive to at some point. They really do fly.
But that is again a thing i will not do, use more external dongles/hardware as needed.
As happy as i was i begin to see some not great things here and there. Some are minor but some are also a step back compared to a 7 years old machine, which feels weird.
Maybe i was too euphoric and rethink what is important for me right now, save the money and go for a maxed out 16“ next year instead.
I have still about 3 weeks time to decide (which is a great move from Apple to give me that much time, maybe they give us guinea pigs something here, lol).
Many apps has problem with installing IAP into the apps, like Korg Module, Korg Gadget, Korg M1 etc...
In the same time, other apps like Drumjam can indtall the earlier bought IAP-drum samples...
Any clue on that guys?
Thx!
I think I’ll go for the lowest initial investment with the mini M1. Whatever comes out next that’s next tier, is likely gonna be over $2k+ base model. I think I’d rather wait just until the new ARM machine mature a little bit before I spend that much. The mini won’t likely be updated again for another year, so selling it off for minimal loss should be decent for the next year.
How has your experience been to date? Still impressed now that you’ve now spent more time with it? Do you wish you’d gone for the 16GB?
I feel much the same. I'm looking at the Mini I have now as at worst a massively overpowered Apple TV if I end up thinking I need something new in a year or two. That's a big part of why I went with the cheapest option.
I'm still really impressed by the thing. I've done some really big compiles on it running parallel builds of LLVM and similar. I still haven't heard the fan kick on.
For what I use it for, moderate audio stuff and development, the 8GB is plenty. I haven't seen a slowdown due to RAM crunch yet. I have doubts still that it could handle heavy video editing in only 8GB. I have seen reports that it can, but that doesn't feel all that plausible.
This would be good
But, in the same time, everything can be installed, and can be executed on Mac M1, so, what’s the problem here?
For me the problem is that IAP don’t work in some of the most important apps (all from Korg as an example), but, perhaps there is an solution on that (some disk allowence problem?)...
Some progress forward now with iPad apps on the new Macbook Pro with M1 CPU - the new Big Sur 11.1 that was released this week has improved the iPad app experience on Mac, now all apps can be full screen and the touch simulations have new commands... Good!
Also, now at least, the IAP on Korgs apps (Gadget, Module, iM1 etc) now starts the restore of IAP (show percentmeter), but, it stucks at 80% and never get ready - earlier nothing happening, so it’s an improvment ;-)
The negative - it seems like some apps has some start restriction built in from Big Sur update - the Affinity apps Photo & Designer doesnt start at all, no GUI or message is coming up...
The good thing is that MIDI works great when running iPad apps... Great sound also from several music making apps...
Native Instruments have released a beta version of Native Access that enables us to install their software except Massive X (Not iOS)
https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014683497?_ga=2.107187906.1144786155.1608145388-590820140.1605547781
I know, thank you. I installed all my Kontakt libraries and all is working fine so far. Great. Now I have everything running again. Now I can stress test my MacBook with my favourite Kontakt libraries to see how far I can go with the 16GB RAM.
Not sure if anyone else reported this but GE Labs (amp sims and effects) seems to work perfectly in standalone mode on an M1 Air. Unfortunately, Gain Stage Vintage Clean crashes Logic's plugin validation.
Apple's auvaltool seems to be very confused right now when trying to run on iOS AUv3's. I have several AU's that I've written that I know use exactly them same interface code that auvaltool should be using. All of them but one pass with no problems. One gets rejected every time no matter what I do. Auvaltool doesn't actually use most of the AU parameters that I've set in the interface that it is supposed to test.
For all of the iOS AU's I've tested, as long as I only use them in stereo-stereo mode, if I tell Logic to use them anyway after they fail validation, they work. By work, I mean the audio works and I stay away from scrolling gestures which will crash the host.
Thanks @NeonSilicon. I've tried a few and none of them worked right as Logic plugins. Either they failed validation or if they didn't, they were otherwise dysfunctional. Zenbeats (Mac) didn't like them, either. Some, like GE Labs, the Lumbeats drummers, and Elliott Garage apps seem to be okay running standalone.